# Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread - Part Deux! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [July 18, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410 "2019-07-18T19:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1228 "2019-07-27T15:24:20Z")
> [@Miulan\_Ng](#): > > IMO, what’s significant in the interview is that the CCP team thinks EVE needs shaking up in a big way. Though not “concrete” in describing specific changes to come, CCP Hellmar, CCP Goodfella, and CCP Falcon, all express dissatisfaction with the “purple doughnut” and the status quo in null sec. Im glad after months of arguing on the forums they are taking it seriously. Maybe this game will see some benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Miulan\_Ng](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miulan_ng/32/167268_2.png) [@Miulan\_Ng](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miulan_Ng)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1229 "2019-07-27T15:26:24Z")
CCP Falcon’s comments were particularly telling. What I heard was basically, “HTFU”… ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1230 "2019-07-27T15:32:55Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > The raw values matter, and more importantly, the locations do also because of consistency. You could have the most isk rich place in new eden but if you cant consistently mine it, you actually lose out being there. But you know, only a few of us are super smart and consider things like that. > > Btw, Wormhole space is still garbo, and will also be garbo as long as you have to sit and spam “scan” and a single allied entity owns the best part. Actually you sum up WH space well. You don’t often get to mine etc… without interruption and when you do you run out quickly. In yours and the WHs around you. As to the WH space vs the Null space specifically it does not matter as Null space always caters to more people with less risk. As to spamming scan. That is just the life if you want that level of payout. So this is summed up best by saying HTFU or find somewhere more your risk level, like lo-sec or hi-sec. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1231 "2019-07-27T15:48:28Z")
> [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > As to spamming scan. That is just the life if you want that level of payout. No, Thats just bad design. The directional scan needs to be removed from eve, and they need to shift covert ops into a role where it can scan significantly faster then any other ship, so it can be used to probe people very quickly (with in 30-60 seconds of entering the system/wh) I’d even advocate for cloaked probes with covert-ops, alone with 50% Reduction to scan duration + its normal strength / relic bonus’s. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1232 "2019-07-27T15:51:21Z")
> [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > I suspect neither do you. Shadow Fighters. They’re factional fighter-bombers and the only source for the BPC is loot drop froma low security (not null!) space incursion site. Each fighter is worth billions. Why in low security space only? Because low security systems weren’t supposed to advantage one side any more than another like home territory advantage does in 0.0 Citadels changed that, now the spam is everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1233 "2019-07-27T15:51:36Z")
So in another words making things easier and safer. We have seen where that path lead and frankly I am happier to have risk closer to reward. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1234 "2019-07-27T15:52:07Z")
> [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > So this is summed up best by saying HTFU or find somewhere more your risk level, like lo-sec or hi-sec. Risk should be applied based on the activity you are doing, no the location you are doing the activity in. To be clear about this, level 10 complex’s should be an option in high or low sec, and should not offer more or less danger the null out side of pvp. I say out side of pvp as because you can get suicide ganked in high (until ccp gets off allowing that) or ganked in the plex in null, so in that capacity there should really be no difference. The issue is that people want to apply pve-specific dangers to space, and this should not be the way the game is structured. People should go to wormhole or null or low sec or what ever because of what those area’s of the game itself has to offer. High sec being the one offering more market access, but less larger scale pvp for example. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1235 "2019-07-27T15:52:54Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > The directional scan needs to be removed from eve, and they need to shift covert ops into a role where it can scan significantly faster then any other ship, so it can be used to probe people very quickly (with in 30-60 seconds of entering the system/wh) That’s so true, d-scan is free intel without even needing to fit a module. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1236 "2019-07-27T15:53:25Z")
Do thousands of these drop a month or are you using a rareish item to compare against the isk/hour that people get out of null? ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1237 "2019-07-27T15:54:17Z")
> [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > So in another words making things easier and safer. The answer to this is Yes to some things, and no to others. changes should not be made to the game because you or some other “one shot the noob” generational bloomer should want that. IT should be made because that is better for the over-all population (and most importantly of that the ones that left), not those who think like you do (just because you belong to this camp or that). > [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > We have seen where that path lead and frankly I am happier to have risk closer to reward. Ambiguous. define what you mean specifically and we can talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1238 "2019-07-27T15:54:28Z")
Well see aren’t you lucky. You still get free intel now that local is no longer in null. You should rejoice and be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1239 "2019-07-27T15:55:40Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > That’s so true, d-scan is free intel without even needing to fit a module. It might be interesting to shift it to a module that causes people to pop up on the screen, like other objects do (like a station) then bind the “warp to” mechanic of it to probes, and limit the module to covert-ops ships. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1240 "2019-07-27T16:04:02Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > > We have seen where that path lead and frankly I am happier to have risk closer to reward. > > Ambiguous. define what you mean specifically and we can talk about it. Nah. Whats to talk about. CCP are finally starting to make the changes that Null have said for 15 years would destroy EvE and Eve is doing just fine. I am happy on the path we now travel. ---
**Author:** ![Miulan\_Ng](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miulan_ng/32/167268_2.png) [@Miulan\_Ng](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miulan_Ng)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1241 "2019-07-27T16:06:59Z")
Active vs. passive sonar, with passive limited to covert ops. That’d be very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1242 "2019-07-27T16:07:13Z")
> [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > Nah. Whats to talk about. CCP are finally starting to make the changes that Null have said for 15 years would destroy EvE and Eve is doing just fine. Conjecture; and its border-line goon propaganda. **More pvp is what null needs.** We have afk super capitals, that need to be popped. Goons would hate this change because they cant bot in their corner of the universe anymore with out being bugged. (let alone the other entities). What ccp needs to do is stop listening to people like you trying to advocate to make this game impossible for anyone above your “specific” progression level of playing. If we make it hard for them, why dont we just make it hard for you? ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1243 "2019-07-27T16:09:28Z")
> [@Miulan\_Ng](#): > > Active vs. passive sonar, with passive limited to covert ops. That’d be very interesting. The entire system just needs to be gutted to be honest. The probing system is far superior in its design then direction scan ever was. Allowing covert-ops to scan at 1-2 second scan cycles on their probes would allow covert ops to take a forward “kill” scouting position. This means while interceptors would potentially be used to find hostile caps, covert ops would be used to find potential kill targets. This makes both viable options for pvp scouting and helps diversify covert-ops identity. from there we just need to distinguish HIC’s from Dic’s and we will be in a better place. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1244 "2019-07-27T16:26:18Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > What ccp needs to do is stop listening to people like you trying to advocate to make this game impossible for anyone above your “specific” progression level of playing. > > If we make it hard for them, why dont we just make it hard for you? Yeah that would work. Another amazing idea. Have you considered trying for the CSM. After all CCP would do wonderfully ignoring you, along with the other CSM members. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1245 "2019-07-27T16:28:46Z")
> [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > Yeah that would work. Another amazing idea. Have you considered trying for the CSM. After all CCP would do wonderfully ignoring you, along with the other CSM members. Strange, Yet just a few months ago i sat on these forums advocating for this change in the thread we are posting in (black out in null) and putting up very significant argumentation for its benefits. Hey look, we have threads on the forums of people liking the change. so much for “not listening”. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1246 "2019-07-27T16:29:53Z")
> [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > Yet it has been people in Null who have been arguing for the restoration of local and for null to be safer. And it’s been people in null who’ve been arguing for keeping it and saying we’re having a lot of fun like this. Imagine that! It’s almost like different people can have different ideas! > [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > Now I hope they kill off the CSM and most of its stupid ideas. Ah, I see, you’re one of _those_ idiots. > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Especially if you also start adding more vulnerability to infiltration/betrayal through organization mechanics. I do not think this will have the result you want it to have. At the very least, _I_ don’t want to see a return to the Digital Ebola level of CI. But I suspect that that’s what would happen. Vulnerability breeds paranoia. Paranoia gives rise to… over-reaction. > [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > Not sure why more people would join big entities but it is possible. For the same reason they’re starting to flee Provi: risk v reward. The large blocs minimize risk, simply through the protection of the herd. > [@Migorn](#): > > I fear that you both know exactly what I mean but once again are mearly trying to add more salt because its something that you don’t like the sound of/it goes againsed your views. I know what you’re trying to say, yes. And I’m _disagreeing_, because I think you’re wrong. The whole ‘limit the size of corps/alliances’ thing is something that’s been kicked around for years. And we’ve had a number of plans for how to deal with it for years. Putting a hard mechanical limit on the size of a group won’t prohibit that group from working with others, and there are numerous ways to get around those limits, both through in-game tools like ACLs and standings, and out-of-game solutions. You can ‘explain’ how you get there all you like, but your conclusions are still wrong. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Would you say the blackout made Null more like low security space, high security space, or wormhole space? On the whole? None of the above. You can’t see local. So what? You have to use d-scan and be alert for someone landing on-grid. Again: so what? These are not things that make null intrinsically more like j-space. If you’re mining in HS, you still have to watch out for people landing on-grid. D-scan may not be _as_ useful, but it’s still a good way to see a bunch of gank-destroyers coming. And this hasn’t altered the basic nature of ‘light cyno, get titans’ _or_ ‘there could be 500 guys waiting to come help’. So no, on the whole, this hasn’t made null ‘more like’ any specific one of those other regions. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Gates were changed to allow capitals to pass them, while wormholes allowed capitals to pass from day one. Was that a change that made gates operate more, or less like wormholes? And the same change allowed supercarriers and titans to pass through gates. All gates. Every gate. Find me a gate into a C2 that a _Nidhoggur_ can use. > [@Miulan\_Ng](#): > > IMO, what’s significant in the interview is that the CCP team thinks EVE needs shaking up in a big way. Which is exactly what Hilmar said, much more publicly, at EVE Down Under. And the comments about the devaluing of ISK are literally self-evident to anyone who pays any attention to how money works. And he didn’t say ‘titan weapons should require fuel’. DD’s _already_ require fuel. He said _titans_ should require fuel. As in, just to fly 'em around. Operating/maintenance costs are a suggestion that’s been made dozens of times over. > [@Miulan\_Ng](#): > > CCP Falcon’s comments were particularly telling. So, you know what else is particularly telling? None of these guys are actually game developers for EVE Online. Falcon’s a Community Manager. Hilmar’s the CEO. Goodfella’s the Brand Manager. None of them are the actual guys (like Fozzie, Rise, etc) who actually do the work. The only one whose words mean anything when he’s talking about what he _wants_ is Hilmar. But yes, Falcon wants Ultimate GrimDark. This is not news for anyone who’s listened to Falcon… _ever_. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Each fighter is worth billions. Only because people like teh shiny. Functionally, Shadows’ big advantage is the emergency DD button that destroys them… which nobody’s gonna bother using unless they’re already about to lose their supercarrier and have no other choice. And the people who have the money for Shadows are generally too smart to get into those situations. > [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > Do thousands of these drop a month or are you using a rareish item to compare against the isk/hour that people get out of null? Drop rate depends on how quickly people farm the Incursion. Figure maybe 1 flight every week or so. Though I’m _pretty sure_ Shadow BPCs drop in null, too. It’s only the _Revenant_ itself that’s lowsec-only. I’d have to check w/our incursion SIG. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1247 "2019-07-27T16:38:31Z")
You quote me and write > [@Arrendis](#): > > > Now I hope they kill off the CSM and most of its stupid ideas. > > Ah, I see, you’re one of _those_ idiots. And then continue to quote me. I think that sums up the value of your opinions. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=60) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=62)