# Main AFK cloaky thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731 "2017-06-21T03:19:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/545 "2017-10-17T15:35:43Z")
I repeat: > [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > Each and every afk cloaker is only an unconfirmed threat, until he becomes a confirmed threat. to confirm the threat, you have to get him to do something. being scared about an unconfirmed threat means being scared of an illusion. refusing to attempt to confirm that he is an actual threat is a problem of the player, not the game. As long as you refuse to confirm that the illusion of a threat is an actual threat, you can keep sitting in the station like the cowards you are. You can find out by undocking. Refusing to undock is your problem and not the game’s. That’s all there is to it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/546 "2017-10-17T16:09:29Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > We once talked about things in game, remember? This stuff gets you warnings and bans. Let them. They’d do me a favor. I’d finally win EVE. > [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > I am beginning to believe that the biggest mistake i and many others make, is that we go down to their level, instead of forcing them to ours. How do you want to force them to make use of intelligence they don’t have? That’s like asking a blind man to use his eyes to see. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/547 "2017-10-17T16:12:04Z")
By socially shunning them. It hurts them. Refusal to drop to their level equals ridicouling them when they can’t adapt to ours. Basic social mechanics. Like fat shaming. Actually a social mechanism to keep the community healthy. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/548 "2017-10-17T16:19:02Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > By socially shunning them. It hurts them. Refusal to drop to their level equals ridicouling them when they can’t. Basic social mechanics. > > Like fat shaming. Actually a social mechanism to keep the community healthy. Fat people are aware of being fat. These people aren’t aware of how stupid they are, nor will they ever be. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/549 "2017-10-17T16:19:35Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > I repeat: > > > [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > > > Each and every afk cloaker is only an unconfirmed threat, until he becomes a confirmed threat. to confirm the threat, you have to get him to do something. being scared about an unconfirmed threat means being scared of an illusion. refusing to attempt to confirm that he is an actual threat is a problem of the player, not the game. > > As long as you refuse to confirm that the illusion of a threat is an actual threat, you can keep sitting in the station like the cowards you are. You can find out by undocking. Refusing to undock is your problem and not the game’s. That’s all there is to it. 🙂 See THIS is a strawman. My position was that players who are logged into the game should actually play the game… not be away from their keyboard. You’re talking about “threats”. I don’t care if he’s a threat or not… I just want him PRESENT. He may or may not drop a cyno on me. He may or may not fall for my bait ship. I just want him to be there to interact with… not be afk. Similarly I imagine he’d like to know I’m at my keyboard before trying a logoff trap or if a MTU sitting at a combat site was simply abandoned. The threat is frankly irrelevant. Him being at his keyboard is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/550 "2017-10-17T16:21:13Z")
> [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > See THIS is a strawman. That’s actually just another example of your intellectual limitations. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/551 "2017-10-17T16:24:35Z")
That’s not what fat shaming is about. it’s not about being aware of them being fat. it’s about being aware that it’s bad for the community as a whole. Fat shaming is a proven method. people stopped doing it, because of those who screech when you don’t accept their “individuality”, as if people were fat because of a rational decision. Victims. And as the media loves supporting self declared victims, fat shaming isn’t being done on a big enough scale to help improving the health of the community. inb4 someone nonsensically declaring that i hate fat people. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/552 "2017-10-17T16:27:21Z")
> [@Linus\_Gorp](#): > > > [@Mike\_Voidstar](#): > > > > Oh so many apologies for not playing the sandbox game in the way that YOU dictate. > > Nobody is dictating you any way to play. You can play any way you want and I can play any way I want. If I want to go out and blow up your ship, how is that dictating you how to play? Mike has trouble with the concept of emergence/spontaneous order. Nobody is dictating how one plays the game, but you are not free from others who want to try and interact with you. It is this aspect of the game that makes it interesting and challenging. Playing against a computer is often boring because after a time people figure out how to beat the computer and will do so with mind numbing regularity. What Mike sees as a problem everyone else who does not share his view sees it as a feature. There is a fundamental disagreement here. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/553 "2017-10-17T16:29:35Z")
> [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > My position was that players who are logged into the game should actually play the game… not be away from their keyboard. like afk mining, all afktars and all afk VNIs, too? You’re not even trying, or you’re not equipped for the discussion. the unconfirmed threat is what makes you want to know if he is at the keyboard, so you can get confirmation if he is a threat at the moment. and that you can find out simply by undocking and baiting, no need for game changes at all. this is fundamental. the discussion-ender. boiled down to the foundation. do you comprehend that? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/554 "2017-10-17T16:32:14Z")
> [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > I just want people to be present when they play. I’ve never had a problem with the “cloaky” part. It’s the “AFK” part that bothers me. Why? I can sell stuff and accumulate ISK while being offline. In fact, the other day I accumulated well over 1 billion ISK while literally not logged in. Why are you worried about somebody logged in and not at his keyboard and not injecting resources or ISK into the game? Because he is stopping you due to your inability to deal with that situation? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/555 "2017-10-17T16:36:33Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > like afk mining, all afktars and all afk VNIs, too? Don’t forget station traders. There are many aspects of the game that help the game that are largely done with little or no continuous player input. How do you deal with an AFK cloaker? In the most simple sense by interacting with others in a cooperative manner. Why is that not a good thing? The idea of removing AFK cloaking, at its core, is basically the promotion of people playing the game without cooperative interaction and treating the game almost as a stand alone PC game. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/556 "2017-10-17T16:41:17Z")
> [@Linus\_Gorp](#): > > > [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > > > See THIS is a strawman. > > That’s actually just another example of your intellectual limitations. You consider knowledge of what constitutes a strawman argument a limitation? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/557 "2017-10-17T16:42:38Z")
> [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > Ummm… how can I check to see if someone is present if they’re cloaked? [By seeing if they react](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/488). If they repeatedly do not react chances are they are AFK. > [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > But the problem is I have no way of telling if I’m bating an empty chair or not You can get a pretty good idea if you try. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/558 "2017-10-17T16:46:12Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > > [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > > > My position was that players who are logged into the game should actually play the game… not be away from their keyboard. > > like afk mining, all afktars and all afk VNIs, too? > > You’re not even trying, or you’re not equipped for the discussion. > > the unconfirmed threat is what makes you want to know if he is at the keyboard, so you can get confirmation if he is a threat at the moment. and that you can find out simply by undocking and baiting, no need for game changes at all. > > this is fundamental. the discussion-ender. boiled down to the foundation. do you comprehend that? 🙂 Yes. If you aren’t interacting with your session, that session should be logged out. AFK mining, AFK cloaking, AFK ratting and just sitting in a station AFK. I’m not concerned with “threat”. I just want to play against other players in a multiplayer game… not against an empty chair. I can play single player games if I want that. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/559 "2017-10-17T16:46:15Z")
> [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > You consider knowledge of what constitutes a strawman argument a limitation? Interesting. No, I consider your inability to comprehend @yellow_parasol’s argument a limitation. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/560 "2017-10-17T16:47:55Z")
> [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > Yes. If you aren’t interacting with your session, that session should be logged out. AFK mining, AFK cloaking, AFK ratting and just sitting in a station AFK. Where-oh-where is @Mike_Voidstar to talk about dictating how people play the game? Seriously, I think the game, the forums and even RL would be better if people just stopped worrying about what other people are doing all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/561 "2017-10-17T16:50:08Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > > [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > > > I just want people to be present when they play. I’ve never had a problem with the “cloaky” part. It’s the “AFK” part that bothers me. > > Why? I can sell stuff and accumulate ISK while being offline. In fact, the other day I accumulated well over 1 billion ISK while literally not logged in. Why are you worried about somebody logged in and not at his keyboard and not injecting resources or ISK into the game? Because he is stopping you due to your inability to deal with that situation? When you are offline, I am not attempting to interact with you. You aren’t there. I really don’t care how much isk you make. When you are online, I may attempt to interact with you. I think it’s reasonable to not waste the time of those trying to play a multi-player game with other players by giving them empty chairs posing as real players to fail to interact with 100% of the time. Again… can you see why that situation is problematic in a multi-player game? ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/562 "2017-10-17T16:51:53Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > > [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > > > Yes. If you aren’t interacting with your session, that session should be logged out. AFK mining, AFK cloaking, AFK ratting and just sitting in a station AFK. > > Where-oh-where is @Mike_Voidstar to talk about dictating how people play the game? > > Seriously, I think the game, the forums and even RL would be better if people just stopped worrying about what other people are doing all the time. Teckos, it’s a multi-player game. The POINT is to play against/alongside/in competition with other players. I don’t care how you play… but if you aren’t actually playing and are instead… out for a walk or something… then log the session off and don’t waste everyone’s time thinking you’re there when you’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/563 "2017-10-17T16:55:06Z")
> [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > When you are offline, I am not attempting to interact with you. You aren’t there. I really don’t care how much isk you make. You have already defined my presences in a system several jumps away (possibly ATK, possibly AFK) and its effect on you as interaction. What difference does it make if I am actually in the same system with you? And if I can interact with a character/player who not even logged in…again why to you care if they are ATK? Because you learned the chair is most likely empty…why are you not glad you have gained some information? And if you are still worried and deal with the potential threat via cooperative game play–i.e. interacting with others you know are ATK…again why are you not glad? I really have hard time with the “I want to interact, not just with an empty chair.” You do it all the time every time you buy from the market. In fact, you don’t know if the chair is occupied, empty or even logged in…yet it does not bother you in the slightest…probably because it benefits you. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/564 "2017-10-17T16:56:18Z")
> [@Linus\_Gorp](#): > > > [@Lena\_Crews](#): > > > > You consider knowledge of what constitutes a strawman argument a limitation? Interesting. > > No, I consider your inability to comprehend @yellow_parasol’s argument a limitation. He’s arguing threats, which is a strawman argument. My position has never involved being threatened by AFK players… that’s his misrepresentation of my position. My position has been that if you aren’t playing the game (say you haven’t interacted with any eve client on your computer for the last 20 minutes)… you should be logged off so those of us trying to interact with you get saved from the fruitless task of trying to interact with an empty chair. I don’t care about the threat of the player… I care about the ability to interact with the player. If that’s impossible because he’s asleep… log his account off. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731.md?page=27) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731.md?page=29)