# Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread - Part Deux! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [July 18, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410 "2019-07-18T19:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1699 "2019-08-02T11:09:38Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > I’m interested to see what affect the blackout has on isk generation. It will reduce it, of course. We can tell that much just by looking at the monthly nullsec NPC kills (~200M in April and May, 176M in June, 98M in July). ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1700 "2019-08-02T11:18:51Z")
How does that compare to same time last year? Far more relevant.,. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1701 "2019-08-02T11:23:10Z")
200-212 million or so every month april-july in 2018. You know you can just look these up on dotlan, right? ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1702 "2019-08-02T11:38:31Z")
It wasn’t meant as a “go look it up” - More of a which is more relevant ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1703 "2019-08-02T11:48:46Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I did accuse you of considering null-blocs the root of all evil. Wait lets do the math on this. Goons troll null and abuse the lesser powers. Goons troll high sec with high-sec gank retards Goons troll low with drakuvac rejects How are null entities not at play here? Imo, Disband goons and ban its senior leadership, remove all of goons assets and the assets of the corps. Set an example to all of eve for the rest of its history how people cannot go around abusing others, how there is justice for evil action in this game. put it in a blog. Do that and i promise the return of people. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1704 "2019-08-02T11:53:58Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > Sounds like a lot, but CONDI alone has 32,000 characters and while I’m sure the distribution isn’t even, if we assume only 1000 ratters, that’s 4 hours a day of ratting per character. No, actually thats not true. They do not remove people for a few reasons, of them the greatest is that the number on that list simply makes them feel powerful to other onlookers. As a developer we know that the average rate of logins for a member in a corp in a given week is around 32%. Eve however has horrid retention rates, which massively effect this value (decreasing it) Only 30-40% of goons is active (at best case). > [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > It’s more than 1000 ratters, and they’re not doing it in VNIs. When you make 8 trillion a month you can injector spam people to titan. It only takes 50 or so (if i recall right). Once your in titan you can do a 500m/hr farm rate with aoe dd, however, im not sure how they get another 166m an hour out of this but i’d be willing to bet if they are in fact farming 665m(ish)/hr, they are doing something with titans. In the end you are counting every goon member to be active, and we’ve seen the cap of their alliance fleets at around 1k in the last few years. They definately do not have anywhere near half activity rate, much less more. This is where your equation is failing. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1705 "2019-08-02T12:23:41Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Only 30-40% of goons is active (at best case). Okay? So if 30% of them are active, that’s about 10,000. I used less than 4%, myself, when I used the value of 1000 ratters, but let’s go with your generous 30%. So we’ve gone from it taking 1,000 people VNI ratting for 4 hours a day, to 10,000 people VNI ratting for .4 hours a day. Sounds pretty ■■■■■■■ doable to me. Let’s go back to what you actually said, though: > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > I have done hard calculations on their alliance, it will take 30% of them doing 666m/hr none top the entire month for their alliances to generate the isk income they make. I’m reasonably certain “none top” was supposed to be “non-stop”, yes? So, let’s break this down into its component parts: -30% of goons required -Generating 666M/hr -Non-stop for the entire month This is what you said. 30% of goons is about 10,000. 10,000 people generating 666m/hr generate 6.66 trillion isk **per hour**. If there were only 100 characters generating that income, we’re right back to… 4 hours per day to reach 8 trillion. Let’s take a moment to appreciate the yawning chasm of difference between “30% of them non-stop for the entire month” vs. “100 characters for 4 hours a day”. > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > When you make 8 trillion a month you can injector spam people to titan. It only takes 50 or so (if i recall right). > > Once your in titan you can do a 500m/hr farm rate with aoe dd, however, im not sure how they get another 166m an hour out of this but i’d be willing to bet if they are in fact farming 665m(ish)/hr, they are doing something with titans. > > In the end you are counting every goon member to be active, and we’ve seen the cap of their alliance fleets at around 1k in the last few years. They definately do not have anywhere near half activity rate, much less more. This is where your equation is failing. While we’re in an appreciating kind of mood, let’s take a moment to admire how you’ve apparently done “hard calculations” but are also incapable of responding to “Okay, let’s see your calculations,” with anything other than vague insinuations and “Trust me I’m a dev I know things.” ---
**Author:** ![DrugsDen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drugsden/32/354590_2.png) [@DrugsDen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrugsDen)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1706 "2019-08-02T12:29:20Z")
Can see how well this BO crap is working ppl are spending more time on here talking crap allday then playing the game! just stop this crap now before you kill this game off ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1707 "2019-08-02T12:35:54Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > 10,000 people generating 666m/hr generate 6.66 trillion isk **per hour**. If there were only 100 characters generating that income, we’re right back to… 4 hours per day to reach 8 trillion. I also said > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Eve however has horrid retention rates, which massively effect this value (decreasing it) Btw, there is not 10,000 goons active. T heir peak times do not even hit 10k. Just an fyi on how this works, the game is broken into 4 sections / Timezones. No where is there 10k people online. you can open up the chart in goon space and look at the online peak hours and see there is no where near even 1000 of them. In fact in the last 3 years the only time iv seen them at those levels is when they are in ops. Which means goons is likely a alt spam alliance, or is fitting their stigma of playing other games until a redit post go’s out. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1708 "2019-08-02T12:37:51Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > So we’ve gone from it taking 1,000 people VNI ratting for 4 hours a day, to 10,000 people VNI ratting for .4 hours a day. Side note on this point… Only noobs rat in vni. Goons do not have noob skill points. They super spam, its been that way since i dunno 5-6 years ago (probably longer). Vni’s dont make anywhere near 666m /hr, The closest thing that i know of is a titan with aoe dd trick, which caps at around 500m an hour. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1709 "2019-08-02T12:38:11Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Btw, there is not 10,000 goons active. T heir peak times do not even hit 10k. You’re the one who said “30% of goons”. Perhaps you would like to revise the stupid thing you said earlier. > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Only noobs rat in vni. Goons do not have noob skill points. They super spam, its been that way since i dunno 5-6 years ago (probably longer). > [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > **It’s more than 1000 ratters, and _they’re not doing it in VNIs_.** I highlighted the part where you need to learn to read. The short and sweet of it is that, no, no significant portion of goons needs to rat non-stop for the entire month at 666m/hr to generate their income. The thing you said is fundamentally, provably moronic. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1710 "2019-08-02T12:40:04Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > You’re the one who said “30% of goons”. No, I said > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > As a developer we know that the average rate of logins for a member in a corp in a given week is around 32%. **Eve however has horrid retention rates, which massively effect this value (decreasing it)** Now here in there did i say “30% of goons are active” I made the point, The metrics in the industry say they should be around 32% activity rate in the average game. Which is why i said Only 30-40% of goons is active **(at best case)** _read bold area’s since you have downs_ ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1711 "2019-08-02T12:41:34Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > I have done hard calculations on their alliance, it will take 30% of them doing 666m/hr none top the entire month for their alliances to generate the isk income they make. This is you, saying literally that, right there. If you click the little arrow, it will take you right back to the idiot thing you said, exactly where and when you said it. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1712 "2019-08-02T12:42:53Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > The short and sweet of it is that, no, no significant portion of goons needs to rat non-stop for the entire month at 666m/hr to generate their income. The thing you said is fundamentally, provably moronic. Every single goon sits there and bots, non top. They even have titans that bot defensive measures dding key gates so people cannot enter to find out their secrets. **Attention all people pay attention to this because mittens alt 100023 is here trying to hide the truth that goons are full of bots** > anyone doubting that goons are botting simply get in a shuttle (remove implants) And flow down to goons space. YOu will be greeted with the bot defense team of 3 titans (2 cal/1 amarr) aoe dding the gate when you are 1 jump out. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1713 "2019-08-02T12:49:42Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Every single goon sits there and bots, non top. They even have titans that bot defensive measures dding key gates so people cannot enter to find out their secrets. Let me walk you through this with very small words and short, clipped sentences. We’re looking at the math to reach 8 trillion isk in 1 month. You’re asserting 666 million per hour. First of all, let’s assume you’re correct about that. Sure, why not! You certainly seem to think you know what you’re talking about, let’s take your word for it. That means, to reach 8 trillion ISK in 1 month will require 12,000 man-hours of ratting. We’ll use 720 hours in a month. This would require only 17 people ratting “non-stop for the entire month” to eclipse 8 trillion isk. That’s basic ■■■■■■■ arithmetic. You have also asserted, just now, that: > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Every single goon sits there and bots, non top. Which brings us to the obvious question: If they’re all botting at 666m/hr, why is Delve’s bounty generation **only** 8 trillion? 17 people had that covered, but you just told us every single goon bots non-stop? > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Attention all people pay attention to this because mittens alt 100023 is here trying to hide the truth that goons are full of bots Goons are quite red to me ingame. The fact that they’re my internet spaceship enemies doesn’t make your statements any less provably ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1714 "2019-08-02T13:22:39Z")
The debate isn’t who likes FPS games or not, the debate is why is so many players resolve so weak? I insult or belittle because you put the game that I love in jeopardy with your silly, lazy and emotional decision to quit just because local chat is delayed. I insult the quitters here because their game is conditional on it being easy which is not in line with the dark and unforgiving game Eve Online was supposed to be. You’re playing a sci-fi space simulator and you’re surprised a mysterious alien race has come and disrupted it, where is your imagination and sense of adventure? I’m glad CCP has HTFU and just done what they want. God!! some of you players are simply impossible to please. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1715 "2019-08-02T13:30:42Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > The debate isn’t who likes FPS games or not, the debate is why is so many players resolve so weak? I insult or belittle because you put the game that I love in jeopardy with your silly, lazy and emotional decision to quit just because local chat is delayed. If people aren’t enjoying something that exists _purely_ as a recreational activity, they should absolutely go do something else. Suggesting that people should have “resolve” to continue an entertainment activity that isn’t entertaining them is absurd. While I certainly think the blackout histrionics are more than a little overwrought, that has more to do with the bizarre number of people who spend a huge amount of time in utter apoplexy about a hobby they _clearly_ hate instead of just… doing something else if they dislike it so much. You should also be keenly aware of just how little anyone else owes you. It’s not their responsibility to play a game they don’t enjoy just so _your_ game isn’t jeopardized. Who the ■■■■ are you to them? What are they supposed to think? “I’m really not having any fun with this but…gosh, I don’t know… I don’t want to let _Aaron_ down so I guess I’ll keep spending my free time on this thing I don’t enjoy. It just wouldn’t do to upset _Aaron_. He’s so important.” ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1716 "2019-08-02T13:44:31Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > If people aren’t enjoying something that exists _purely_ as a recreational activity, they should absolutely go do something else Drifters have attacked in fast powerful ships and destroyed lots of isk, many players scrambled to mobilize and fight and took more losses, Drifters then attacked communication relays and made it difficult to obtain materials… I’m on the edge of my ■■■■■■■ seat as I am very exited by all of this, I stopped ratting in my expensive ship and chose a less expensive one to continue ratting. I actually enjoy travelling in null more since the blackout, > [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > You should also be keenly aware of just how little anyone else owes you. It’s not their responsibility to play a game they don’t enjoy just so _your_ game isn’t jeopardized. Who the ■■■■ are you to them? What are they supposed to think? > > “I’m really not having any fun with this but…gosh, I don’t know… I don’t want to let _Aaron_ down so I guess I’ll keep spending my free time on this thing I don’t enjoy. It just wouldn’t do to upset _Aaron_ . He’s so important.” That wasn’t my point and you know it. This is a forum so I will use it to bring fourth my personal opinion. I am entitled to have an opinion about the future of Eve and be annoyed if I don’t like where it is leading just as you do, none of you have to consider my feelings. LOL, switching off local is all it took to reveal how many of you need your hand held while gaming. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1717 "2019-08-02T13:47:32Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > This is a forum so I will use it to bring fourth my personal opinion. I am entitled to have an opinion about the future of Eve and be annoyed if I don’t like where it is leading just as you do, none of you have to consider my feelings. Ah. I see. So, you’re entitled to insult and belittle people for not spending their time on things you enjoy, but they do not. We’re not entitled to point out that you’re ridiculous for doing so. That’s a completely reasonable set of expectations that any well-adjusted adult would hold, I suppose. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1718 "2019-08-02T13:48:47Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > So, you’re entitled to insult and belittle people for not spending their time on things you enjoy, but they do not. You were all happy to do that when local was immediate mode, LOL, switching off local is all it took to reveal how many of you need your hand held while gaming. How about some warm milk and cookies, and a story before bed? or how about a salt sandwich to replenish the salt you lost from all that crying? LOLOLOL, this is epic and hilarious you’re all here crying and CCP isn’t budging on their decision HAHA. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=83) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=85)