# Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread - Part Deux! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [July 18, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410 "2019-07-18T19:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 218
**Author:** ![Milto\_Farroads](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/milto_farroads/32/145201_2.png) [@Milto\_Farroads](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Milto_Farroads)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4432 "2019-09-24T20:01:45Z")
so its OK for 10 of you to gank a lone defenseless crab, but its bad that they will respond with 10 for each of you. With other words you feel entitled to easy resistless kills. ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4433 "2019-09-24T20:07:46Z")
I didn’t say that they can’t respond. I said that it is pointless to engage them. (Borbarad Naglfar insinuated that the response fleets bring fights that are “fair”) Disagreeing to free intel to crabs via local doesn’t entitle me to free kills at all. They can still work for their intel, pay attention, etc. Survive and keep doing what they always did. The questions is that are they entitled to know instantly who is there the minute the stargate is activated even though they (or their fleet mates) are not physically there? They did nothing to deserve that intel. Didn’t even build a structure or maintain it NOTHING. See, that is the point. They shouldn’t be entitled to this free intel automatically by doing nothing. Even if they don’t have that intel, I still have to work for my kills and am not entitled to anything. ---
**Author:** ![Borbarad\_Naglfar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/borbarad_naglfar/32/131048_2.png) [@Borbarad\_Naglfar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Borbarad_Naglfar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4434 "2019-09-24T20:22:40Z")
No i said if the response is too strong give them a runaround. But ring something that can kite, split the gang and kill the tackle? Noo thats too dangerous for you :’( Having eyes on gate still does nothing to prevent you from loging in a cyno and jumping a dread bomb ontop of whatever. At that point one is better off living in a wormhole right away and because nullsec people were not interested in living in wormholes in the first place they stoped playing instead. Your whining about not getting content would only get worse if CCP stuck with this dumb decission. And fueling one more sturcture does nothing to improve gameplay. On what basis do you claim this ‘should’ not be this way annyways? Because you say so? Because they don’t have web cams in the future? ---
**Author:** ![Milto\_Farroads](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/milto_farroads/32/145201_2.png) [@Milto\_Farroads](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Milto_Farroads)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4435 "2019-09-24T20:43:38Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > their intel, pay attention what intel will allow me to have attention on your cloacky ship? It is pointless to undock, and that what people did and forced CCP to reverse the BO. But what entitles you to sitting ducks and free kills? ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4436 "2019-09-24T20:56:46Z")
As I said, nothing “entitles” me to free kills, just like nothing should entitle you to free intel via local. It should work both ways. But of course only absolute safety is what will get you to undock. ---
**Author:** ![Borbarad\_Naglfar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/borbarad_naglfar/32/131048_2.png) [@Borbarad\_Naglfar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Borbarad_Naglfar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4437 "2019-09-24T20:59:18Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > But of course only absolute safety is what will get you to undock. uhuh? ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/d/bd751362890baf7733298e9f28fb2ff41ae2d49f.png) ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4438 "2019-09-24T21:02:12Z")
So then the blackout didn’t need to be removed as you claim because people are out in space anyway. Gotta love showing partial statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Andski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andski/32/147029_2.png) [@Andski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andski)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4439 "2019-09-24T21:03:51Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > As I said, nothing “entitles” me to free kills, just like nothing should entitle you to free intel via local. It should work both ways. But of course only absolute safety is what will get you to undock. What entitles you to free intel via the in-game map and ESI? ---
**Author:** ![Borbarad\_Naglfar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/borbarad_naglfar/32/131048_2.png) [@Borbarad\_Naglfar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Borbarad_Naglfar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4440 "2019-09-24T21:03:56Z")
only it’s far less than before BO are you really that dense or just trolling now? -.-’’ ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4441 "2019-09-24T21:05:02Z")
> [@Andski](#): > > What entitles you to free intel via the in-game map and ESI? I think this should be removed as well. So CCP please make the blackout real and not this partial BS you did before 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4442 "2019-09-24T21:06:12Z")
Then if you are trying to prove a point with numbers, put the story you are trying to portray up. All you showed is that people were in space during blackout, not any comparison. So yes, I was calling out your fail to support your claim with the data that you yourself presented. ---
**Author:** ![Borbarad\_Naglfar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/borbarad_naglfar/32/131048_2.png) [@Borbarad\_Naglfar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Borbarad_Naglfar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4443 "2019-09-24T21:08:07Z")
it both debunks your theory that we’re all carebears who will only undock in ‘absolute safety’ as well as the claim BO was ‘good for content’ ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4444 "2019-09-24T21:09:03Z")
> [@Milto\_Farroads](#): > > It is pointless to undock Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4445 "2019-09-24T21:13:25Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > not any comparison Here you go: ![chart](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/4/240f5862eecbccecb87b632ba1f0d8fb982d0000.png) Source: [https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility](https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility) Original #s courtesy CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4446 "2019-09-24T21:14:51Z")
> [@Xialis](#): > > It’s a zero risk, minimal effort, yet effective way to deal with roaming solo or small gangs of pilots. And so it should be - Why should a solo or small gang be able to kill miners or ratters with little to no risk? You just sound like a little kid who just wants to pull the family dogs tail and then blame the dog when it bites you. 19 July - Died to a ratting VNI 24 July - Died while solo roaming to a small gang 2 August - Died to a ratting fit myrm and a vexor. From here it looks more like - These nasty PVE’rs kill you when you engage them. No offence but i have roamed in small gangs with some of your alliance mates - Find them and learn a thing or two. OR you could just keep complaining about how hard PVP is while dying to PVE’rs. It isn’t the games fault you can’t get easy kills. ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4447 "2019-09-24T21:15:26Z")
And in of itself that is not the whole story because CCP also banned many bots at the same time, which would also show a lower login total. So, the data would need to be corrected for suspected bot logins which were removed. "Firstly the raw numbers for the month of August: ``` 994 account bans for account hacking. 4,369 account bans for botting related activities. 2,454 account bans for RMT related activities. ``` These numbers represent account action taken between 2019/08/01 - 2019/09/01." If you correct for the banned bots, it could be that the logins of non bots increased during the blackout. ---
**Author:** ![Andski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andski/32/147029_2.png) [@Andski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andski)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4448 "2019-09-24T21:16:57Z")
Literally the only effect of the blackout was that subcap ratters didn’t undock, while supercap ratters and Rorqual miners kept going under the umbrella. Subcaps were simply sitting ducks in a no-local environment; why would you bother doing that for a paltry reward when you can just log in a high-sec L4 or incursion alt? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4449 "2019-09-24T21:24:05Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > And in of itself that is not the whole story because CCP also banned many bots at the same time Yep. However… > [@Arrendis](#): > > Here’s the actual numbers: > > > [@](#): > > > > **Here are the final numbers in terms of account action from the first half of 2019:** > > > > - 4385 account bans for account hacking. > > - 12446 account bans for botting related activities. > > - 5101 account bans for RMT related activities. > > > > We’ve seen a substantial amount of action on all three fronts this year – here are the numbers for July too, given that this report focuses specifically on the previous month: > > > > - 301 account bans for account hacking. > > - 777 account bans for botting related activities. > > - 1023 account bans for RMT related activities. > > Emphasis added. > > > [@](#): > > > > Firstly the raw numbers for the month of August: > > > > - 994 account bans for account hacking. > > - 4,369 account bans for botting related activities. > > - 2,454 account bans for RMT related activities. > > Now, the ‘account bans for account hacking’ is an interesting thing. CCP bans those accounts to _protect_ the actual owner. Those get unbanned as soon as CCP’s in touch with them and knows it’s the legit owner at the keys, setting up a new PW and/or 2FA. So remove those. > > That leaves us with: > July: 777 bots > August: 4,369 bots > > Which, obviously, is far short of 16,000. It’s only 5,146, or less than 1/3 the number he’s quoting. To get where he thinks he’s going, you’d have to add August to the first half of the year (Jan-June), and completely ignore July. (After all, if you include July, you end up with 17,593 _for the year_ .) We’re 8 months in, so that should be about 2k/month, which means August was heavy, but they were slacking off in July. > > Note: that’s not actually indicative of CCP not doing their jobs, it’s more indicative of Team Security, like everyone _else_ in Iceland, going on vacation during July. > > Point is, in order to get his number (16,000), you’d have to demonstrate an amazing lack of understanding of just what numbers you’re actually looking at. > > More significantly, though, we should probably combine the ‘bot’ and RMT numbers for those two months, if we’re looking at the decline in PCU. Combining them gives us a total of 8,623 accounts banned (half of his ‘just bots’ number, so we can be sure that’s not what he’s looking at). This is what I like to call the ‘screw you guys, I’m glad you’re gone’ category. > > 8,623 is more than enough to account for the drop in concurrent users. Only problem there is: we know bots don’t just get banned and give up. So how many of those 8600, or even just the 5100 ‘botting’ bans were repeat offenders using VPNs and skill injectors to churn through accounts? > > We have no way of knowing. But even if we take the entire PCU drop of 6,490 during the Blackout to be bots—which is a _best case_ scenario, and one that we all know is not what’s happening—that still means fully **20%** of EVE Online’s players are bots. Which, again, we know is ridiculous. If the ‘best case’ scenario, the one that represents the smallest possible loss of actual players, says that 1 in 5 of your players can’t pass a Turing test, ‘stagnation’ is not your problem. > > So what we’re left with is the far more reasonable assumption that we’re seeing repeat offenders get banned, make new accounts, and get banned again. In fact, even in the ‘best case’ scenario, we’re seeing them all get banned twice. Odds are a lot better that we saw them get banned once in July, and then those same bots (or a significant chunk) get banned 5 or 6 (5.622906823, on average) times each again during August. > > And they’ll probably all get banned again a half dozen times in September, because with endless simultaneous alphas via VPN, and completely ‘legal’ SP-farming enabling them to instantly-inject up into ratting ships, there’s absolutely no reason for these bot farms—tied to RMT, and making their real-world income off of botting—to stop. I mean, it’s not like this hasn’t already been addressed _in this topic_. The bot numbers do not account for the drop in activity. When you factor in the fact that many of these are almost certainly repeat offenders, they don’t even come close. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4450 "2019-09-24T21:31:40Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > Funny because with all the free intel you get the response fleet is most of the time 10 of them for each 1 of us Funny but most of your recent kills indicate the odds going the other way - 5 or 6 vs 1, over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Borbarad\_Naglfar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/borbarad_naglfar/32/131048_2.png) [@Borbarad\_Naglfar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Borbarad_Naglfar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/4451 "2019-09-24T21:37:55Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > 5 or 6 vs 1, over and over Noone gets a 93% danger rating if he doesn’t fight like a coward. He isn’t actually asking for an improvement on PVP but merely wants to make his killboad grinding easyer. Also being a credit card warrior without actually being able to afford it can be stressful… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=217) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=219)