# Macha vs. Loki for lvl3 blitz **URL:** \ **Category:** PvE Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [December 31, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424 "2017-12-31T05:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/1 "2017-12-31T05:06:36Z")
Hello folks, today been talking in corp chat with dif people and trying ti help newbie about his request on proper ship for lvl 3 missions. SO as usual a Macha name popped up which i counter with newer alternative a Loki. [Loki, lvl3 blitz] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Gyrostabilizer II x2 IFFA Compact Damage Control Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 200 Gist C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Gistum C-Type 10MN Afterburner Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field 720mm Howitzer Artillery II x5 , Quake M [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II x2 Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array Loki Defensive - Augmented Durability Loki Core - Dissolution Sequencer Warrior II x5 please leave your thoughts or maybe could share your experience if any of you have run those with loki. thx ---
**Author:** ![Ploing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ploing/32/466885_2.png) [@Ploing](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ploing)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/2 "2017-12-31T17:28:41Z")
please post in a proper pyfa or eft format. no one will rebuild the fit manuallly. at a first look you got a bit more warpspeed and way less dps. see also the l3 mach vs railgu thread at the old forums. [https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=408949](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=408949) ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/3 "2017-12-31T17:59:56Z")
its 1bn isk fit too expensive for lvl 3 anc is bad arty is slow try cynabal instead ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Little](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/do_little/32/411571_2.png) [@Do\_Little](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Do_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/4 "2017-12-31T18:29:45Z")
Suggesting that a new player should look at either a Machariel or a Loki for level 3 missions is ridiculous. Odds are they will outgrow L3 missions before they train the support skills to fly either ship properly. I used a Gnosis for L3 missions - they’re cheap, easy to fit, forgiving of new player mistakes and bonused for whatever weapon system they want to use. If you really want to spend more, a Gila or Cynabal will clear L3s a lot faster than a battleship and a lot cheaper than a T3C. ---
**Author:** ![Nikea\_Tiber](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nikea_tiber/32/134445_2.png) [@Nikea\_Tiber](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nikea_Tiber)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/5 "2017-12-31T19:13:28Z")
Mach is overkill for blitzing L3s; large guns means your dps projection and application are worse than you think. At the very least, you will be downshipping 1 size (BS shooting a BC), though most of your targets will be cruisers or smaller. Overhead cost on large vs medium ammo will cut into profits as well. A ship using medium weapons is going to work better. An artycane would be cheaper and complete L3s just as fast, if not faster than a mach. Maybe a bit slower than a loki, a lot cheaper isk and sp wise, though. If you want to crush L3s as far as you can for standings gain, isk and sp is no problem an arty sleip will clear grid faster than just about anything else, one-shells rat frigates and destroyers. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/6 "2018-01-01T03:26:29Z")
pretty sure you got a very fast look and don’t know about topic much. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/7 "2018-01-01T03:29:20Z")
o/ thanks for linking that old one source i’m fully aware of that discussion but as you should be aware since 2015 some changes happened with t3c’s. And since both Stoic and Ion not appeared on forums on the same topic i’m looking for new alternative which is Loki. here is the stoic version [https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/topic/345580/](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/topic/345580/) and the format i’ve linked is the standard way of fit linking for myself not sure what’s yours. regarding dps, for blitzing is raw dps not such important as damage per volley. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 3:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/8 "2018-01-01T03:31:34Z")
it’s not ridiculous since the person we’ve talked in the corp chat was considering ANY ship to try for that purpose and i didn’t mentioned it’s gonna be “apply to all” as a must. to run lvl 3 and blitz those you should feel the difference aren’t’ you? ---
**Author:** ![Ploing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ploing/32/466885_2.png) [@Ploing](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ploing)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/10 "2018-01-01T10:28:34Z")
of course there are some changes to t3c, but i found it still comparable. searched the stoicthread yesterday but did not found it 😀 maybe made some tests with your mates. the arty has a ridicoulus cycletime compared to railguns as @JC_Mieyli statet. anyway a mach or loki will do both a fast job. as for l3 i would also think about a polarized version. standard format is copy/paste from eft/pyfa/ingame. your format with the numbers behind the gyro and mhvo will not shown correct when imported. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/11 "2018-01-02T06:57:32Z")
Honestly, that is all very wrong. I remember I used to do lvl 3 missions in T1 Algos and Catalyst with all T1 mods, weapons and tank. There were 1 or 2 I had to avoid cause they took me forever to finish. If your corpmate needs something like a Machariel or a T3C for lvl 3 missions there is something extremely wrong with the player and the corp. Most regular T1 combat cruisers or battlecruisers are plenty for lvl 3 missions (excluding logi, ECM, etc.). Save the BS and T3Cs for level 4s. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/12 "2018-01-02T12:55:57Z")
Blitzing my friend the only thing I could tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/13 "2018-01-02T12:58:13Z")
Hmm, thanks for pointing polarized weapons, completely missed those. I have reworked original fit would link that laters and add one with poly weapons as well. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/14 "2018-01-13T12:04:49Z")
[Loki, lvl3 blitzing] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Gistum B-Type Medium Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner ’Posse’ Adaptive Invulnerability Field 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake M Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array Loki Defensive - Adaptive Defense Node Loki Core - Dissolution Sequencer Warrior II x5 Eifyr and Co. ‘Rogue’ Warp Drive Speed WS-610 Eifyr and Co. ‘Gunslinger’ Motion Prediction MR-704 Eifyr and Co. ‘Gunslinger’ Medium Projectile Turret MP-804 Inherent Implants ‘Lancer’ Gunnery RF-904 end up with final fit, looks great in terms of budget and efficiency. ---
**Author:** ![Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chainsaw_plankton/32/256180_2.png) [@Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chainsaw_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/15 "2018-01-13T21:40:39Z")
The interdiction sub gets the warp speed up, but has a big agility tradeoff. I’d assume a warp speed proteus would out do it as it can get the warp speed from a different sub and doesn’t also lose a slot, plus 250mm rails are good. I haven’t used one since before the t3c rebalance but it was really good before that and didn’t lose too much. Might want to shift the meta level around on a few mods, fits a bit expensive but seems almost no one is ganking mission runners anymore, especially in out of the way systems, and if you are blitzing lv3s I’m guessing you are probably in an out of the way system. [Proteus, Warp speed blitz] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Shadow Serpentis Medium Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane 50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Auto Targeting System I Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Proteus Core - Augmented Fusion Reactor Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Encoding Platform Proteus Propulsion - Hyperspatial Optimization > [@Nikea\_Tiber](#): > > Mach is overkill for blitzing L3s; large guns means your dps projection and application are worse than you think. At the very least, you will be downshipping 1 size (BS shooting a BC), though most of your targets will be cruisers or smaller. Overhead cost on large vs medium ammo will cut into profits as well. > > A ship using medium weapons is going to work better. An artycane would be cheaper and complete L3s just as fast, if not faster than a mach. Maybe a bit slower than a loki, a lot cheaper isk and sp wise, though. > > If you want to crush L3s as far as you can for standings gain, isk and sp is no problem an arty sleip will clear grid faster than just about anything else, one-shells rat frigates and destroyers. and supers are overkill for anoms might as well just use a VNI. Sure an arty cane is way cheaper than a Mach, but no way does it do lv3s faster. Sleipnir might be some better competition, but again I really doubt it. And sure for a newb I’d suggest going for that arty cane as it is far easier to get into and will do the missions at an acceptable rate, but for top tier blitzing, no way, that’s a completely different game. ---
**Author:** ![Atomeon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/atomeon/32/13098_2.png) [@Atomeon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Atomeon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/16 "2018-01-14T16:34:39Z")
How about the same fit on a Brutix Navy Issue? [Brutix Navy Issue, Warp speed blitz] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Shadow Serpentis Medium Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II 50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M Auto Targeting System II Medium Ancillary Current Router II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Infiltrator II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 It has a bit less PG so it needs a rig for it, Also has a bit more optimal and better drones. Edit: oh sorry it has the same dps, i forgot that 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chainsaw_plankton/32/256180_2.png) [@Chainsaw\_Plankton](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chainsaw_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/17 "2018-01-14T21:47:55Z")
Looks like it should do a good job, the extra optimal is always nice. I would just expect it to be a bit slower overall due to the warp speed difference. The high dps ships pretty much blow things up as fast as they can lock, combat time is often the shortest part of a lv3 mission. warp speed becomes the biggest bottleneck. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/18 "2018-01-15T01:57:03Z")
Thx CSP i’d check your fit and compare with railgu, the warp speed in blitzing is a major issue since you do only worry about to finish the mission trigger and not wasting time on bounty cause LP is your main target. Unfortunately any BC (until we see one from Angel Cartel 😉 ) would come close to T3 or Macha. I’d say Macha is a working horse and you just love it for the overall performance but T3C is kind of walking on hte edge since more skill intensive and require pro piloting. ---
**Author:** ![Zhilia\_Mann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhilia_mann/32/214674_2.png) [@Zhilia\_Mann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhilia_Mann)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/19 "2018-01-15T06:38:24Z")
> [@Atomeon](#): > > better drones I think the topic is overall covered here: warp speed good, DPS on target, Machariel owns, etc. I just want to add that the one thing you definitely don’t care about while blitzing is drone damage. Nothing will slow you down as much as waiting for those damn things to do their ■■■■■■■ jobs. Missiles are slightly better, but drones for blitzing are just the worst. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/20 "2018-02-05T02:16:08Z")
I challenge you to use smart bombs . ---
**Author:** ![Piugattuk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/piugattuk/32/292316_2.png) [@Piugattuk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Piugattuk)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2018, 2:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424/21 "2018-02-05T02:28:23Z")
I’d just go with a hurricane or cyclone, cheap and effective. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/macha-vs-loki-for-lvl3-blitz/48424.md?page=2)