# Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread - Part Deux! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [July 18, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410 "2019-07-18T19:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 88
**Author:** ![Sana\_Yamada](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sana_yamada/32/377691_2.png) [@Sana\_Yamada](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sana_Yamada)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1779 "2019-08-03T00:07:12Z")
No it was not meant to be safe , every time you leave dock its dangerous but when people actually took time to make things safer some people got upset. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1780 "2019-08-03T02:11:12Z")
What opportunities would those be exactly? Who is it we can undock on and battle? Do we take a Super fleet with subcap support - How many should we take, 1,000 - 3,000 maybe 100 would be enough. Oh wait, all the groups capable of “undocking and having battles” - WON’T. Since the blackout began the one thing I’ve noticed overall is - Most major groups who hold space are concentrating on minding/guarding their own space. This doesn’t leave a lot of room for any kind of “decent” (lets drive them out of their space - lets kill their super fleet) kind of fights. Which is exactly what the game needs. We need a new Sov system, that is not so easy to manipulate and is nothing but a full on grind fest We need a reason to go out and fight - Why fight someone over space when it has nothing your own space doesn’t have. Honestly who wants to risk taking more space during changes that are slated to make it harder to hold space? We need CCP to stop trying to “force” non sandbox content on to the worlds oldest established sandbox We need CCP to talk to (and listen to) players from nulsec who don’t have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo We need CCP to stop “pretending” they know what they are doing when it comes to nulsec ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1781 "2019-08-03T02:37:18Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > This makes it important to choose wisely who is allied with them, it helps give mechanic value to coalitions in the game (ie no more out side of game mechanics) and so forth. How would you go about groups using out of game comms to co-ordinate and work together. We have at times worked with traditional enemies because we had a common enemy. There was no formal “alliance”, we just didn’t shoot each other for a time and used a shared TS/Mumble. CCP can’t, with game mechanics, stop players and groups “co-operating” especially when all it really takes is, Get on comms - Form fleet - if it’s purple, don’t shoot it. Renting and Renters is an age old problem. CCP would need to fix sov first to even begin to look at doing anything with game mechanics relating to renter alliances. Not likely to happen in my lifetime.,. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1782 "2019-08-03T03:36:17Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > How would you go about groups using out of game comms to co-ordinate and work together. > We have at times worked with traditional enemies because we had a common enemy. There was no formal “alliance”, we just didn’t shoot each other for a time and used a shared TS/Mumble. In some cases they should be supported for this type of behavior, and in others its a failure on the development teams part for facilitating them with the content, and options needed to do it. Example of this is founded above when i mentioned “sensor towers” concept. If upwell structures could apply an upgrade that would allow an ! to show up on the map and when hovering over it said: Fleet (orange spice) - 132 members Fleet (apple spice) - 242 members and you were able to see this ! which you can scroll over for the above details, what system they are in, and have it update in real time, you’d invalidate spying largely. Coalitions take place out of game because its mechanically possible in game to make them work. There are ways to invalidate them from existing in the game with mechanical changes to the diplomacy and overview system. It is possible to some how phase, or prevent people from locking on ships that are engaged in a war for example, requiring you to be part of that war to interact wiht them. Wars could also be required to challenge null sov. A great many of options are here that can be created to make it so that you invalidate this type of behavior. its up to the development team to investigate what is best for the game and implement it. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > CCP can’t, with game mechanics, stop players and groups “co-operating” especially when all it really takes is, Get on comms - Form fleet - if it’s purple, don’t shoot it. At some point when its a problem, players will generally stop doing it. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Renting and Renters is an age old problem. CCP would need to fix sov first to even begin to look at doing anything with game mechanics relating to renter alliances. Not likely to happen in my lifetime.,. They should encourage it. Its beneficial for the health of the game. They should designed mechanical systems via the diplomacy to make it possible. Its good, it just need to become something controlled. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1783 "2019-08-03T04:12:58Z")
[quote=“Naari\_Naarian, post:1782, topic:176410”] Coalitions take place out of game because its mechanically possible in game to make them work. There are ways to invalidate them from existing in the game with mechanical changes to the diplomacy and overview system. [/quote] Wouldn’t work, you don’t have to be blue to someone to have them in a fleet with you. Same as you don’t need to have a declared war to fight another group. [quote=“Naari\_Naarian, post:1782, topic:176410”] It is possible to some how phase, or prevent people from locking on ships that are engaged in a war for example, requiring you to be part of that war to interact wiht them. [/quote] So you want CCP to totally rewrite the war dec system - How do you see this affecting roaming gangs who want to fight nul entities ? Firstly, as per your suggestion - All fleet members would need to be in the same corp or alliance (kills off many roaming gangs). Second, you would need to have a declared war against whoever you want to fight - So a roaming gang would first have to send war to anybody they are likely to encounter on a roam or risk being unable to fight them due to game mechanics. [quote=“Naari\_Naarian, post:1782, topic:176410”] At some point when its a problem, players will generally stop doing it. [/quote] This is Eve, history shows players will ALWAYS find a way to do what they want to do, regardless of what mechanics surround said activity. [quote=“Naari\_Naarian, post:1782, topic:176410”] They should encourage it. Its beneficial for the health of the game. They should designed mechanical systems via the diplomacy to make it possible. Its good, it just need to become something controlled. [/quote] Honestly in my experience, renter alliances are bot ridden plagues - The game would be far better off without them. If the sov system worked as intended there should be no need for renters. Finally - Exactly how much “control” over how WE use the sandbox would you give to CCP? ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1784 "2019-08-03T05:24:14Z")
> [@Esmerelda\_Virpio](#): > > As for CCP’s numbers I wouldn’t be so quick to trust they’re giving the whole picture, especially when they go on about saying they’re bringing in 16k new subs a week but they’re not staying past the week, so they also have an agenda and it’s to their benefit to say everything is going great as that increases confidence, even if it’s not the case So every week almost 16k people pretty much decide the Eve sucks… and that’s okay? ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1785 "2019-08-03T05:28:49Z")
> [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > Yes they called it “rain of chaos” as that is how a lot of eve will take a balancing. So many people are so entitled that having their golden milk bottle removed will seem like the end of the world. Entitled? Remove all insurance and then see who starts complaining about golden milk bottles being removed. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 5:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1786 "2019-08-03T05:31:23Z")
> [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > You mean besides having spent years living in wormholes, under a lot worse conditions? I’ve been hot dropped in null, never in a WH. Let me know when null catches up. > [@Mark\_Marconi](#): > > Devs don’t operate in Null? Hillmar’s been in WH space doing PI, why do you think the PI interface got an update for the first time in years? Its because Hilmarr thinks its ‘cool’, what’s why any of this stuff is happening. His gameplay is becoming our gameplay, wether we like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1787 "2019-08-03T06:03:28Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Hillmar’s been in WH space doing PI, why do you think the PI interface got an update for the first time in years? Its because Hilmarr thinks its ‘cool’, what’s why any of this stuff is happening. His gameplay is becoming our gameplay, wether we like it or not. ROFL, if that is anything close to true - EVE isn’t dieing - It’s already dead. Many of the problems we have now in game are entirely down to Devs own experiences (or lack thereof) in game. Falcons little ill thought out speech about Eve being harsh and horrible if he had his way - Is the exact reason (thankfully) He is not a Developer. He clearly does not understand the game or for that matter those who play it and why. I would never want to play ANY game that is designed around being "harsh and horrible’.,. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 6:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1788 "2019-08-03T06:08:44Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I’m unsure if you’ve been reading this thread properly or if you have a firm grasp on current events in Eve. :facepalm: > [@Aaron](#): > > I am irritated because up until the blackout I thought everyone still playing Eve was enthusiastic about the game Hasn’t been true for at least 10 years > [@](#): > > and happy to go along with innovative ideas like drifters and Blackout. Neither the drifter assault nor the Blackout were particularly ‘innovative’. The Drifters were a scripted ‘spawn fleets in X systems’ either a dev or GM needed to push button on every morning (which is why there was demonstrably a wave in EUTZ and a wave in USTZ, then nothing in AU cuz nobody was on-duty, _and_ why it completely vanished over the weekend) with a previously-demonstrated fleet composition and AI (in Semiki in February) that pretty much meant ‘ok, gun the astra. Fire bombs at the fleet’s anchor ship. Once you’ve got 4 bombs in flight, web it. -1 Drifter fleet’. And the Blackout was _literally_ ‘flip a switch we’ve been talking about flipping for 15 years and then some’. The Blackout’s got potential, but it’s not particularly “_innovative_”. (Also, yes, I have the entire series + Serenity. Nothing this summer has been anything like that.) > [@Aaron](#): > > So yes I insult the quitters cos they are weak players who depend entirely on local chat immediate mode to do their chosen activity instead of seeing it as an opportunity to learn new skills or new play styles they just quit. For all you know, they’ve had those skills. They’ve done that play style. And they got _bored_ with it. Honestly, the small gang stuff in EVE? It’s boring AF. It’s meaningless. And what’s the payoff, really? An adrenaline spike? Seriously? If you get jazzed by beating on the little kid in the helmet (which, in PvP terms, is what a mining or ratting ship is), I dunno, I don’t think you’ve got a right to call anyone _else_ ‘weak’. If you’re farming tears, and that isn’t something you’ve grown out of inside of a few years… maybe try moving past being twelve? Seriously. That crap’s _dull_. It’s crap I was doing on MUDs in 1990. Gimme the stuff no-where else gives you. The fights no other game in the world offers, and the strategic and espionage maneuverings nothing else online can match. > [@Corvar\_Estidal](#): > > While I respect your right to have a personal opinion, to be frank, I’m not entirely sure if CCP should adopt your vision above or choose to pursue the far more positive one currently being espoused by would-be competitors, such as the game “Star Citizen”… especially since the Company behind that game has already raised **$231,091,756 USD** _(so far)_ for its Development on the strength of their _[much more positive]_ central message… and has over **2,353,233 Players** lined up to participate… **all without even a game to play.** Star Citizen has raised no money on the strength of their central message. Star Citizen has raised an obscene amount of money on the strength of ‘CHRIS ROBERTS IS MAKING A SPACE GAME’. That’s it. Hell, they’ve literally raked in more than 200 million based almost entirely on ‘give us another 50 mil, and we’ll give you ANOTHER PIECE OF CONCEPT ART YOU CAN DOWNLOAD!!’ You could get that on DeviantArt for free. And it’d be better than the stuff CIG’s doing. Their funding is 100% on the Chris Roberts name and (now) sunk-cost fallacies. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > We need a new Sov system, that is not so easy to manipulate and is nothing but a full on grind fest > We need a reason to go out and fight - Why fight someone over space when it has nothing your own space doesn’t have. Honestly who wants to risk taking more space during changes that are slated to make it harder to hold space? We need a balance of power that doesn’t make _getting_ sov depend on having things you can only get by _having_ sov. We need risking everything and _losing_ to not be an unrecoverable proposition. We need the ability to fight a no-holds-barred war that won’t utterly destroy one side or the other’s ability to fight the _next_ war in 18 months. We need to fix the broke-ass crap that is supercapitals, and at this point, that probably means just killing them _all_. ---
**Author:** ![Covenco\_Aideron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/covenco_aideron/32/150067_2.png) [@Covenco\_Aideron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Covenco_Aideron)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1789 "2019-08-03T07:00:49Z")
how long wil this stil on this black out you can be sitting in WH that is saver then nulsec know ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 7:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1790 "2019-08-03T07:55:52Z")
Today’s experiment with local chat, as it affects Null, going “beyond the blackout” has been fascinating. What if local actively _ **lied** _ to players, as it has been doing? (Allegedly due to a problem with the chat servers.) Names randomly popping up, randomly persisting despite pilots leaving the system, and/or disappearing at random time intervals. True chaos! ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1791 "2019-08-03T08:35:12Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > It is possible to some how phase, or prevent people from locking on ships that are engaged in a war for example Sounds a bit like instancing to me ---
**Author:** ![Pakokkie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pakokkie/32/487923_2.png) [@Pakokkie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pakokkie)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 8:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1792 "2019-08-03T08:36:28Z")
You have to be kidding, blackout is not working. They can not even program a silly chat program to do as they whish. In nullsec pilots are showing in local chat again. Can I have some compensation please for ruined gametime? ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 8:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1793 "2019-08-03T08:58:15Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > I’ve been hot dropped in null, never in a WH. Let me know when null catches up. > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/b/ab49ec9a825dc4530be65fc34675dbbbe2237659.jpeg) Mark\_Marconi: Being hot dropped in Null was my introduction to PvP. I does not match the permanent paranoia of WH space. ---
**Author:** ![Milto\_Farroads](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/milto_farroads/32/145201_2.png) [@Milto\_Farroads](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Milto_Farroads)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1794 "2019-08-03T09:04:13Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > > I heard it did not turn out that great as there was less to hunt. > > Heard wrong. The dotlan statistics show PvP deaths were up in nullsec, while lower in high and lowsec. Blackout still needs more data to show anything for certain, but the data so far does not support the claims that PvP went down. The full dotlan statistics also show that pod kills and jumps went down in null sec. Given the triglavian npcs attacks during that period, that increase in ship kills is probably PVE ships and not pvp kills. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 9:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1795 "2019-08-03T09:39:14Z")
Your hypothesis is that _bearing_ went up in null during this period? In fact, it went so far up that the bearing losses _outweighed_ the drop of major wars preceding Blackout, and the claimed lower PvP activity? This does not strike me as a very reasonable stance at this point, I’m afraid. Less pod deaths doesn’t really indicate much but less use of bubbles, and could even be part of the wars cooling down since the large-scale fights are often where people even _desire_ the pod death for a quick reship. Triglobytes derpin’ around does not strike me as even remotely capable of introducing those kinds of numbers. It just relies too heavily on unlikely behaviour patterns from bears, as well as disregarding the likelihood of PvPers taking advantage of Blackout while it lasts. ---
**Author:** ![Onictus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/onictus/32/277200_2.png) [@Onictus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Onictus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1796 "2019-08-03T10:04:15Z")
You made it to null? My first hot-drop-upon was in low sec. Four supers for a 5 man battlecruiser gang. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Marconi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mark_marconi/32/150029_2.png) [@Mark\_Marconi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mark_Marconi)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1797 "2019-08-03T10:19:52Z")
Mine was a carrier on my battleship after I attacked another battleship. I did not last long. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2019, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/1798 "2019-08-03T10:29:23Z")
@Arrendis It seems like you’re in the wrong game mate, You talk as if there is absolutely nothing you like about Eve. I think you should quit and stop posting. > [@Arrendis](#): > > And the Blackout was _literally_ ‘flip a switch we’ve been talking about flipping for 15 years and then some’. The Blackout’s got potential, but it’s not particularly “ _innovative_ ”. If it has been talked about for 15 years then why are so many shocked to the extent they are quitting the game? I think the complainers should just give CCP a break they are trying to make Eve interesting at least. The dynamics of local being turned off are interesting and should be explored. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=87) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=89)