# Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread - Part Deux! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [July 18, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410 "2019-07-18T19:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 139
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2830 "2019-08-30T13:36:24Z")
> [@Chequrself](#): > > It seems to me that you have bought into this idea that bots are ruining the eve world. I remain unconvinced of this assumption. Why? Because botters have been part of eve for as long as I can remember. And despite them the market has ticked along traders have traded and industrialists have been industrial all the same. You have been conned into thinking that the way the market has ticked along all this time is normal. Example: The isk that a ship manufacturer received should never have existed. It could have been farmed by a Bot and then exchanged for a ship. That same ship is sold on the internet for RL cash and then they meet in space where the RL cash trader will eject from the ship and allow the buyer to get in the ship and fly away. Can you not see there have been many transactions like this over the years? A lot of it is fake and we should never be quick to believe that what we see is a true depiction of a player driven market. It will be interesting to see how the market looks now that the null sec bots have been served a crippling blow, I look forward to a data presentation on this. ---
**Author:** ![Chequrself](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chequrself/32/244301_2.png) [@Chequrself](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chequrself)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2831 "2019-08-30T13:45:13Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Example: The isk that a ship manufacturer received should never have existed. It could have been farmed by a Bot and then exchanged for a ship. That same ship is sold on the internet for RL cash and then they meet in space where the RL cash trader will eject from the ship and allow the buyer to get in the ship and fly away. So I have many ingame friends that are industrialists, for them that sale is real. They receive the isk and move on to the next project. Early on in my eve career I wondered how people could sell tritanium so cheap it seemed to me to be a waste of time when level 3 missions paid more. But I was glad that trit sold for 2isk/unit when I went to build something and I am sure it wasn’t players that mined that. CCP is always talking about how they want to make life easier on new players. Imagine a world without bots how expensive faction items will become. Is that making life easier for new players? Mark\_Marconi is constantly going on about the isk rewards in null can you imagine what they would be without bots. Now I know this sounds like I am a bot advocate but I firmly state that I am not. I am a realist. There will always be bots. They will always adapt. That is what they do. It is better to accept this and balance the game around that then trying to slay a dragon that will never die. And regardless of the sale type you mentioned guess what. The marketeers still traded and the industrialists still built stuff and the pvpers still blew that stuff up. Aaron mate you are getting upset about something that will never change. This is an exercise in futility. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2832 "2019-08-30T13:47:58Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > You maybe right about bots moving to another area of the game and this might be a good thing. If we got them on the run they they may make mistakes which could make it easier for them to be identified and banned. It seems you are in the dream world you didn’t read what I said and can only focus on your inability to play the game like you did pre-blackout @Nolan_Kadoo. It should be reasonably easy for CCP to find out what accounts log in to only sit by a jump gate in a pod. As I said if bots have to revise their position then it could make them easier to identify. ---
**Author:** ![Nolan\_Kadoo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nolan_kadoo/32/158133_2.png) [@Nolan\_Kadoo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nolan_Kadoo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2833 "2019-08-30T13:56:33Z")
Dear Aaron, I think blackout is a good idea for nullsec, the players got “lazy” and “fat” there, because of high reward - low risk environment. Local should never been in nullsec. I pointed on your dreaming the bots will disappear just because of no local. This is no how programmers are working. They love challenges and problems. Blackout is just a problem. And they solve it as you can read on the reddit post. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2834 "2019-08-30T13:56:56Z")
> [@Chequrself](#): > > And regardless of the sale type you mentioned guess what. The marketeers still traded and the industrialists still built stuff and the pvpers still blew that stuff up. Yes of course, in some/many cases people paid RL cash for a botter/RMT’er to buy the ship on their behalf. Where there’s a demand there will always be someone who can supply. > [@Chequrself](#): > > Aaron mate you are getting upset about something that will never change. This is an exercise in futility. I’m not upset I just like order and legitimacy , I also like to chat with straight talkers who understand whats going on. ---
**Author:** ![Chequrself](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chequrself/32/244301_2.png) [@Chequrself](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chequrself)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2835 "2019-08-30T14:02:56Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I’m not upset I just like order and legitimacy Dude I get it, it’s just that I think that, in this instance, this can’t be achieved without paying a cost that is not worth paying. Look at the stats of logins, I don’t believe that the drop in numbers is bots. If anything botters probably subscribed more accounts to sit on gate overwatch. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2836 "2019-08-30T14:03:33Z")
I said “bot’s might be gone from null” i also pointed out they could well have moved to other activities and will have to revise their position which could make them easier to identify. It doesn’t seem like I’m the dreamer here, you are the dreamer for thinking Eve will/should go back to being easy again. ---
**Author:** ![bluechimera](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluechimera/32/374467_2.png) [@bluechimera](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluechimera)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2837 "2019-08-30T14:05:36Z")
as a result, simple players in small groups that either went to high sec or went to another game and there were so many who left the game suffered. ---
**Author:** ![Nolan\_Kadoo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nolan_kadoo/32/158133_2.png) [@Nolan\_Kadoo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nolan_Kadoo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2838 "2019-08-30T14:12:05Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > It doesn’t seem like I’m the dreamer here, you are the dreamer for thinking Eve will/should go back to being easy again. And where exactly did I say this? ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2839 "2019-08-30T14:14:29Z")
According to the link you provided botters now have to have an account watching the gate and 4 accounts to do the actual ratting in myrms. That’s extra cost and effort which will hopefully push the price of illegitimate isk sky high and make it less attractive to people who buy isk off the internet. The blackout has made them revise their operation and made it more expensive to operate as a bot. This does deserve some applaud. Did you have any thought on banning the paypal account or credit card used to pay for the bot account? Do you think this would have an effect? ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2840 "2019-08-30T14:16:15Z")
> [@Nolan\_Kadoo](#): > > And where exactly did I say this? > [@Nolan\_Kadoo](#): > > Blackout is just a problem. You said blackout is a problem, it seems you want the black out gone and things returned to “normal” ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2841 "2019-08-30T14:16:34Z")
Things wear off. Just as the Blackout hype, also the SP diarrhea does too. The log numbers, when inspected on a polluted background, mean nothing. The logins was the first metric slapped on the table at the beginning of the first Blackout interview. That was an absolute no-no. A huge mishap from any CCP representative and an insult to the intelligence of players. The logins were artificially inflated by promotions. they should be discarded as background for this discussion and CCP representatives should be singled out and questioned for bringing it up. What a crapscade of absolute BS! ---
**Author:** ![Nidnoi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nidnoi/32/156334_2.png) [@Nidnoi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nidnoi)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2842 "2019-08-30T14:21:47Z")
PLEX and ISK killed the game!!! CCP need to make game time, ships and modules purchased from CCP store with cash only. Then they can laugh all the way to Swiss bank. Oh-wait, that wont work. Not only Bots will leave the game so does the people that leaves in their mother basement will leave the game as well. No win here ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2843 "2019-08-30T14:25:41Z")
> [@Nidnoi](#): > > PLEX and ISK killed the game Plex was needed, it started off as GTC trading on forums which seemed to work ok as it kept the money in game and affected RMT. You would buy a game time code and sell it on forums for approx 700 million, I think this stopped lots of people buying isk off of internet. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2844 "2019-08-30T14:43:30Z")
> [@Nidnoi](#): > > PLEX and ISK killed the game!!! Among other things, yes. And that is what the “chaos era” was all about. An opportunity to roll back everything wrong. But if we see the current situation, with numbers on a steep downhill… could it be that the incoming cyno changes are part of the chaos but _within_ the BO? that the cyno is sort of rushed in to alleviate the negative effects of BO? I tried to speculate about it but after pondering it, the answer is no. Then, what happens with the cyno changes if the BO is removed? THAT is the right question IMHO. So far, when trying to imagine such scenario, I can see that it may work but to keep most peeps at bay, there should be a tweak on the BO itself, not a total removal. That tweak is hard! Not gonna happen. Not when the system itself is failing as we’re experiencing with comms’ erratic behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Ikki\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ikki_phoenix/32/391105_2.png) [@Ikki\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ikki_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2845 "2019-08-30T16:56:33Z")
@Mark_Marconi , any stats released by CCP is BS due to all the SP propaganda. Anything CCP said on the interviews, I would suggest to consider as lie for the simple reason that CCP was not challenged by TiS. In short, TiS basically spent their interviews kissing CCP behind. @Aaron coders are able to modify their bots without problems, and bots are not leaving. They are changing location, however real players are quitting ---
**Author:** ![Maria\_Dragoon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maria_dragoon/32/176816_2.png) [@Maria\_Dragoon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maria_Dragoon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2846 "2019-08-30T17:29:57Z")
> [@Ikki\_Phoenix](#): > > coders are able to modify their bots without problems, and bots are not leaving. They are changing location, however real players are quitting You have proof of this correct? ---
**Author:** ![Nidnoi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nidnoi/32/156334_2.png) [@Nidnoi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nidnoi)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2847 "2019-08-30T17:46:25Z")
Ummm Looking at Discord on my cellphone. There are 11 Corp members on. 7 of them showing playing “something Classic” game 🙂 1 playing EVE Online 3 are showing at work or out and about playing nothing. The rest hasn’t log in Discrod or EVE, MIA. Who k owns, they might be playing “something classic” right about now. Don’t have to look far to see people aren’t logging on to play EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2848 "2019-08-30T18:20:39Z")
> [@Ikki\_Phoenix](#): > > @Aaron coders are able to modify their bots without problems, and bots are not leaving. They are changing location, however real players are quitting They have some problems. Programs rely on Events. The event that helped botters was local chat changing. There’s no modification to code a bot to monitor local chat if local chat is gone. The botters seem to be able to code bots that watch for graphical changes on screen near gates. It could be that the botters are multiboxing and using some sort of botting program that monitors multiple accounts. You’re correct the bots are not leaving but they have been affected and they are not as efficient. I think the null sec players are in a state of denial and very soon they will start to team up in groups of 4 Battlecruisers and go back to doing combat sites. It should be possible for skilled pilots in Battlecruisers to keep aligned and warp out if a blops attack happens. 1 or 2 of the 4 battlecruisers may get destroyed but with a good ship replacement program it should be ok. A good method would be to quickly create tactical bookmarks for the combat site the group is about to do. The bookmarks should be about 100km away from centre of the site in about 5 or 6 different directions that are away from warp in points from gates and other bodies. A covert cyno ship who is there to blops you will have to slowboat toward you which will take a little time so the ratting team will have to warp to the tactical bookmarks in order and stay ahead of the , by the time the team gets to the last bookmark hopefully the site will be complete and they can move to a new one. People shouldn’t leave they should adapt. ---
**Author:** ![bluechimera](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluechimera/32/374467_2.png) [@bluechimera](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluechimera)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2849 "2019-08-30T19:42:43Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Я думаю, что игроки с нулевой секундой находятся в состоянии отказа, и очень скоро они начнут объединяться в группы из 4 линейных крейсеров и вернутся к участию в боевых действиях. Для опытных пилотов в Battlecruisers должна быть возможность выровняться и деформироваться, если произойдет атака с блупсом. 1 или 2 из 4 линейных крейсеров могут быть уничтожены, но с хорошей программой замены корабля все должно быть в порядке. I think that you carry garbage and don’t know a damn thing about null seconds and how to live there and how much you earn what you say without straining in high second to earn risk-free ship or battle ship for 2 billion .The null sectors are already a little bit lifeless and there will remain a couple of large alliances and not many people in high seconds. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=138) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=140)