# Lvl 4 & lvl 5 missions **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 9, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227 "2023-10-09T15:36:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/196 "2023-11-11T15:57:38Z")
> [@Prometheus\_XRay](#): > > Null has rats, why can’t HS have something equal? HS has the same things called “rats” oO > [@Prometheus\_XRay](#): > > I can make ten times more in Null by ratting. and i can make 10 times more in WH as in nullsec … where is your point ? ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/197 "2023-11-11T22:07:15Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > What would be the hoped-for outcome from doing this? This tunes down outlier income sources. Just so we are clear: proper burner setup can net you half a bil per hour. > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > Surely you don’t believe HS mission runners are going to go to LS and start running burners. It would just take the burners away from them. Good. Then take away burners. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/198 "2023-11-11T22:10:56Z")
> [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > your ideas kill HS and you cant do anything useful in HS ! this results in a major loss of player and CCP will close the servers ! Yeah. Ax’l Thorne is absolutist in his view. Instead of targetting outliers and cutting that he instead believes in removing everything - even L3 missions. Hell, I can personally say that the main reason why many missions pay decently well nowadays is that much of loot ballooned in value (due to mineral content - mostly isogen and nocxium). ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/199 "2023-11-11T22:20:52Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > Yes, lots and lots of areas get farmed, but just because some areas _do_ doesn’t mean that it’s okay of L3 and L4 missions _should_ I will never understand why you are so absolutist in the view of targetting even L3 missions… they don’t pay much, even when you optimize them. > [@Prometheus\_XRay](#): > > They’re hardly worth running as it is. L4 missions, hardly worth running as it is? The income from L4s is at least comparable to Sansha incursions in HS. > [@Vuhdo\_Rin](#): > > and i can make 10 times more in WH as in nullsec … where is your point ? I have hard time believing he can make 1-5B / h ratting in null. Hell, angel extravaganza alone is 100M isk (with loot) - it is 40 minutes in covop ham loki. Hardly an optimal ship for running missions (it runs them well, but just under 1K dps is even not comparable to marauders). I can believe 1-5B / h running anoms / sigs in C5/C6 jspace. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/200 "2023-11-11T22:23:00Z")
If you remove L3/L4 missions (burners isn’t necessarily a deal-breaker for many) from high-sec, you’ll just see a lot of people log off (you can make decent money extracting and selling skill injectors anyway). I don’t see how that benefits anyone. Right now if people play you have a chance at their money (and even more so with the Faction Warfare changes in a few days). Docked up there’s zero content for anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 10:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/201 "2023-11-11T22:58:05Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > I will never understand why you are so absolutist in the view of targetting even L3 missions… they don’t pay much, even when you optimize them. That’s because I was taking a piss and having fun poking at you and getting a reaction from you. L3 pay ■■■■, and jack with one’s faction reputation the most. So it’s terrible. And would be even more terrible to move them to low. As for L4’s if you took the time to read further on you would see that I’m not actually a proponent for moving them to low. Even though, I do run my 4’s out of low personally, but only because I like the thrill. Not everyone does. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doctor_nijushiho/32/385189_2.png) [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Doctor_Nijushiho)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/202 "2023-11-12T02:03:36Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > Just so we are clear: proper burner setup can net you half a bil per hour. dude, please. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 6:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/203 "2023-11-12T06:42:24Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > dude, please. Yes, doing burners for stores with high isk to lp ratio you can make as much as half a bil per hour doing burners. Although you are likely to be multiboxing them for better pulls. How much do you think you can make with burners? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doctor_nijushiho/32/385189_2.png) [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Doctor_Nijushiho)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/204 "2023-11-12T13:39:57Z")
Been doing them since they were created. Given the number of regular missions needed to maintain standings, the fact that they sometimes require 3 or 4 gate jumps back and forth, and the time to do them, I’ve seen myself do 70 million in an hour but not consistently. So half a billion is shocking if true. I’ve picked a pretty good LP store and a good item to buy and sell using fuzzworks. I’ve experimented with other items which have better profit but sell slower (or never sell). Must be an LP store and item I haven’t found. That’s easy to fix without nerfing burners. Just make the item more available. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/205 "2023-11-12T14:58:18Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > they sometimes require 3 or 4 gate jumps Shitty location. Look for well connected constellation with an L4 agent in a 0.5 system. > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > I’ve seen myself do 70 million in an hour Geez, that is low. There are plenty of L4 missions that pay 100M on their own. My last angel extravaganza was 90M by itself (with loot, but that is a matter of dropping MTU and picking it up with BR later). Is your system even 0.5 ? Asking, because sec status has a big impact on payouts. > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > So half a billion is shocking if true. I do 150-200M/h with HAM Loki w/o burners. Burner reward is nearly 14K LP (which is at this moment worth more than 30M isk in that store). And that is LP alone. Add bounty, ISK reward and potential loot to this and you can easily see this number go up. > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > I’ve picked a pretty good LP store Define “pretty good”. People talk about SOE being good, but in reality it is quite ■■■■ - other than the strong veilguard booster bpc… assuming you can make it yourself. Otherwise you won’t make much isk on it - and the market is quite small as well. I run for a corp with a couple items that are worth 2K+ isk per LP to Jita buy, with an agent in 0.5 system that is also in a hyperconnected constellation thus very rarely I have to do more than 1 jump (2 at most). There is occasional courier mission (in the midst of deadspace part 2) that can send me 5 jumps away (into lowsec, but that is a non-issue). > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > Must be an LP store and item I haven’t found. That’s easy to fix without nerfing burners. Just make the item more available. Making item more available will lower the value of item, and thus of LP. Did you make sure to also look at blueprints? Those tend to be highly profitable… if you make the item yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doctor_nijushiho/32/385189_2.png) [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Doctor_Nijushiho)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/206 "2023-11-12T16:51:34Z")
Thanks for the response. Obviously my constellation, store, and product I am buying with LP is negatively impacting my potential ISK generation. I have some spreadsheets to reference. Back to the question of nerfing high sec mission running, your post also highlights the controls CCP could use to make the half billion an hour impossible without blowing away everyone’s burners and L4 missions: - Disconnect some gates in hyper connected constellations - Move some agents out of .5 systems to .6 or higher - Take some of the most valuable LP store items and have NPCs sell them cheap elsewhere to devalue them and take away that LP/ISK ratio on that item from mission runners I don’t think they are going to do any of that, though, so I’ll take your advice to hunt for a better system and a product in a better store. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/207 "2023-11-13T11:02:57Z")
> [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > Disconnect some gates in hyper connected constellations Why should we? Besides, even not hyperconnected constellations can be good - if you have agent in a station in the middle of the constellation. This way you won’t be getting sent far. > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > Move some agents out of .5 systems to .6 or higher Why? Because the rewards are higher in 0.5? But so are the risks of getting ganked. > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > Take some of the most valuable LP store items and have NPCs sell them cheap elsewhere to devalue them and take away that LP/ISK ratio on that item from mission runners Those items are valuable because they are used a lot. No one is going to pay for explosive shield hardeners (especially when even pith-x are cheap) or em armor hardeners (same story - x-types are cheap). > [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](#): > > without blowing away everyone’s burners and L4 missions Just for the reference, I only talk about burners. I do believe that L4 missions in general are in a healthy state in general, burners being the only exception. Mostly because risks are too low compared to the reward. Most other really high paying missions do so in loot - which can be intercepted. I have had to deal with MTU hunters and baiters a bunch of time already. It is a risk one shouldn’t ignore (but also lets not go overboard with it - it just is there) ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/doctor_nijushiho/32/385189_2.png) [@Doctor\_Nijushiho](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Doctor_Nijushiho)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/208 "2023-11-13T12:27:39Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > I only talk about burners. I do believe that L4 missions in general are in a healthy state in general I think I misunderstood you. When you were above saying “this tunes down income sources,” I took that to mean that you thought L4 mission running with burners needed to be nerfed in some way. So I was offering some other ways to nerf income from them without losing the variability of burner missions. It’s nice to have a lot of varied content, imo, so I would rather attack income from them if that is needed for game balance. I am not a game theorist, though, so I really don’t know whether or not the game is in balance or out of balance. It seems to always be out of balance with adjustments made to move the imbalance around to keep things fresh. ---
**Author:** ![loki\_energon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loki_energon/32/444208_2.png) [@loki\_energon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/loki_energon)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/209 "2023-12-03T19:42:21Z")
Hahaha ya, 13 sec align time in hostile space requires either big cajones, or an empty server. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/210 "2023-12-04T00:40:01Z")
> [@loki\_energon](#): > > requires either big cajones at first you need the knowlegde ! if you dont have this then your cojones arenot useful ! you will die ! ---
**Author:** ![hambogen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hambogen/32/423904_2.png) [@hambogen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/hambogen)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/211 "2024-06-13T14:50:52Z")
[https://www.eveworkbench.com/fitting/machariel/a3b89da0-1aca-430b-7d19-08db6c3c2e24](https://www.eveworkbench.com/fitting/machariel/a3b89da0-1aca-430b-7d19-08db6c3c2e24) i used to use something like this but just keep transversal, either way not sure where your ship fitting skills or race are so my best answer is go to workbench and see where you stand for your abilities not every man and his dogs abilities. o/ ---
**Author:** ![Zercix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zercix/32/378921_2.png) [@Zercix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zercix)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227/212 "2024-06-14T23:30:09Z")
I have a history of using an assault frigate to run level 4s in a quiet low sec region until I was able to build my own BS. I have access to level 5s but don’t have the connections to group up to run them plus I have never run a level 5. Good thing I am not about the isk 😆 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lvl-4-lvl-5-missions/423227.md?page=8)