# Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread - Part Deux! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [July 18, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410 "2019-07-18T19:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 86
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1739 "2019-08-02T18:59:11Z")
If a mechanic could be put in place for renting I think it would be bolstered with Alliance fines for banned bots - Each instance would be added to alliance fees. - This would give incentives to turn in the botters (If a bot is reported by a Director or CEO then any later bans would not incur a fine) ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1740 "2019-08-02T19:01:09Z")
This would not be a thing for more than five minutes before it was used offensively by inserting isolated bot accounts into enemy alliances and then “reporting” them from outside to inflict punitive measures on the alliance. Bad idea is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1741 "2019-08-02T19:10:07Z")
Can confirm. In a world where VPNs with IP/MAC-masking is a thing, this is _exactly_ what a lot of nullsec would do. I don’t think most would even wait 5 minutes to start. Edit: Though, it wouldn’t be ‘isolated’. There’d be people spinning up new accounts to Vexxor-bot by the _thousand_. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1742 "2019-08-02T19:11:24Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Edit: Though, it wouldn’t be ‘isolated’. There’d be people spinning up new accounts to Vexxor-bot by the _thousand_ . I meant “isolated” as in “can’t be traced back to real mains” (via the VPNs, VMs, etc. you mentioned), no wallet/transfer history, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1743 "2019-08-02T19:13:48Z")
Well that would certainly make you improve your vetting procedures ! - friendship first maybe? So, apart from the random idea that “enemy alliances” will put bot accounts into your organization - That is real accounts that you get to vet, with real people that you talk to, owning real accounts with time in the game, experience, training time and worth - That some “random enemy” is willing to trash. So, apart from that, can you think up another excuse to have active bots safely reside in your alliance? ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1744 "2019-08-02T19:14:49Z")
> [@Abe\_Rollin](#): > > So, apart from the random idea that “enemy alliances” will put bot accounts into your organization Apart from the obvious thing that would happen, history is not exactly littered with instances of collective punishment that we look back on and say, “Yes, that was a good and just and correct thing to do that worked out best for everyone.” ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1745 "2019-08-02T19:22:42Z")
> [@Abe\_Rollin](#): > > Well that would certainly make you improve your vetting procedures ! - friendship first maybe? No, it wouldn’t. Because there’d be no difficulty _at all_ for people on either side to be ‘friends’ and then screw people over. It’s done _right now_, all the time. Spies in every null group in the game already feign friendship for _years_ in order to screw people over. > [@Abe\_Rollin](#): > > So, apart from that, can you think up another excuse to have active bots safely reside in your alliance? Except that nobody’s suggesting that. We’re just pointing out that _your_ suggestion is a bad one. If you put in a mechanic that can be used to screw over the other guy, _everyone will use it_. Everyone will use it because _nobody will be able to risk being the only group not using it_. CCP _already_ implements a kind of ‘alliance fine’ for bots: any money you got from the bots, you lose. If you spent it? Tough, you have a negative alliance wallet. That means that if there’s bots comprising most of your alliance’s income, when they get caught, your SRP is jacked. Your sov bills are jacket. Alliance and corp contracts are screwed. And on and on. Negwalleting an alliance _already happens_. It has already caused a sov drop in a number of Fraternity systems when they got hit for bots in FRT Treasury. That loss of sov meant jumpgates went offline or got delayed in being put down. It meant IHUB upgrades were lost. It meant ADMs dropped. The ‘fine’ part of your plan functionally _already exists_. Adding onto that with _more_ fines… that just lets _us_ screw with everyone else in null a lot more than they can screw with us, because it’s a pure numbers game, at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1746 "2019-08-02T19:29:08Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Except that nobody’s suggesting that. We’re just pointing out that _your_ suggestion is a bad one. If you put in a mechanic that can be used to screw over the other guy, _everyone will use it_ . Everyone will use it because _nobody will be able to risk being the only group not using it_ . Seriously, the supplies for this project are a virtual private server, a bunch of alpha accounts, and one vaguely sociopathic player with a bent towards spycraft. If you throw a rock at Fan Fest, it will bounce off three of those before it hits the ground. I’d actually bet large on at least ONE person doing it strictly for fun, with no real agenda aside from lulz and chaos, nevermind the folks with political motivations. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1747 "2019-08-02T19:32:36Z")
History is littered with collective punishment and it’s a standard when it comes to punishment: What have to Romans ever done for us? … apart from the aqueducts… and collective punishment that made one of the most effective armies in history. Sports teams being fined for the conduct of individual players, fines against all companies trading with countries with intentional sanctions. All punitive damage court cases held against companies are a collective fine against shareholders - Of course punishment works. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1748 "2019-08-02T19:35:36Z")
> [@Abe\_Rollin](#): > > Well that would certainly make you improve your vetting procedures ! - friendship first maybe? And, just another note on this: You may have noticed that at some point, I said something about ‘Digital Ebola’. Digi was our former COINTEL guy. He went to the kinds of extremes it would take to prevent this kind of thing. None of it was illegal. None of it was a violation of the TOS. But he’d scrape the internet for every single piece of public-facing information that existed about you. You don’t want to be encouraging that level of assholery. I sure as hell don’t want to see a return to that level of assholery. But Digi wasn’t the only guy out there doing it. If you push nullsec toward the ‘we will use bot reports to wage war’ level of metagame, _that is what you are pushing_. And if you think people won’t do that, look at what happened to Brisc. That was just penifSMASH screwing around on a lark. He didn’t even _mean_ anything by it. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1749 "2019-08-02T19:41:35Z")
TBH it’s sort of a moot point, as ideas go I think this one is probably far enough out there that _even CCP_ couldn’t ■■■■ it up. Probably. I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Sana\_Yamada](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sana_yamada/32/377691_2.png) [@Sana\_Yamada](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sana_Yamada)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1750 "2019-08-02T19:50:33Z")
Well if they were up it was still not by a decidedly greater margin. It only figures that a blackout was needed to give them the edge over the comms systems lol ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1751 "2019-08-02T19:53:53Z")
> [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > Probably. Did you know that CCP once suggested banned players could be re-admitted to the game if they spent an amount of time doing hard labor by smashing space rocks with no reward. Really, you think increasing alliance fees per member with a bot caught is… far enough out there ? ---
**Author:** ![Sana\_Yamada](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sana_yamada/32/377691_2.png) [@Sana\_Yamada](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sana_Yamada)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1752 "2019-08-02T19:56:46Z")
Abe, god your still harping on this , when will you really understand your aversion to Alliances or bot controlling fines will never happen as a Alliance is not responsible for any member that bots, it is up to CCP to remove them from the game if caught , so please stop the troll and find a better topic . ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1753 "2019-08-02T19:58:13Z")
> [@Abe\_Rollin](#): > > Really, you think increasing alliance fees per member with a bot caught is… far enough out there ? There is absolutely no chance in hell of CCP instituting your ridiculous collective punishment for bots idea, yes, that is what I am saying. ---
**Author:** ![Faelune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faelune/32/152255_2.png) [@Faelune](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faelune)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1754 "2019-08-02T19:58:28Z")
I don’t want to explain why to pay for to talk is humongusly wrong. A simple answer. Anyone is going to go elsewhere after a short time of 6 month at most. Submariner’s game , silent huntign game is a “niche” hut for dog. it never succed. this post is about to pay to have right to be, and it’s a relay to the right to act. Buy a way to Talk or to buy a skill that is going to talk from body might is the same. ---
**Author:** ![Sana\_Yamada](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sana_yamada/32/377691_2.png) [@Sana\_Yamada](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sana_Yamada)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1755 "2019-08-02T20:01:39Z")
I think he cant get over it , delusional thought process maybe. This is a Blackout thread he must be confused and cant find the Anti botting thread. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Rollin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abe_rollin/32/272864_2.png) [@Abe\_Rollin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abe_Rollin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1756 "2019-08-02T20:10:46Z")
I have a still, it does not play the harp but you are right it is **my** still and l use it to make Bourbon. **You’re** quick to defend alliances from any liability that may be incurred due to harboring botters that provide them income. ---
**Author:** ![Ikki\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ikki_phoenix/32/391105_2.png) [@Ikki\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ikki_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1757 "2019-08-02T20:14:06Z")
I would not underestimate goons capabilities in this type of situation. Nor the capabilities of TEST, Intitiative and Brave to name a few. All of those entities have the manpower and the capabilities to blow you out of the sky before you even make a dent to a sub cap, let alone a super. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1758 "2019-08-02T20:15:00Z")
> [@Abe\_Rollin](#): > > I have a still, it does not play the harp but you are right it is **my** still and l use it to make Bourbon. > > **You’re** quick to defend alliances from any liability that may be incurred due to harboring botters that provide them income. Yes, anyone who thinks your ideas are horrible must be a ~~[communist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism)~~ botter. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=85) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=87)