# Local is probably never going away in NS **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499 "2018-01-21T16:19:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Rocket\_Hellfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rocket_hellfire/32/396905_2.png) [@Rocket\_Hellfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rocket_Hellfire)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/61 "2018-01-25T19:54:30Z")
Pro-Tip. If you want to feel less safe I have 2 recommendations. 1. Close your local tab. If you don’t, you are a flaming hypcrite. 2. Live in a wormhole. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/62 "2018-01-25T20:32:35Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > What advantage over whom? They will park cloaky bots at entry points, on eitehr side, even wormholes (and then move them around), then spam anything that shows up even briefly on overview either into intel channels or external chat for alerts. When something bigger or semi-predictable is going on they can man the ships usually operated by bots, often times taking turns, either on different players sometimes corps or alliances, or just share the account, for greater accuracy, additional info or functionality, then once things cool off go back to botting. External apps can actually calculate local somewhat. There will be discrepencies but if something bigger is going on the rough count will be more then adequate. Thats the advantage. An offensive force can do likewise or similar, but they have to start weeks or even months in advance, putting toons in the said system and letting them idle or logged off until needed. Therefore, additional advantage defenders. However, I still think there would be a lot more overall action going on if local were removed and not replaced with anything then otherwise. You’d be surprised just how bad some people are at paying attention to those intel channels, they get complacent, or sometimes are close to site completion and want to risk it for the loot, etc. I know this first hand from both sides of the fence 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/63 "2018-01-25T20:36:35Z")
Im on favour of local removal, but I dont think your reply really clarifies whatever the person I was answering was saying. Defender usualky has advantage in most circumstances in conflict. Given that Null have nothing that High want, Im not sure why they could be perceived as having more advantage with local removal. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/64 "2018-01-25T23:51:57Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > We dont know that either of those will be the case Agreed but we do know current local works on magic 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/65 "2018-01-25T23:53:30Z")
> [@Trixie\_Lawless](#): > > CCP should probably invent an area of the game to satisfy the wants and needs of people who dislike local. Maybe a place with special kinds of rats that drop loot worth stupid amounts of isk to reward those players who want to live there. Maybe set up a unique entry and exit system that makes an impact on peoples daily routines so they feel more immersed in their area. > > i’ll petition CCP and see if I can get them to whip something up for you. We could call it Felucca. ---
**Author:** ![JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/justified_arrogance/32/263131_2.png) [@JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/66 "2018-01-26T08:54:56Z")
> [@GoPackGo\_Aurilen](#): > > The ratting in the safety of local gets a little silly at times in ns. One neutral jumps in and everyone is insta docking. > > Local isn’t going away, I’ve accepted that, but what about a class of ships that cause the player to be invisible to local? They still show up on d-scan and can’t covert ops cloak. Their tank and dps would be a little weaker than their counterparts as well. > > Would the howls from NS bear corps kill an idea like this? There is already a place where this form of playstyle exists, making two areas of EVE game play more and more alike, hurts the game it doesnt help. I have seen this homogenization of gaming in other games like WOW this is a common request in games as they age, the reasoning always boils down to making things more, ‘fair’. In this case you are trying to make things more fair between predator and prey. The problem with homogenization is that it NEVER adds anything to a game and ALWAYS takes something away. Currently i can choose to go to a wormhole and i get the game play that you are offering or i can play in nullsec and play under the current nullsec local rules. After your idea i am stripped of the option of nullsec’s current local rules option and given nothing in return, since i could play the style you want in a wormhole. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/67 "2018-01-26T09:24:01Z")
> [@JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](#): > > There is already a place where this form of playstyle exists, making two areas of EVE game play more and more alike, hurts the game it doesnt help. Pfft. NS and WHs have very little in common. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/68 "2018-01-26T14:20:39Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > > [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > > > the residents advantage in null would become gigantic > > What advantage over whom? The advantage over those who are not residents invading/hunting/aggressing their space in terms of usable intel. Right now both invaders and residents have local. Making the “local intel” dependent on an “observation array” means that only residents get that intel. It tips the balance toward the “carebearing” party. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/69 "2018-01-26T20:54:36Z")
A cloaked Recon Cruiser would get the same “advantage” as anyone else who could see who was coming in. Of course the defenders have advantage, its why null is so intractable. I thought you meant something more than they already had. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/70 "2018-01-26T21:02:49Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > A cloaked Recon Cruiser would get the same “advantage” as anyone else who could see who was coming in. > > Of course the defenders have advantage, its why null is so intractable. I thought you meant something more than they already had. It is more of an advantage than currently with local. The observatories (as suggested) would give locals something akin to local now (in terms of seeing others in the system). Since hunters are not likely dropping structures, they would not have this “replacement for local” intel source. Right now when a red enters, both see a list of who’s present. If only the locals see that list, they can still run for safety while it takes the hunter much longer to even ascertain if anyone is present. That’s a bigger advantage, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/71 "2018-01-26T21:07:03Z")
Like I said, I thought you meant something more than they already had. Sorry for the inconvenience. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/72 "2018-01-26T21:47:04Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Like I said, I thought you meant something more than they already had. > > Sorry for the inconvenience. Well, there’s talk that they might be able to detect cloaked ships too in some manner, block D-scan and even block aspects of the star map filters. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/73 "2018-01-26T21:53:13Z")
Well, I dont think those things will be in Null before they are in High these days, the way things are going. But yeah I see your point. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/74 "2018-01-27T18:13:27Z")
> [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > Well, there’s **_talk_** that they might be able to detect cloaked ships too in some manner, block D-scan and even block aspects of the star map filters. Maybe it could also automatically target cloaked ships? People in 1.0 space should not “talk”… ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/75 "2018-01-29T14:23:39Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > > [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > > > Well, there’s **_talk_** that they might be able to detect cloaked ships too in some manner, block D-scan and even block aspects of the star map filters. > > Maybe it could also automatically target cloaked ships? > > People in 1.0 space should not “talk”… That “talk” was from a CCP developer. CCP Ytterbium specifically. “Observatory Arrays focus on intelligence gathering and disruption tools, like tampering with Star Map filters, D-scan disruption, ship intelligence disruption, player tracking capabilities or being able to pinpoint cloak users” ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/76 "2018-01-29T15:43:08Z")
either way works, wormholers are on the insides of their holes and theres not local there, which is what everyone wants is no local just without wanting to move to a wormhole. While we are lets remove the ability to set a destination too. ---
**Author:** ![Tzar\_Sinak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tzar_sinak/32/39415_2.png) [@Tzar\_Sinak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tzar_Sinak)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/77 "2018-01-29T18:17:13Z")
Like so many things in EvE: Local (as it is today) in hisec; delayed local in lowsec; no local in nulsec/wh. Would that really be so bad? Different yes. Bad? Of course not. Live in a wh for awhile. You’ll get use to it and accept whatever risk to knowingly choose. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/78 "2018-01-29T18:23:05Z")
> [@Tzar\_Sinak](#): > > Like so many things in EvE: Local (as it is today) in hisec; delayed local in lowsec; no local in nulsec/wh. Would that really be so bad? Different yes. Bad? Of course not. Live in a wh for awhile. You’ll get use to it and accept whatever risk to knowingly choose. It would make null a lot more dangerous than wormholes (as no local + cloak + cyno is much more dangerous than no local + cloak + no cyno). I don’t think it would help the typical hunters in null. It would likely drive some of the risk adverse people away… but many of them are also the easiest targets to catch. Targets would be few, and those available would likely have backup so you better be a dropper rather than a solo or small group hunter. I think it would end up making everyone other than people playing in wormholes have less fun… and those people are already having fun with that game style in wormholes. But yes… we’d get used to it… or stop playing. That can be said about pretty much any change to the game. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/79 "2018-01-29T18:35:09Z")
To me WH and Null is apples and oranges, a distraction from the actual topic which is null space. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499/80 "2018-01-29T18:38:56Z")
> [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > That “talk” was from a CCP developer. CCP Ytterbium specifically. > > “Observatory Arrays focus on intelligence gathering and disruption tools, like tampering with Star Map filters, D-scan disruption, ship intelligence disruption, player tracking capabilities or being able to pinpoint cloak users” And has a range of what? 10k 50k? Point being local is “magic” and has no range limit within the current system. I’d love to read the whole thing is you have the link. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-is-probably-never-going-away-in-ns/52499.md?page=5)