LOL moon mining in highsec = nerf

This is an argument that never ceases to amaze me.

That ship you’re enjoying your style of play in, started by being mined by “farmer trash”

Then it was built by an industrial character who may have never flown in anything other than their corvette, and has never once had guns turned on them.

Now the market warrior who faces opponents in a margin war throughout the trade hubs, spends their time giving you the equipment you need at appropriate market rates, all from the safety of the station.

By this logic, let’s get these incompetent pilots out of eve forever. How does the game look now that there are no ships, guns, and ammunition you use to engage in PvP activities?

I assume you’re not going to build that ship, you’re making it quite clear that is beneath someone of your status.

They’re not playing the game wrong, the balance is off. As luck would have it CCP is working to resolve this.

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You mean like the spaceships and their underwater mechanics? :stuck_out_tongue:

While the base logic of this argument make sense, in EvE, like in most MMO, there is MUCH more farming and crafting players than what is actually NEEDED for the game to work properly. Sometimes, there is so many of them that they are detrimentals to themself, since too much abundance of something result in the prices constantly getting lower and lower, making it hard to properly make a living of a crafting/industry job in the game.

So yes. You are absolutely right, if we loose ALL of those players, we do have a problem.

On the other hand, you should also be conscious that we have quite a margin of industrials/farming players that the game can in fact get ride of, before facing any negative consequences.

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You mean… removed the ores from moons and just leave the goo?

You should probably suggest this to them cos it isn’t EXACTLY what they have said they are going to do.

You’re missing some of the nuance here. Industrialists are good for Eve. Miners/gathers are good for Eve. Such things are integral to the design of the game and almost everyone who plays this game does these roles at times.

Eve is a persistent, war and economy sandbox game. Hating “industrialists” is indeed dumb as gathering and building are core parts of the game.

The hate isn’t for this. It is for the “farmers” sometime known as “carebears” - players who demand safety and immunity from the shared virtual world to play their wealth accumulation/gradual progression game while still retaining the ability to participate in the shared economy. These selfish, short-sighted types insist that they should somehow be allowed to not participate in the competition and conflict of New Eden, while having access to all opportunities a competitive market offers an industrialist.

Not all industrialists are farmers. In fact, most aren’t and understand the competitive game they are playing. But there is a significant and vocal minority that constantly agitate for easier farming, for safer farming, for more lucrative farming, and CCP has coddled and indulged these farmers for far too long which has caused serious harm to the core game of Eve.

So yes, while we all appreciate the hard work of the industrialists of New Eden keeping us in fine ships, you’l find there isn’t much sympathy for the farmers and their tears over the game being slightly rebalanced. There are plenty of other games where you a guaranteed continual, uninterrupted progression they can go play, while there are precious few options for a virtual world experience like Eve out there. Let the “farmer trash” go there.

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I’d say the same about your argument.

Mining and industry is done by a variety of players, including pvp players and people that appreciate the sandbox for what it is.

If the ‘farmer trash’ and carebears were all gone tomorrow you’d still have miners and industrialists left. It’s never going to get to a point that zero players mine, because the profession would be so lucrative at that point more players would start mining.

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Bollocks. There are other ways.

Nope. As Black Pedro said, “farmer trash” does not refer to all people who ever do industry stuff, or even all players who do PvE. It’s a label for the lazy risk-averse players who feel that they are entitled to maximum ISK per hour farming without any chance of loss or disruption, the players who constantly whine about how it’s unfair that PvP exists or that PvE is “too difficult” and can’t be AFK farmed. They are almost always terrible at EVE, people who are only capable of the most menial farming tasks and have no hope of success unless CCP gives them easy mode.

If all of the farmer trash was removed from EVE none of the remaining players would notice or care. There would still be plenty of industry players who understand that industry in EVE is a ruthless game of competitive capitalism and would continue to supply the economy with everything it needs.

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You’re obviously confused, unless you propose mission running should be the only way to obtain a ship.

This is easily contradicted by the fact that any time mining is brought up in the forums and very often in game you’re virtually guaranteed to find a stream of comments about how they’re cancer, trash, or aren’t playing the game properly.

I can agree with you here, this isn’t a game for people who can’t handle risk. And it shouldn’t ever try to be “space Farmville”

Looks to me like this exact issue is being addressed, will take some time to see if they pull it off.

in all reality they pretty much have an area they can enjoy this style of play.

High Sec allows for a virtually PvP free experience, and if that’s how they want to play well good for them, they can have it.

There is absolutely a place for an area in the game that supports that type of gameplay. Without it the player base would dry up as there would be no area to learn in.

The risk-reward aspect is something that they’re just going to have to live with. Regardless of what insults you throw their way they’ll continue to complain and nothing productive will come of it.

Except the farmer trash regularly complains that highsec isn’t good enough. Wars exist, suicide ganking exists, and the ISK per hour isn’t as good as nullsec. So they whine incessantly about removing the PvP threats and giving higher rewards for farming.

Wars absolutely need some serious attention, that’s a whole different topic though.

Suicide ganking in my opinion is just dumb, but it exists so that’s why I said virtually PvP free. Most players will rarely if ever have this problem.

Let them whine about isk/hour in what is effectively the training zone. Ultimately you make more than enough in high sec to support the gameplay there.

Well in the market category, the Moon rocks are under the Moon Ore category.

And they all are primarily Trit/Pyerite based and mexallon.

But depending on the types as they get better you “can” get all the minerals depending on the exact ore type that you would from regular ore.

My thought on this, is such a change would maybe be cool that way…then of course actual moongoo would not primarily be in NS, it could be found anywhere on any moon…and the higher types would indeed be exceptional or rare giving maybe some content on who owns or ninja mines an owners moon belts fro the best stuff.

of course refining moongoo should be kept of HS. so HS might be able to get all the raw moongoo they want but need to go out of HS to refine it into useable indy materials.

No, I am not. Minerals can be acquired looting modules from npc wrecks.

You must be confused. High sec is the single worst place to learn EvE.

That’s because a lot of them are.

Take the people whining about the ec changes or about the ore distribution changes. How many have said their game is ‘ruined’ because their rewards have been nerfed and they’re gonna ‘unsub’. Now these are both changes that are necessary for a healthy game. But the trash put their selfish entitlement above all else. Hence why they won’t be missed.

And it’s this kind of thinking that resulted in overfarming. Which lead to these nerfs and roaming trigs.

Pvp is a necessary counter balance to rewards, even in hi-sec.

Hard to agree.

Historically players stuck around more under a higher risk of pvp. Players that are killed illegally are sticking round longer too.

Protecting players from eachother hasn’t helped by any measurable means. It has instead meant there is little for new players to do but grind in hi-sec which makes it impossible to compete with vets and is boring them out of the game.

The problem is that if your playstyle is PvE, industry, trading, hauling or mining, you’re fine on your own and don’t really care about how other people play ‘their’ way. The actual problem is caused by the lame, weaksauce pretend-PvPers. The ones so bad at it that they can’t really compete. Those folks absolutely need a steady stream stream of low-experience, low-SP, preferably poorly fit targets flying semi-valuable packages in order to feed and fund their playstyle.

Without other players providing easily accessible and easily defeated targets, these PvP-posers are absolutely at a loss as to how to pretend they are doing something interesting. Thus, anyone who adopts a playstyle that isn’t “easy target potential” is to be hated and despised. The more contempt they spew, the more desperately they need the easy victims to validate their own internal issues.

You may notice that virtually none of the common household “PvP trolls” on the forum even PvP in any meaningful manner. They’re all just bitter wannabes, constantly crying that “CCP and the mean mean players are taking their toys away”. It’s sad, really.

^^ Case in point. ^^ (Not that there’s any shortage of those.)

Fortunately, CCP started squeezing this type of ‘PvP trash’ out of the game years ago. There aren’t really a lot of them left. A few tryhards can’t get their fix anywhere else though, so they still hang around the forums to vent their bitterness and frustration.

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You miss the point. They are removing “basic ores” from moons - not “minerals”. They are different things. Brilliant Gneiss is classed as a “basic ore” whereas Cobaltite is not.

Ores - not minerals.

Only if you’re bad at those things. If you’re good at them you understand that EVE is a multiplayer game, other people competing for your resources and ISK are not your friends, and you aren’t living in your own private world.

For example, smart miners want lots of suicide ganking because they’re smart enough to minimize the threat to themselves and every freighter gank drives more demand for minerals and higher prices for the stuff they mine. From the point of view of a smart miner the farmer trash are a threat that needs to STFU and go back to WoW instead of lobbying CCP to flood the market with excess production and drive down prices.

Those folks absolutely need a steady stream stream of low-experience, low-SP, preferably poorly fit targets flying semi-valuable packages in order to feed and fund their playstyle.

Which is why I regularly express my contempt for useless perma-victims and tell them to go back to WoW, and state that everyone in EVE should be prepared for PvP at all times…

The reality is that we want fewer easy targets because those easy targets depend on farmer trash infesting the game and telling new players that victory is impossible, that the only way they can “win” against veteran players is to whine on the forums and demand PvP nerfs. We want a game where smart PvE and industry players are not easy targets because they use the available tools to defend themselves.

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Really? Like this like never happens in my experience outside of either people role-playing, or the odd tough guy puffing their chest. If someone asks a question about mining, people answer it, discuss it like it is a normal part of the game and so forth.

The only time there is disdain is when people start going all “farmer” and bragging about how efficient their multiboxed min/max set up is, or worse, whine about having to compete and start complaining about gankers, or their yield isn’t enough or they have to pay attention to their game client.

That is the game - harvesting resources in an environment where you are competing with other players, both for the resources and directly, through PvP combat. Those that whine that it is too hard, or it isn’t the FarmVille-in-space game they (think they) want to be playing are going to provoke a reaction.

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