# Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread - Part Deux! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [July 18, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410 "2019-07-18T19:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/784 "2019-07-23T18:14:06Z")
heh 30 minutes of activity that left a negative impression… this is why I see alliance members coming into comms now asking if its over. they don’t even bother to log in anymore other than to collect the points and update their market contracts as they sell their stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Senor\_Retardo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/senor_retardo/32/128543_2.png) [@Senor\_Retardo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Senor_Retardo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/785 "2019-07-23T18:15:18Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Senor\_Retardo](#): > > > > Based on what I just wrote, what do you think made me spend half an hour in game? > > A: blackout or > > B: skill point event? > > Neither. What made you spend half an hour in the game was the time you’d invested prior. All the skill point event provided was an **excuse**. And for that half an hour, _you were in space_. You were doing things, able to be shot at. > > > [@Senor\_Retardo](#): > > > > How do you think ccp will interpret my interaction based on their perspective on the data? > > As 30 minutes of activity. 1. “excuse”? How about reducing friction through stepped incentives? For the skill points you have to get to the Character selection. That’s farther than I’ve been for half a year. And I got goodies for that. Than the next to actually playing the game was much smaller than under regular circumstances. 2. 30 minutes of activity. In their interpretation probably motivated or at least nourished by the blackout. ---
**Author:** ![Milto\_Farroads](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/milto_farroads/32/145201_2.png) [@Milto\_Farroads](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Milto_Farroads)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/786 "2019-07-23T18:16:07Z")
> [@Milto\_Farroads](#): > > No I get it except you do not. In Hisec you cannot spot the wolves in the sheep. In Null sec you can. that claim is a clueless as the claim WH = null-local ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/787 "2019-07-23T18:18:54Z")
> [@leavwiz](#): > > heh 30 minutes of activity that left a negative impression… Quite possibly. But CCP cannot judge the impression a session leaves by that single session itself. They have to judge it based on _additional_ data, like ‘did that account repeat that session later?’ And, given the pre-existing variation in daily activity patterns, that means looking at week-to-week patterns. > [@Senor\_Retardo](#): > > “excuse”? How about reducing friction through stepped incentives? Yep. That’s an excuse. It’s a thing your brain uses as a rationale to make a decision. That’s all it is. > [@Senor\_Retardo](#): > > 30 minutes of activity. In their interpretation probably motivated or at least nourished by the blackout. Well, now you’re making assumptions, aren’t you? You’re doing exactly what they _shouldn’t_—looking at a single data point and projecting what you _think_ onto the data. That’s terrible analysis practice, and _right now_, it’s completely unsupported by the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Milto\_Farroads](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/milto_farroads/32/145201_2.png) [@Milto\_Farroads](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Milto_Farroads)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/788 "2019-07-23T18:22:47Z")
> [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > I think that mining and subsequently production will drop in Null sec meaning that it will be worth while for industrial players to return, just as I did. thats theory crafting. it depends on how many will leave vs how many will return and where they will go. In any case it was already worthwhile. > [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > As to what Null players will do. I think they will come to the forums and whine, only to be told to HTFU, like they did to so many other players. If its all about dome kind of spite against those that told you to HTFU, i am sorry… ---
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/789 "2019-07-23T18:22:54Z")
I would hope by now that players realize there are many differences between nullsec and WH space. The question should be , Is nullsec better for all of its players than it was before. based on the people I see leaving null, the answer is no. if the people leaving are risk averse (carebears) they are still leaving. If they were lazy, they are still leaving. at some point this impacts the gameplay of everyone in null. again, the question is, did nullsec get better for all players\> My personal opinion is that it got better for some, had no effect on mega alliances, likely reduced botting and damaged smaller alliances and corps. I have no idea if that is what CCP wanted. its just what it looks like to me ---
**Author:** ![Milto\_Farroads](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/milto_farroads/32/145201_2.png) [@Milto\_Farroads](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Milto_Farroads)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/790 "2019-07-23T18:27:43Z")
> [@leavwiz](#): > > My personal opinion is that it got better for some My opinion is that it will be even less than some once the hype goes. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/791 "2019-07-23T18:29:18Z")
> [@leavwiz](#): > > again, the question is, did nullsec get better for all players\> > My personal opinion is that it got better for some, had no effect on mega alliances, likely reduced botting and damaged smaller alliances and corps. I think the more important question is: what happens _next_? If there are all of these people leaving, and staying left, then that creates a vacuum. How do their alliances respond? Do groups collapse? Does space open up? Does that space _stay_ empty? Or do new people who are less risk-averse and not lazy move _in_, because now they have the chance to? Immediate impacts are nothing. Follow-on effects are far more important. ---
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/792 "2019-07-23T18:39:19Z")
agreed, tooo soon to know the long term effect. a vacuum is being created as the smaller renters leave (unable to pay the rent) some are joining bigger blocks. will rent go down? will renting become less viable in general? first hand experience is that they are feeling lost and some just aren’t logging in until something changes. it really is too soon to tell ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/793 "2019-07-23T18:41:46Z")
> [@leavwiz](#): > > will renting become less viable in general? Let’s hope so. Renting is an abomination that should be purged from the stars. ---
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/794 "2019-07-23T18:58:42Z")
while I prefer SOV holding. I see a role for renting to allow smaller groups to experience NULL without having to join a mega alliance . I respect renters because they tend to be groups of friends that enjoy playing together and not part of some monolithic giant. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/795 "2019-07-23T19:12:24Z")
See, I see _sov holding_ as the thing smaller groups should be able to do without having to join a mega alliance. And _renting_ is the thing preventing that. Think about it. Population density is the key to high ADMs. So what is it that has mega-alliances controlling massive swaths of space? _Rental_ empires. If renting isn’t a viable income stream for groups like PanFam, HRE, etc, then they’re not going to bother building infrastructure or suffering through the entosis work to take and hold large regions their own players aren’t using. Yes, you’ve got some big, sprawling entities like Legacy that actually think they’re using all their space… they’re not. They’re diffuse. They’re not as bad as the North has been, but they could stand to shrink their footprint down by probably 50%. And yes, some groups _control_ additional space as a defensive measure. The Querious Fight Club comes to mind, where we’ve got operational control. But that’s not for making money. That goes with the intent of ‘this is a place we can be reasonably sure hostile supercap forces aren’t staging in to hit us’. QFC members don’t rent, and they’re supposed to be PvP-ready groups who will defend their own space. Half the reason it’s structured like that is to let small, newer groups get their feet wet in null. I don’t have an issue with small groups of friends who don’t want to join some big bloc. I take issue with the parasitic ‘landlords’ who feed on their labor, and the elements who just want to exploit null’s economic potential without being willing to defend their claim to it. I also think there’s a bunch of other changes CCP should be looking at, in order to give those smaller groups more of a chance for a successful defense. But anything like that _will_ also make it harder for them to break in in the first place. After all, whoever they want to take the space from would be better able to defend it, too. But the problem with renting isn’t the renters, by and large. It’s the landlords. ---
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/796 "2019-07-23T19:22:26Z")
agreed! ---
**Author:** ![Rik\_Jembatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rik_jembatin/32/147392_2.png) [@Rik\_Jembatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rik_Jembatin)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/797 "2019-07-23T19:30:13Z")
I doubt that CCP cares about the type of data you’ve been discussing here. They must certainly know that there are too many variables for an accurate analysis. All they need to know is the size of their bottom line. And I doubt they’re gonna tell us what that is. ---
**Author:** ![ms\_behavior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ms_behavior/32/351513_2.png) [@ms\_behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ms_behavior)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/798 "2019-07-23T19:36:02Z")
It would seem that CCP finally managed to ruin EVE entirely, after 19 years of EVE it’s time to say goodbye, the BO seems to kill the smaller alliances that dont live in sov space, I’m not a “carebear” but this is just plain stupid . Fly safe /o7 ---
**Author:** ![Ikki\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ikki_phoenix/32/391105_2.png) [@Ikki\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ikki_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/799 "2019-07-23T19:38:49Z")
I do like this post of yours. However without renting or having some type of diplomatic deal, smaller corps become targets to bigger blocks. An example. lets say a small corp engages a system that is known to be not used by one of the big blocks (doesnt matter the block), I think you would agree that the block will consider itself attacked and will send a defense fleet which will obliterate the small corp. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/800 "2019-07-23T19:39:32Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I take issue with the parasitic ‘landlords’ who feed on their labor Yeah, the title should be “Viceroy”. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/801 "2019-07-23T19:44:45Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > See, I see _sov holding_ as the thing smaller groups should be able to do without having to join a mega alliance. And _renting_ is the thing preventing that. It is not really. As a smaller group, you can rent several systems, benefit from all the advantages of the sov system but have none of the disadvantages. Smaller groups can use the systems under a renting scheme. Without renting, things become like what Vale of the Silent, Fade, Cloud Ring, Pure Blind or Tribute are now: Wastelands. Even Querious is a wasteland by all measures (rat kills, ship kills, jumps, adms) ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Steak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ms_steak/32/168834_2.png) [@Ms\_Steak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ms_Steak)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/802 "2019-07-23T19:56:42Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > the title should be “Viceroy”. “Feudal”. And the renters are “serfs”. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/803 "2019-07-23T20:03:35Z")
I think the word you are looking for is kulak. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=38) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=40)