# Looking for mercs to teach BLACKFLAG a lesson **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [November 2, 2022, 1:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740 "2022-11-02T01:54:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Carlos\_Warren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/carlos_warren/32/375535_2.png) [@Carlos\_Warren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Carlos_Warren)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 3:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/67 "2022-11-03T03:29:54Z")
Who is this “we pushed” for changes? Not everyone is part of a nullsec power bloc, some of us like just doing our own thing and we need to have some means of evening the odds when faced with a larger group. The offensive capabilities of a citadel should be on par with a deathstar POS. Maybe engineering complexes and refineries are fine as they are, it makes sense that them being more squishy is a fair trade off in return for the industry bonuses they have. But actual citadels like Astrahus/Fortizar/Keepstar are meant to be the “military” citadel, and as such they should be capable of inflicting heavy losses on even the most well prepared fleets. I’m sorry, but the idea that people should be able to go up against a KEEPSTAR (Not just any citadel but the King of citadels) and not suffer a SINGLE LOSS is quite frankly absurd. An overwhelming fleet should _win_ against it, but they should suffer loss as well. If they work well as a fleet they should be able to minimize those losses but they should never be able to completely eliminate all the risk and not even lose a single ship. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 3:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/68 "2022-11-03T03:33:03Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > Our corporation has just launched a war against two of the main superpower coalitions. I take it you haven’t heard about us or our stance on nullsec, basically our vision is that it should be lots of independent small groups battling it out instead of superpowers and titan blobs. You are going to achieve this with a 12 man corp ? ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 3:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/69 "2022-11-03T03:33:28Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > some of us like just doing our own thing and we need to have some means of evening the odds when faced with a larger group. Your choice to be antisocial is your decision. Take responsibility for your decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Carlos\_Warren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/carlos_warren/32/375535_2.png) [@Carlos\_Warren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Carlos_Warren)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 3:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/70 "2022-11-03T03:36:55Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > You are going to achieve this with a 12 man corp ? Not on our own. The idea is that when people see one group rising up and challenging the existing nullsec powers, more and more people will join in attacking them and eventually we can overthrow the existing superpowers. Titan blobs, and massive coalitions shouldn’t exist, it’s not healthy for the game. Nullsec should be lots of little independent corps all battling it out and that is our ultimate goal. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 3:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/71 "2022-11-03T03:43:44Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > The idea is that when people see one group rising up and challenging the existing nullsec powers, more and more people will join in attacking them and eventually we can overthrow the existing superpowers. A worthy cause, in my view. The problem being that its how some of the existing superpowers came into being in the first place. Personally I think null blocs should have a much harder time dealing with NPC factions…there should be greater natural attrition. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 3:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/72 "2022-11-03T03:55:27Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > That seems like a broken mechanic to me It’s more of a misunderstaning than a broken mechanic. Upwell structures aren’t meant to replace a good defensive fleet. They are meant to be a force multiplier, so your defensive fleet has some advantage against the enemy. If you try to just use the Upwell structure alone, it will die. There’s nothing broken about that. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 3:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/73 "2022-11-03T03:55:31Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Take responsibility for your decisions. Indeed, 1 billion for starters , followed by: > [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > I am sorry. I was wrong. > Will you please forgive me? > What can I do to make it right? ---
**Author:** ![Carlos\_Warren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/carlos_warren/32/375535_2.png) [@Carlos\_Warren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Carlos_Warren)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 5:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/74 "2022-11-03T05:16:18Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > It’s more of a misunderstaning than a broken mechanic. Upwell structures aren’t meant to replace a good defensive fleet. They are meant to be a force multiplier, so your defensive fleet has some advantage against the enemy. > > If you try to just use the Upwell structure alone, it will die. Well I disagree I don’t think they should be a “force multiplier” at all. They should be formidable even as a standalone platform. ---
**Author:** ![God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/god_emperor_kane/32/399336_2.png) [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/God_Emperor_Kane)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/75 "2022-11-03T05:56:25Z")
It is because of BS post like these that is going to make us focus on your corp. Milking this as long as I can. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/f/b/ffb35635ce47bbb04e471f7918aa8c1a8182d71c.jpeg) Day 2, we reinforce shields. You call that chasing us off. Day 3, we kill an unimportant structure (your WarHQ, the one you used to declare war). And then promptly comes to the forums to complain about loosing the unimportant structure. Also, you need to undock to loose ships. I still don’t see any loses on our side. Unsure what you are talking as I checked our killboards, yours and the war report. I just see your loses. You know, we cannot kill a Sot or Fort, drop those as a war HQ. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 6:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/76 "2022-11-03T06:30:18Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > Well I disagree I don’t think they should be a “force multiplier” at all. You can disagree all you want, but thats the way CCP designed them. They arent designed to be manned by one person and win on their own. That was a specifc design choice as a result of the way POS defences worked in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/77 "2022-11-03T09:10:48Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > I do not agree to disagree. Dunno why but this made me laugh. 🤭 ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/78 "2022-11-03T13:18:06Z")
> [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](#): > > Also, you need to undock to loose ships. I still don’t see any loses on our side Umm, he’s pretty sure you guys have suffered significant drone losses. Faction drones even. If you need to start a GoFundMe to recover let me know I’ll put the word out. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/79 "2022-11-03T16:31:56Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Take responsibility for your decisions. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/8/a/78a684553433b46566d03315661fbf8d5e1da014.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/80 "2022-11-03T17:01:04Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > Who is this “we pushed” for changes? The CSM. > [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > Not everyone is part of a nullsec power bloc, some of us like just doing our own thing and we need to have some means of evening the odds when faced with a larger group. The offensive capabilities of a citadel should be on par with a deathstar POS. Maybe engineering complexes and refineries are fine as they are, it makes sense that them being more squishy is a fair trade off in return for the industry bonuses they have. But actual citadels like Astrahus/Fortizar/Keepstar are meant to be the “military” citadel, and as such they should be capable of inflicting heavy losses on even the most well prepared fleets. This game is twenty years old. The issue of “what do we do when the other guy has more people” has been part of the game from the beginning. What do you do? You hire some mercs. You make new friends and build alliances. You go recruit more people and build your group. This is what folks have been doing for a while. Citadels are way too cheap for them to be “military powerhouses” that can hold off dozens and dozens of ships. There is no reason, however, why a 600 mil isk Astrahus should be able to stop a dozen blinged ships. That makes no sense gameplay-wise and it makes no sense lore wise. > [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > I’m sorry, but the idea that people should be able to go up against a KEEPSTAR (Not just any citadel but the King of citadels) and not suffer a SINGLE LOSS is quite frankly absurd. An overwhelming fleet should _win_ against it, but they should suffer loss as well. If they work well as a fleet they should be able to minimize those losses but they should never be able to completely eliminate all the risk and not even lose a single ship. There may be a bit of hyperbole, because Keepstars can and do kill plenty of people screwing around with them, but the bottom line is if you are smart and bring the right comp, the Keep won’t be able to stop you from killing it. And again, that’s exactly how it should be, because these structures should not be so powerful they deter fleet fights on their grids. The entire point of these structures is to provide content, not deter it, and that’s how they were win the past. The bottom line is the best way to defend your structures is with a fleet, supported by the structure. Not the structure itself. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/81 "2022-11-03T17:28:17Z")
> [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](#): > > It is because of BS post like these that is going to make us focus on your corp. Milking this as long as I can. So, revisiting the title, what is the lesson BLACKFLAG is learning here? ---
**Author:** ![God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/god_emperor_kane/32/399336_2.png) [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/God_Emperor_Kane)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/82 "2022-11-03T17:42:47Z")
It is ok… Their members already started leaving corp. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/83 "2022-11-03T17:48:21Z")
> [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](#): > > Their members already started leaving corp. Imagine their surprise when they didn’t win EVE after buying an Astra ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/84 "2022-11-03T17:48:36Z")
> [@Carlos\_Warren](#): > > and someone said in local he’d pay us to dec him and so we did. Do you always listen to what people say in local? ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/85 "2022-11-03T17:50:01Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > So, revisiting the title, what is the lesson BLACKFLAG is learning here? Dont pick on a little corp. Otherwise their corp leader might post on the forums to cry and say mean things to them. Im sure God Emperor Kanes feelings are hurt realy bad. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740/86 "2022-11-03T17:50:12Z")
> [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](#): > > Their members already started leaving corp. On a related note, can I join your corp. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/looking-for-mercs-to-teach-blackflag-a-lesson/382740.md?page=5)