# Magic 14 Nonsense **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 15, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158 "2022-06-15T22:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/162 "2022-06-24T13:33:13Z")
Can you explain something I continually don’t understand. The kill record shows me taking 34K of damage. Yet my Gnosis had 93K of EHP…spread fairly evenly among the different damage types. So is that 93K the _collective_ resistance across all 4 types of damage…in which case it’s a bit meaningless as nobody’s going to actually attack all 4 types. This is the sort of thing noobs should be learning rather than concrete ‘skill plans’. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/163 "2022-06-24T13:35:09Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > it’s a bit meaningless Yup… ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/164 "2022-06-24T13:38:42Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Can you explain something I continually don’t understand. The kill record shows me taking 34K of damage. Yet my Gnosis had 93K of EHP…spread fairly evenly among the different damage types. So is that 93K the _collective_ resistance across all 4 types of damage…in which case it’s a bit meaningless as nobody’s going to actually attack all 4 types. > > This is the sort of thing noobs should be learning rather than concrete ‘skill plans’. your number in your EHP is in reality based on your LOWEST resistance so lets say its 50% EM and the number is 10k so if a guy have a 1000 EM alpha you will receive 500 damage , 50%/half that also mean usually your HP will be MORE than 10k if not pure EM damage Zkill only show REAL DAMAGE … the number of your armor + your shield + your hull kinda ignoring resists , but that is just for killboard purposes and don’t affect you in the game ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/165 "2022-06-24T13:42:02Z")
Well…let me put it another way. If I have 90K EHP, does that mean I will last 90 seconds against 1000 DPS ( which is pretty much what happened ) ? ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/166 "2022-06-24T13:42:34Z")
yes…you will last 90 seconds agains 1000 dps in your worst resist , or a bit more in your best resist and them you must think , how much more HP / TIME my repair buy me VS simply having a BIG EHP usually PVP tank cant last receiving PVP dps , its a question of who die first , who last one more minute , or one more second, usually the smaller the ship faster the combat but all are kinda fast in frigate combat i killed 3 guys in the same minute in several occasions for example ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 5:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/167 "2022-06-28T05:32:42Z")
Ironic, talking BS about somebody when they’re not here to defend themselves… Course that’s to be expected… Anyway, most new players have major problems with fitting up ships due to lack of Powergrid and CPU, also depending on the type of ship fit they’re trying to achieve, lack of Capacitor will basically leave them defenseless. So yeah, I still stand by my statement about training up the Magic 14 skills, without them trained up, you won’t get a competent fit to do what you actually want to do… ---
**Author:** ![Minnaken\_Rotsuda](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minnaken_rotsuda/32/325860_2.png) [@Minnaken\_Rotsuda](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Minnaken_Rotsuda)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 6:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/168 "2022-06-28T06:40:42Z")
This coming from a ganker and pirate who has never given back to the new player community?! The arrogance… ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 6:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/169 "2022-06-28T06:55:04Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > most new players have major problems with fitting up ships due to lack of Powergrid and CPU, also depending on the type of ship fit they’re trying to achieve No they don’t, only if they’re given bad fits by others and don’t ask for help. ---
**Author:** ![Katya\_Itzimaru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katya_itzimaru/32/512123_2.png) [@Katya\_Itzimaru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katya_Itzimaru)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/170 "2022-06-28T06:56:37Z")
What Gerard said is still correct though - only 2 of the Magic 14 are fitting skills and there’s other important fitting skills not included with it. I literally listed the Magic 14 in my proposal above about them for this very reason that people don’t actually know which ones they are. Also exploration, mining, hauling, etc. are careers that don’t need perfect fitting skills to do effectively. A newbro miner gets a lot more value out of unlocking barges than getting a few percent more fitting. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 7:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/171 "2022-06-28T07:28:47Z")
LOL. I love how I don’t pay rent 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mohammad_mediouni_sh_rifi/32/301858_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mohammad_Mediouni_Sh_rifi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/172 "2022-06-28T09:19:58Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > LOL. I love how I don’t pay rent. So you squat? Bum… 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/173 "2022-06-28T09:32:46Z")
You get ALL m14 skills on a main character. You just don’t prioritize them. The first couple levels for all basic skills hardly take any time, so no reason not to take them relatively early on really. It’s just lvls 4 or 5 may be postponed almost indefinitely for some of them, because other skills will give better bonuses for specific role. In the long run, if a skill can be used on an alpha character and it’s not mining or industry and ■■■■ like that, you eventually take it. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/174 "2022-06-28T10:12:55Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > most new players have major problems with fitting up ships due to lack of Powergrid and CPU In my experience fighting newbies in Novice Plexes, the first problem is having enough DPS. Gun or missile skills and racial frigate skills being the top priority. And since new players typically enjoy flying different ships and trying new things, there’s ample skill time needed for the different weapon systems and frigate skills. ---
**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mohammad_mediouni_sh_rifi/32/301858_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mohammad_Mediouni_Sh_rifi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/175 "2022-06-28T10:49:20Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > In my experience fighting newbies in Novice Plexes, the first problem is having enough DPS. Gun or missile skills and racial frigate skills being the top priority No, he’s totally right, 100% > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > most new players have major problems with fitting up ships due to lack of Powergrid and CPU That’s exactly what new players struggle with until those skills get done training. ---
**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mohammad_mediouni_sh_rifi/32/301858_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mohammad_Mediouni_Sh_rifi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/176 "2022-06-28T10:50:35Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Anyway, most new players have major problems with fitting up ships due to lack of Powergrid and CPU, also depending on the type of ship fit they’re trying to achieve, lack of Capacitor will basically leave them defenseless 💯 % correct. You hit the nail on the head, sir. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/177 "2022-06-28T10:52:14Z")
> [@Minnaken\_Rotsuda](#): > > This coming from a ganker and pirate who has never given back to the new player community?! > > The arrogance… O\_o you do realize he wrote a ton of the pve guides in the game right. And eve uni is literally dedicated to new players. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/178 "2022-06-28T10:57:04Z")
> [@Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](#): > > That’s exactly what new players struggle with until those skills get done training Not true at all, you can fit ships just fine. Not maxed of course but they gain more from training ship/weapon skills than they do from training fitting skills. This is what you’re telling a newbie to do: spend 14/28 days training fitting skills, instead of training a myriad of combat/play style related skills. ![Fittingskills](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/1/d/d1deb9dcbf284bb21ce5e788dd556b4bc97a4dfb.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mohammad_mediouni_sh_rifi/32/301858_2.png) [@Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mohammad_Mediouni_Sh_rifi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/179 "2022-06-28T11:30:10Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Not true at all, you can fit ships just fine No. New players _cannot_ “fit ships just fine”, not at _all_, not in a million years… well, at least unit all those skills are done training to at least lvl 3 or even 4 and even then they have to get T2 modules to keep ships energy consumption down. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/180 "2022-06-28T11:41:31Z")
> [@Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](#): > > New players _cannot_ “fit ships just fine”, not at _all_, not in a million years… This is the kind of language I hope is never thrown at new players. The point of fitting constraints is to always make tradeoffs with the reality of skills and modules available. Even with perfect skills and infinite money, one can’t make every possible fit work: still not enough PG to put a rack of large artillery on a destroyer, or double-oversized Battleship MWDs on a frigate. The point for new players is to learn to operate within those constraints and figure out when to train a fitting skill “just enough” to make their _next_ iteration of fit work. Granted pyfa does this better than the in-game tool. Telling new players their fits are 💩 because they can’t make “end-game meta” fits are the exact kind of discouraging statements and mentalities that need to be killed off. Eve is always about succeeding in the face of a bigger fish who has better skills, more ISK, blingier fits, and more friends than you. > [@Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](#): > > even then they have to get T2 modules to keep ships energy consumption down. It depends on the activity they do and the fits they fly. In the novice plexes combat rarely lasts longer than 60 seconds so cap stability is less important – and new players also need to build the skill of making fit tradeoffs like this for the activity they are doing. It’s part of learning how to be critically thinking about how to put a plan in motion and exert their will in confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158/181 "2022-06-28T11:42:48Z")
> [@Mohammad\_Mediouni\_Sh\_rifi](#): > > New players _cannot_ “fit ships just fine”, not at _all_, not in a million years… well, at least unit all those skills are done training to at least lvl 3 or even 4 and even then they have to get T2 modules to keep ships energy consumption down. You really really REALLY have no idea, do you. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/magic-14-nonsense/367158.md?page=10)