# Main AFK cloaky thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731 "2017-06-21T03:19:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 250
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5120 "2019-05-20T19:32:16Z")
> [@Jake\_Javelin](#): > > Its about who has how much risk. Cloaky’s have far less. They get a huge reward for almost no risk. That’s bull! Then impose risk instead of whining about it. It’s up to you to form a defense fleet and _actually_ actively defend the space you’re using. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5121 "2019-05-20T19:33:12Z")
I love the ‘Realtime passive intel’ being gathered by somebody _ATK_ This is of course as opposed to the actual perfect passive intel that is local, as used by all bots. Once again I’ll point out that when local screwed up, AFK cloaking stopped. Cloaks are not the problem. I keep repeating it because we have actual definitive evidence that this is the case. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5122 "2019-05-20T19:33:43Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > Then impose risk instead of whining about it. It’s up to you to form a defense fleet and _actually_ actively defend the space you’re using. Have you tried forming a defense fleet to bait an AFK cloaky? It’s pretty pointless because he’s probably afk and wasting your time for the next 10 hours… ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Javelin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jake_javelin/32/173224_2.png) [@Jake\_Javelin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jake_Javelin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5123 "2019-05-20T19:34:08Z")
Why should anyone have to work 3-5 times harder to defend space than those who invade or raid it? ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5124 "2019-05-20T19:34:49Z")
Maybe you could use that fleet to blitz those sites whilst loitering and inviting trouble. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5125 "2019-05-20T19:38:12Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Have you tried forming a defense fleet to bait an AFK cloaky? It’s pretty pointless because he’s probably afk and wasting your time for the next 10 hours… Doing your due diligence will most likely tell you when he’s likely to be active. You could also just go to a different system, or, you know, be actually prepared like you’re supposed to be instead of relying on zero effort local intel to run away. > [@Jake\_Javelin](#): > > Why should anyone have to work 3-5 times harder to defend space than those who invade or raid it? Because you want to use the space? Nullsec is **null security** space. **High risk** for high reward. That’s why. You don’t have to do it alone either. 1-man corps aren’t supposed to hold sovereignty. It’s for well-established alliances _with the means to actually defend their space_. You don’t see those alliances whining here. It’s the botters and renter trash that are here whining about cloakers. The people that have no business being in nullsec in the first place. The problem aren’t the game mechanics. The problem is entitlement mindset and wrong expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Javelin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jake_javelin/32/173224_2.png) [@Jake\_Javelin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jake_Javelin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5126 "2019-05-20T19:39:22Z")
We don’t dock up when camped. We mine and bait. Simple mind people who love to generalize and marginalize assuming we run and cry about cloaky campers. This thread really shows that I have and do fight. I stand my ground. I take more losses than I inflict. I am still pretty proud to kill a T3 or 2 along with several bombers. We grind out more ships and replace our T1s while attackers go buy more T2 and T3 ships. I just think its bull that I have far more risk for far less reward than cloaked campers ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5127 "2019-05-20T19:43:35Z")
> [@Jake\_Javelin](#): > > I just think its bull that I have far more risk for far less reward than cloaked campers The cloaked camper gets no reward unless: a) They are ATK, in which case this thread doesn’t apply b) A null alliance member refuses to undock with a name in local, in which case they should reconsider their game choices ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Javelin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jake_javelin/32/173224_2.png) [@Jake\_Javelin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jake_Javelin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5128 "2019-05-20T19:47:42Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > The cloaked camper gets no reward unless: > > a) They are ATK, in which case this thread doesn’t apply > > b) A null alliance member refuses to undock with a name in local, in which case they should reconsider their game choices Oh I disagree completely. They get something worth far more than isk or even actual kills. 1. They get passive real time intel worth far more than its weight in gold 2. They are engaging in psyops as a meta game 3. They operate nearly risk free once in system With only 1 or 2 dozen of these accounts you have live passive intel covering an entire region Can you still honestly tell me they get nothing? By the way as another meta game, they can make a ton of isk selling the intel or simply being the hot drop cyno. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5129 "2019-05-20T19:58:23Z")
All of these are predicated on ‘passive intel’, but the only way a cloaky ship gives this if the pilot is at the keyboard. Watching those monitors. Actually supplying that intel to someone. In short, they are not AFK. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5130 "2019-05-20T20:33:09Z")
> [@Jake\_Javelin](#): > > 1. They get passive real time intel worth far more than its weight in gold > > With only 1 or 2 dozen of these accounts you have live passive intel covering an entire region If you are offering passive intel, you are not AFK. To provide passive intel you have to be at the keyboard, even if you’re not doing anything. (Unless you have some sort of third party app running that watches for changes in your screen and posts that somewhere, but if that’s the case the issue is the third party app, not AFK cloaking.) Also…running two dozen accounts concurrently? That’s also a bit of a stretch unless you have some kind of third party app monitoring your little spy network. > [@Jake\_Javelin](#): > > 1. They are engaging in psyops as a meta game The metagame is real, and this is the true benefit of actual AFK cloaking. But…it’s a _meta_game, not an actual part of game mechanics. It’s not an exploit, it’s not a broken mechanic, you’re not actually doing anything to anyone in-game, it’s a creative use of an otherwise non-broken mechanic to take advantage of how certain players _think_. Human psychology is probably one of the worst reasons ever to patch EvE, and very likely why CCP hasn’t done anything to change AFK cloaking despite this conversation going on, sometimes in heated fashion, for a decade or more. Having said all of that, if CCP do change how cloaking works it should involve removing cloaked players from local. While that would totally kill the metagame aspect of AFK cloaking, it would make the free intel harder to collect and make exploding oblivious targets a ton easier. That’s a trade I’d be willing to make. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5131 "2019-05-20T20:36:48Z")
> [@Jake\_Javelin](#): > > With only 1 or 2 dozen of these accounts you have live passive intel covering an entire region > > Can you still honestly tell me they get nothing? So now it’s not bad because they are afk, it’s because they aren’t actually afk and they’re gathering intel? ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Javelin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jake_javelin/32/173224_2.png) [@Jake\_Javelin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jake_Javelin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5132 "2019-05-20T20:38:02Z")
This is where we bump into the multitude of AFK definitions. For me AFK simply means hands off keyboard and mouse. Maybe for you it means out of the room, asleep, at work. Sure, it can mean that too. If it were me I would setup my windows, make everyone flashy red in every system, pop open Netflix Binge watch whatever and just wait for the blairing window with a bunch of flashy red in it. Pause my show and go hunt now that I know exactly where to look. Get a juicy target and we are off to the races. I am seriously going to look into this. I have been going about this all wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Javelin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jake_javelin/32/173224_2.png) [@Jake\_Javelin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jake_Javelin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5133 "2019-05-20T20:48:14Z")
I cannot really know what each one is doing. I can deduce what can be gained. I don’t buy that AFK Cloakys are actually AFK all the time. Way too many Juicy kill coincidences for that. Passive intel starts to emerge. I have in fact operated in full view of a known active cloaky and found they cannot always act. It took nearly an hour in one case for a drop to form. When they did they poured in at over 4 to one against us. We still managed some kills but totally lost the isk war. So the cloaky is NOT totally risk free and not totally AFK as some may define. However, they are at far lower risk and gain far higher reward systematically. There is very little left to chance. After they drop, kill and move off, they reset to passive and wait for another opportunity in the region. I am envious of the efficiency. ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5134 "2019-05-20T20:55:47Z")
> [@Jake\_Javelin](#): > > For me AFK simply means hands off keyboard and mouse. So when you’re online you are _ALWAYS_ actively touching either keyboard or mouse ? Stopping to drink your tea or scratch your arse without the other hand actively gaming is your definition of AFK ? I doubt there are many who would agree with you on that… To me AFK means something involving neither keyboard or mouse, put simply you are AFK when you’re not watching the screen. It’s not the definition that’s wrong, it’s the TLA. ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Javelin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jake_javelin/32/173224_2.png) [@Jake\_Javelin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jake_Javelin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5135 "2019-05-20T20:59:45Z")
Aw come on! Best you got is scratchin yer ass as comeback to my AFK definition? EvE open and running while watching a movie or even better, paying your bills online [as in hands actually ON keyboard]. Dude, you are AFK from EvE even if your hands or on the darned keyboard if your not doing EvE activity. Gimme some credit here. Anticipating snappy comeback. You can do other things in window, effectively AFK from EvE and still get passive intel. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5136 "2019-05-20T21:07:06Z")
> [@Jake\_Javelin](#): > > You can do other things in window, effectively AFK from EvE and still get passive intel And how does the cloak provide this intel? It certainly isn’t in the module description. You are arguing that cloaks are bad because local gives perfect intel. Guess what you change to fix that? ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Javelin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jake_javelin/32/173224_2.png) [@Jake\_Javelin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jake_Javelin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5137 "2019-05-20T21:11:35Z")
I only argue risk vs reward not the good or bad in anything or anyone. Once established, AFK Camping is high reward at very low risk. Now I know its lucrative. Heck there is even someone willing to show you how to do it for profit. I am not making this up, its real. [Cloaky Camping 101](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/8dx74j/a_story_from_a_cloaky_camper_and_an_attempt_to/) To your point, remove local? Yes! Definitely! ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5138 "2019-05-20T21:16:20Z")
All of that comes from local being perfect intel. The ability to lurk visibly, the ability to see when others are in system, everything comes back to local. None of it works without local. ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Javelin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jake_javelin/32/173224_2.png) [@Jake\_Javelin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jake_Javelin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5139 "2019-05-20T21:17:39Z")
Again, yes, definitely! Lets lose it for Null. That would be almost as good as getting sig belts back. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731.md?page=249) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731.md?page=251)