# Main AFK cloaky thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731 "2017-06-21T03:19:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 252
**Author:** ![Hillbert\_Alexis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hillbert_alexis/32/263334_2.png) [@Hillbert\_Alexis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hillbert_Alexis)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5160 "2019-05-24T00:52:45Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > when your starting position is “buff RMT botting” As much as I try to explain otherwise, if you wish to sustain this counter argument, it helps to be accurate. Since you’re way off the mark I’ll leave you be, since your only argument against any cloaking adjustment is “But RMT” > [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > I’m not going to respond to you again. You won’t because you’ve already lost the argument, while pointing to frivolous ideas and wild accusations. But if you don’t reply, how will you guys silence anyone trying to discuss anything involving cloaking if you don’t rush in to throw some trash at them? > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > how do you suggest It would be slow heat. as in maybe 30 minutes to an hour of being cloaked before enough heat is accumulated to start doing modual damage. T3 cruisers would be ideal for this purpose. If you need to follow someone for more than 30 minutes to an hour, I’m not sure it needs to be done alone. > [@Robert\_Caldera](#): > > still a thing I don’t recall players having dozens of alts that they used to cloaky camp systems for isk 16 years ago, or the many other changes to the game and what players are doing. Unchecked player behavior and activity that ends up causing issues is normally worth taking a closer look at before it drives player count down. It is time to suck it up, you babies are too safe being perfectly safe out in space while cloaked. I’m glad you agree. > [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > Surprisingly little has changed You can just look at the regular posters in this thread and their word-for-word responses, arguments, attacks and reasoning that they repeat like broken records. It’s hard to take them seriously, after all they couldn’t be that dense, could they? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5161 "2019-05-24T03:15:30Z")
> [@Hillbert\_Alexis](#): > > As much as I try to explain otherwise, if you wish to sustain this counter argument, it helps to be accurate. It’s entirely accurate. Your words say “more PvP”, but the obvious consequences of all of your proposals involve no increase in PvP and massive increases to the effectiveness of RMT botting. Since this fact has been explained to you over and over again you can no longer plead ignorance, and the only explanation for your behavior is that your goal is a buff to RMT botting and your discussion of PvP is just an attempt to bait people into agreeing with your suggestions. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5162 "2019-05-24T03:16:29Z")
> [@Hillbert\_Alexis](#): > > And you’re afraid of change. The global counter whenever a bad idea is criticized. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 8:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5163 "2019-05-24T08:34:31Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It’s entirely accurate. Your words say “more PvP”, but the obvious consequences of all of your proposals involve no increase in PvP and massive increases to the effectiveness of RMT botting. I’m on your side that I too think that CCP shouldn’t nerf cloaks while keeping local, as it would likely lead to safer space with less PvP as a consequence. However, I honestly think bringing _RMT_ and _botting_ into this is a terrible argument. And somehow I see this deflection of ‘but RMT botting!’ used a lot of times in this thread. I enjoy seeing the good arguments for and against AFK cloaking, but these specific arguments appear to be just an attempt at derailing the thread. Yes, RMT is bad. Yes, botting is bad. And CCP should do something about it. But we’re discussing something completely different here, namely AFK cloaking. Sure, AFK cloaking may have effect on those other two issues, but _everything_ in EVE has an effect on other things in EVE to a certain degree since it’s all one big server. So please, stop bringing RMT and botting into this discussion. Create or find a new thread if you’d like to address those issues. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5164 "2019-05-24T12:13:21Z")
> [@Hillbert\_Alexis](#): > > You can just look at the regular posters in this thread and their word-for-word responses, arguments, attacks and reasoning that they repeat like broken records. It’s hard to take them seriously, after all they couldn’t be that dense, could they? That might be because folks summed up the entire issue years ago and just refuse to budge. Carrying on the tradition of @Ralph_King-Griffin from time immemorial, I present you the entire AFK cloaking discussion in a nutshell: > [@Paikis](#): > > This thread comes up on almost a weekly basis. In fact, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t a nerf cloaking thread in the first 2 pages on this forum section. Almost every single one of them goes like this: > > 1. OP posts a post with a new (lol) idea that always boils down to some variation of the following: > “There’s a big meanie who is sitting in my system and not doing anything, but I don’t know where he is and I can’t ever just go next door. I can’t find said meanie and even though I know that he’s probably at work and poses no threat at all, I wont do anything in my system that I absolutely can’t leave ever because he might not be at work and I might lose a ship. CCP please stop the meanie from being able to do nothing to me because he’s probably at work” > > 2. Thread gets trolled because its been done literally to death. This horse has been beaten so hard and so often that it’s little more than a memory of a memory of a red smear on the grass, and yet it STILL WONT DIE! In fact it’s been done so many times that this particular horse is now undead; even if it does die, it will still be remembered and parodied. > > 3. Someone comes along and suggests that AFK cloakers can’t hurt you, because they are, by their very definition, AFK. No one ever lost a ship to someone who ISN’T PLAYING THE GAME. > > 4. Someone else comes along and points out that while the cloaker might be AFK, he might not be, and so we have Schrodinger’s Hot Dropper. The cyno pilot who might be AFK… but he might not be as well, and you will only know for sure when he decloaks, points and lights his candle. (Yes, I know this isn’t how the cat works) > > 5. Someone else comes along and suggests that you use bait and setup a TARP. Or have a defence fleet on standby. Heaven forbid you have to actually fight to defend your space. > > 6. A further person comes along and suggests that the problem isn’t cloaking AFK in your system that you can’t possibly leave ever, but that you KNOW that the person is AFK in your system… and perhaps local should be removed because free 100% accurate intel is probably not the best thing in the game and if you didn’t know that the big meanie was in your system, you wouldn’t be worried about leaving the undock/POS. > > 7. Then another person pokes their head in and complains that local is 100% NEEDED because D-Scan and probing are such bad mechanics, and IF YOU TAKE MY LOCAL AWAY IM QUITTING FOREVER AND NO YOU CAN’T HAVE MY STUFF! > > 8. Someone asks if they can have 7’s stuff. > > We end up with another thread which goes on for pages and pages between complains about local, defence fleets, inability to just go next door, people who aren’t playing the game but are playing the meta, lots of bickering and in the end nothing gets solved. CCP wont remove cloaking because it would mess with waaay too many things and it creates content (which is a good thing) by removing content (which is a bad thing) but they can’t really think of any way to do it without a complete overhaul of the local and scanning systems. > > Now that I’ve had this entire thread’s conversation, can we just let it die? Please? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5165 "2019-05-24T12:41:05Z")
> [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > That might be because folks summed up the entire issue years ago and just refuse to budge. > > Carrying on the tradition of @Ralph_King-Griffin from time immemorial, I present you the entire AFK cloaking discussion in a nutshell: Yep, that pretty much sums up most of the thread. It does however not address my issue with AFK cloaking, which is that I believe that players should not have an effect on the game while AFK without extra risks for being AFK. I’d like to see more interaction, more risks. Make it worthwile to pay attention to the screen. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5166 "2019-05-24T13:19:03Z")
That’s covered by points 4 and 3 I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5167 "2019-05-24T13:24:19Z")
You may be right. People have tried before to claim that AFK cloakers do not have an effect on the game as response to my point. I guess this post does indeed cover all of this thread then. I still believe AFK cloaking needs to be addressed though. ---
**Author:** ![Bronson\_Hughes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bronson_hughes/32/189075_2.png) [@Bronson\_Hughes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bronson_Hughes)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5168 "2019-05-24T13:55:46Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > It does however not address my issue with AFK cloaking, which is that I believe that players should not have an effect on the game while AFK without extra risks for being AFK. I’d like to see more interaction, more risks. Make it worthwile to pay attention to the screen. You’re not much into metagaming are you? There is far more to EvE than what happens while you are actively engaged with the client. I have started wars, gotten nullsec ratters with loose lips blapped, caused a few (minor) market bubbles, and tricked haulers into flying into traps, simply by creatively posting on the forums. When a player can produce real, tangible, in-game events using forum-fu, _without even being logged into the client at all_, your concern about logged in players having tangible, in-game impacts with little risk seems rather trivial… _EDIT: And yes, I realize that all of the examples I listed above invovled **someone** being logged into the client doing something. My point is that metagaming is real, and being at the keyboard in your pod isn’t required to influence the New Eden._ ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5169 "2019-05-24T14:01:43Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I still believe AFK cloaking needs to be addressed though. And the point I come back to is: We have actual evidence that a change in local curtails or eliminates AFK cloaking. The module does not need changes. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5170 "2019-05-24T14:04:03Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > And the point I come back to is: We have actual evidence that a change in local curtails or eliminates AFK cloaking. The module does not need changes. And I agree. I don’t necessily think that the cloaking module needs a change to address AFK cloaking, changing the local chat mechanics is a valid option as well. Without local chat there would be no use for AFK cloaking at all. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5171 "2019-05-25T01:22:06Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > But we’re discussing something completely different here, namely AFK cloaking. We aren’t discussing something completely different, because the motivation of certain people on the anti-cloaking side is blatantly to buff their RMT farms. We can not have an honest discussion of the subject while pretending that a desire for better RMT botting is not a factor. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5172 "2019-05-25T11:39:05Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > We aren’t discussing something completely different, because the motivation of certain people on the anti-cloaking side is blatantly to buff their RMT farms. We can not have an honest discussion of the subject while pretending that a desire for better RMT botting is not a factor. Different desires surely are a factor for this discussion, but let’s focus on the arguments of these so called ‘RMT botters’ and attack the arguments instead of the person who says it? ---
**Author:** ![Hillbert\_Alexis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hillbert_alexis/32/263334_2.png) [@Hillbert\_Alexis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hillbert_Alexis)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5173 "2019-05-25T23:40:25Z")
Hadn’t seen that before. Anyway, **Extended cloaking should generate minor amounts of heat, which will end up causing heat damage to mods for those that choose to cloak for extended amounts of times when they could simply log off safely. This will promote active cloaking activities while making it harder to passively afk and gain a benefit, as you risk your ship.** **A cloak shouldn’t be able to be activated if it has any damage, requiring the use of nanite paste. This limits how long someone can achieve invulnerability in space.** > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > RMT botting If CCP wanted to stop that, they would. They have the information, the tools, and the resources to make botting impossible. Someone made a reddit post about how you could pull ESI data and find botters. CCP can do that to. I just want a little danger added to the cloak. The cloaky doesn’t stop botters at all, and it’s not the players job to police the game. Let me have a higher chance to find and shoot a cloaked ship. Let the risk be added. If you really give a ■■■■ about botting and RMT, you’d be pressing CCP about it. Instead, you’re here, trolling the afk cloaky thread. You can’t fool me. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5174 "2019-05-26T03:29:15Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Different desires surely are a factor for this discussion, but let’s focus on the arguments of these so called ‘RMT botters’ and attack the arguments instead of the person who says it? I am attacking the argument. The argument is “buff RMT botters”, and I am attacking its obvious flaws. > [@Hillbert\_Alexis](#): > > for those that choose to cloak for extended amounts of times when they could simply log off safely Well, at least now you finally admit that your goal is to get people to log off instead of staying logged in and cloaked, not to create additional PvP. > Let me have a higher chance to find and shoot a cloaked ship. If this is genuinely your goal then why do you keep proposing ideas that will not allow you to find or shoot a cloaked ship, and will do little more than make local a more effective tool for avoiding PvP? ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 7:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5175 "2019-05-26T07:33:36Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > If your AFK cloaker can catch people more easily because they assume you’re AFK, that is an effect. If they’re catching people, they’re not AFK are they? > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > If your AFK cloaker can relay intel about a system Again, if they’re relaying intel, not AFK. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Without local chat there would be no use for AFK cloaking at all. Yeah there would be… spent any time in wormholes? You should try it, you might like it. Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5176 "2019-05-26T08:00:29Z")
> [@Hillbert\_Alexis](#): > > Someone made a reddit post Wow ! Some unnamed individual on an unofficial forum said it, so it MUST be true ! ---
**Author:** ![Jint\_Hikaru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jint_hikaru/32/387656_2.png) [@Jint\_Hikaru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jint_Hikaru)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5177 "2019-05-26T14:35:18Z")
> [@Hillbert\_Alexis](#): > > Anyway, > **Extended cloaking should generate minor amounts of heat, which will end up causing heat damage to mods for those that choose to cloak for extended amounts of times when they could simply log off safely. This will promote active cloaking activities while making it harder to passively afk and gain a benefit, as you risk your ship.** > **A cloak shouldn’t be able to be activated if it has any damage, requiring the use of nanite paste. This limits how long someone can achieve invulnerability in space.** What amount of time are you suggesting with this idea? Because there are active cloakers who can spend hours stalking their prey, and if this heat buildup is less than that, then you have just ruined that playstyle. Also active cloakerw who want to sneak deep into enemy territory or WK space for extended periods would be hella-nerfed by this suggestion. Again we see, it always seems to be ideas that nerf cloaking as a whole, while claiming its because ‘AFK Cloaking is Bad’. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5178 "2019-05-26T17:17:14Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > I am attacking the argument. The argument is “buff RMT botters”, and I am attacking its obvious flaws. I haven’t seen anyone say ‘buff RMT botters’ but you in this thread. Sure, it’s 4839 posts long by now and I may have missed it… but please don’t start creating and using the [straw man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) fallacy. > [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](#): > > If they’re catching people, they’re not AFK are they? > > … > > Again, if they’re relaying intel, not AFK. > > … If your cloaker, once back at the keyboard, can catch someone just because you’ve been in system AFK for the previous 10 hours, that catch is a result of AFK cloaking. If you wouldn’t get the kill if you had not logged in 10 hours before to make people stop attention to your face in local, AFK cloaking gave you that benefit. Same for intel. > [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](#): > > Yeah there would be… spent any time in wormholes? You should try it, you might like it. Good idea, it’s something I do intend to do once I can fly a few more types of ships effectively on this character and have more time available. For now I’m happy to experience some more big battles in null. ---
**Author:** ![Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ralph_king-griffin/32/252855_2.png) [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ralph_King-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/5179 "2019-05-26T18:09:51Z")
> [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > Carrying on the tradition of @Ralph_King-Griffin from time immemorial, > **[Cloaks - Player Features and Ideas Discussion - EVE Online Forums](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/4374522/#post4374522)** > > EVE allows you to discover, explore and dominate an amazing science fiction universe while you fight, trade, form corporations and alliances with other players. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/b/bb5c54b908060a4d87beae8ed5390e8c02f792e1.jpeg) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731.md?page=251) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731.md?page=253)