# Main AFK cloaky thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731 "2017-06-21T03:19:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 330
**Author:** ![Succulent\_Succubi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/succulent_succubi/32/242516_2.png) [@Succulent\_Succubi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Succulent_Succubi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6751 "2020-08-22T12:34:19Z")
Yes, its very minimal. You seem to be making some weird assumption that im trying to get rid of cloaking or cloaky camping completely. I have absolutely no problem if i’m actively being hunted in system. I can defend myself just fine. I want to get rid of AFK cloakers. If youre not playing the game, just frikkin’ log off. That slow scanner probe would only affect those and leave normal gameplay pretty much unchanged. (need to be either afk or fallen asleep on your keyboard to get caught by a probe with few minute scan time) ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6752 "2020-08-22T12:37:13Z")
> [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > Yes, its very minimal. Except that it completely breaks WH space. The whole allure of WH space is you can traverse it completely hidden. Where being cloaked actually means true stealth since you don’t show in local. That is far from minimal. ---
**Author:** ![Succulent\_Succubi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/succulent_succubi/32/242516_2.png) [@Succulent\_Succubi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Succulent_Succubi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6753 "2020-08-22T12:39:24Z")
You mentioned this before. I still have no clue how it would actually break WH’s. You can dodge those probes in wormholes too just fine since they would be visible on dscan. (heck, make them even visible on solarsystem map for extra clarity) By launching those slow probes in wormhole space, you only would announce yourself to other occupants (that are not actually afk or asleep) ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6754 "2020-08-22T12:40:30Z")
The simple fact that I can launch a probe that will essentially “shine a light” on the system and let me know who is hiding in there with me breaks the entire concept of WH space. ---
**Author:** ![Succulent\_Succubi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/succulent_succubi/32/242516_2.png) [@Succulent\_Succubi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Succulent_Succubi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6755 "2020-08-22T12:42:13Z")
My suggestion was that you could “shine light” to small part of the system (probe would have limited scan radius). You would have to actively probe the system over several scans to get the whole picture. (making them trivial to dodge by non afk player) ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6756 "2020-08-22T12:45:31Z")
One probe or 5 yields the same result. Now if the AFK issue was big enough to warrant breaking WH gameplay, that could be an argument. But that goes back to my original contention. You need to show it’s a big enough issue to warrant your “fix”, which you haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Succulent\_Succubi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/succulent_succubi/32/242516_2.png) [@Succulent\_Succubi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Succulent_Succubi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6757 "2020-08-22T12:52:21Z")
I dont quite get what you refer with one or 5 probes… Again, I ask you how would it break WH gameplay? If you keep repeating it doesnt make it actually true. And i don’t have to show you anything. If I feel its an issue, i can make my argument for it. Devs can decide if it warrant changes that was suggested. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6758 "2020-08-22T12:56:37Z")
So one time I got an orca stuck on the wrong side of a WH. Stuck in a C4. It ultimately took me scanning through 4 WH’s to get back to k-space (which was LS). On two occasions I had highly motivated locals hunting for me. As an orca can’t warp cloaked I mostly had to hide until they gave up. I couldn’t safely log off, as they kept active combat probes, ready to catch me as soon as I e-warped away from a log off. One group kept at it for at least 2 hours. So you are saying in a situation like that I couldn’t even go afk for 15 min to go take a s\*\*t cause your probes would probably light me up in that time? The point is there are legit defensive uses for extended “afk” cloaking. Especially when you are caught in hostile territory in a ship not designed to fight. ---
**Author:** ![Succulent\_Succubi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/succulent_succubi/32/242516_2.png) [@Succulent\_Succubi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Succulent_Succubi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6759 "2020-08-22T13:05:42Z")
So it boils down to how risky it should be to go take a dump in hostile space… How risky it is to be afk for short periods of time can be adjusted by probe scan time and scan radius. Increase scan time, decrease radius to reduce chances of hostiles getting a lock on you (needing multiple slow cans). Which is right balance for that risk, i dont know. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6760 "2020-08-22T13:08:29Z")
> [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > dont know. Exactly, you don’t. Nor do you have any idea how “minimal” your idea is. It’s poorly thought out. But keep repeating it. Anyhow this has been fun. Now I have to pack up the car so the family can head home (bye vacation). ---
**Author:** ![Succulent\_Succubi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/succulent_succubi/32/242516_2.png) [@Succulent\_Succubi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Succulent_Succubi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6761 "2020-08-22T13:11:25Z")
Yup, I’m not clairvoyant… Luckily that balance is easily achieved by testing. ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6762 "2020-08-22T13:21:33Z")
> [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > What would it actually break in WH space? I keep a single probe on grid with my mining fleet and now it’s impossible for a scout to get a workable warp-in point on my grid for their friends waiting in the next system. So you’ve basically killed WH PvP with a single change. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > Yeah, coding wise: copy paste existing probe definition, change attributes (range, scan time, show cloaked ships). They could make this in few hours probably. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > Yes, its very minimal. You’re not a programmer. This isn’t how programming works. Why would “show cloaked ships” even be an existing variable? Do you know how this could even be implemented or what it might mean for the object classes and interfaces involved to achieve this? > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > It obviously is an issue because theres huge frikkin threads about it all the time. This is fallacious. It’s called argumentum ad populam, or appeal to popularity. It doesn’t mean there’s a real problem to fix here. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > So your logic in this is bit flawed… Which means your “huge frikkin threads” argument is even less valid. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > Devs can decide if it warrant changes that was suggested The decade long history of this debate should be a good indicator here. To paraphrase an old adage: “Given enough time, indecision becomes decision” > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > Only devs do and maybe you should leave it for them to decide if its an actual issue or not. See what I mean? > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > Anyway, theres some minor changes to cloaking happening with certain metaliminal storms already. So maybe Devs actually think certain aspects of cloaking is an issue. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > And BTW, if you somehow missed it, they are already changing cloaking with metaliminal storms… It would be a mistake to presume this implementation is in any way comparable to your suggestion as you don’t have any idea how the implementation is designed. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > That slow scanner probe would only affect those and leave normal gameplay pretty much unchanged. No it doesn’t leave normal gameplay unchanged. It screws over the gameplay of like 2600 star systems and that’s just to start. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > I still have no clue how it would actually break WH’s. And this is why you shouldn’t be making suggestions. You don’t know enough of the game to understand the ramifications for gameplay outside your little bubble. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > You can dodge those probes in wormholes too just fine since they would be visible on dscan. Except being AFK or long term cloaked in a wormhole is essential. There’s not always somewhere to dock up, the safelogging timer will get you killed. Wormhole players also need to be able to safely step away from the keyboard. A concerted hunting effort means being cloaked in a safespot for a very long time, often in a ship that can’t warp cloaked. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > By launching those slow probes in wormhole space, you only would announce yourself to other occupants (that are not actually afk or asleep) If you’re hunting someone in WH space they can probably see your interdictors on D-scan anyway. Generally speaking only one side of the hunter–prey equation is relying on a cloak. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > My suggestion was that you could “shine light” to small part of the system (probe would have limited scan radius). You would have to actively probe the system over several scans to get the whole picture. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > Again, I ask you how would it break WH gameplay? Except this is wrong because you’re not considering other applications. I only need to put these probes on the wormholes connections into my system and on grid with me and now I’m approaching perfect safety for my mining and ratting ops. So you’ve done significant damage to wormhole PvP. > [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > How risky it is to be afk for short periods of time can be adjusted by probe scan time and scan radius. No. I need to operate for potentially days at a time in a fractured wormhole system where I can’t anchor any kind of structure for safety and if there are hostiles I cannot log out without getting caught by combat probes during the safelog timer. **Long term/afk cloaking is a requirement in WH gameplay.** ---
**Author:** ![Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mkikaden_tiragen/32/243913_2.png) [@Mkikaden\_Tiragen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mkikaden_Tiragen)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6763 "2020-08-22T14:17:32Z")
The fact that the devs haven’t done anything to prevent AFK cloaking shows that AFK cloaking is not something they consider a problem. Do you genuinely think that over a decade of this topic showing up hasn’t been enough time for it to be ‘fixed’ if it is actually a problem/broken? Just look at all the other things they have ‘fixed’ in that time - even if the solutions are not perfect (by a long shot!) they tried _something_. AFK cloaking? Zero changes. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6765 "2020-08-22T16:42:21Z")
> [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > If youre not playing the game, just frikkin’ log off. IOW, buff RMT botters and bot-like players by making local a more accurate PvP avoidance tool. ---
**Author:** ![Succulent\_Succubi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/succulent_succubi/32/242516_2.png) [@Succulent\_Succubi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Succulent_Succubi)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 12:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6766 "2020-08-23T00:54:55Z")
Might not been perfectly clear on this but you got the idea bit wrong. You could not leave probes hanging around in the area. Instead you launch the probe, it takes few minutes to finish the scan and when finished it shows cloaked ships in the are at that moment and then the probe vanishes. So if something cloaky warps in after that its not visible on the scan anymore. And WH space just became that way (mostly thanks to cloaking making it too safe). As far as i recall, it was never intended by devs to be occupied long periods of time (if i remember correctly, there was some dev posts being bit amazed that players can actually settle in these systems). At the moment situation is that youre in this extremely dangerous and hostile place. You press one single button and the space becomes perfectly safe. Same in hostile nullsec. Press one button and guys owning the space can do absolutely nothing to you. And i have been going to wormholes for extended periods of time as an alpha many many times and survived (theres no cloaking as alpha clone). I simply used herons that are next to impossible to combat probe down. Theres a way to do that, youre just too reliant on broken game mehanic. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 1:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6767 "2020-08-23T01:18:33Z")
> [@Succulent\_Succubi](#): > > You press one single button and the space becomes perfectly safe Docking should be outlawed. Safe to do what? Nothing but scare players who will only undock if they are alone in a system. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6768 "2020-08-23T01:41:15Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Docking should be outlawed. But… but… but what about docking in a wh? I’m lucky. Downtime is when I have my morning coffee. I spent a couple of months working out of a cloaked orca with my 3 accts in a useless C2 that nobody wanted. Then I poped a station. I have to admit, I would like to be able to dock with it in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 2:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6769 "2020-08-23T02:02:56Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It’s only low risk because there are too many lazy and stupid players. Maintain PvP defenses, don’t fit excessive loot value on your farming ship, and don’t camp on the warp-in beacon. The problem here is that those “PvP Defenses” amount to a bunch of people sitting AFK ready to respond. The rest of those things mostly don’t really matter or apply here, unless by that you mean “never fly anything more expensive than a T1 battleship ratting” which seems a bit ridiculous. There are entire classes of ship with hulls more expensive than that. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Also, remember that it doesn’t take many black ops losses to negate your kills. Even a small chance of loss should be enough to end the threat entirely. Sure, in theory. In practice, not so much. Which is why Black Ops as a class sit at 90% efficiency, and a lot of those losses are incredibly stupid ones. Like high sec war losses. The Black Ops player has all the decision making power here, they can pick a time or place when risk is minimal, and they have more tools to avoid risk than the responding force has to persecute an attack against them. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Not really. The primary gank avoidance tool is passive: keeping your ISK to HP ratio below the point where you can be profitably ganked. Ganking is popular because of the steady supply of idiots who can’t comprehend the idea of leaving some of your freighter’s cargo space empty. Yes, but those are still things the _player_ can actively do. Fit their ship differently, adjust what’s in their cargo, ect. Those are, in comparison to this, active decisions. And yeah, there are plenty of stupid people. I expect the KB for Niarja should attest to that plenty over the next few weeks. I don’t have any issue with that. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Again, only because of lazy and/or stupid players. Why don’t you, for example, do your PvE farming in a fleet of 10 PvP fitted ships? That’s a major deterrent and everyone is actively playing the game. Because the cost/benefit on that is terrible. If I were to play that way then I’d lose more ISK in lost efficiency than I would if I lost a PvE ship. Thus the gameplay and incentives push toward this state of affairs. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > In which case they’re a paper tanked stealth bomber that you can probably one-shot before the incoming fleet can catch you. And if you’re aligned at full speed even a bomber can’t catch you before you warp out (unless you screw up and let it). It’s going to take a battleship more than 10 seconds to lock a stealth bomber in most fits. And yeah, but if the target warps out then that SB isn’t at any risk either, and they only need to be a little slow in reacting once to lose their ship to the Blops Gang, and if everyone just warps out then the bomber has effectively unlimited chances. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > PS: try using a MWD/MJD to constantly move around the PvE site so the attacker can’t get within tackle range. Kills your efficiency a lot of the time because you need to stay within range of spawns. Also means you need to change direction off of align, which creates a potential window of opportunity for an attacker. > [@Dark\_Magni](#): > > My theory is that the people that complain about AFK cloaky ships are just annoyed that they screw with their botting scripts. I don’t really get why people think this, since bots are actually _better_ able to react to this stuff than most players. A bot doesn’t lose concentration and it reacts much faster than a player in most cases. Plus most botters use cheap as \_\_\_\_ ships because they don’t have to care too much about efficiency per time. ---
**Author:** ![Derath\_Ellecon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derath_ellecon/32/289725_2.png) [@Derath\_Ellecon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derath_Ellecon)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 2:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6770 "2020-08-23T02:28:34Z")
> [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > The problem here is that those “PvP Defenses” amount to a bunch of people sitting AFK ready to respond. Only if you get caught. The first step is don’t get caught. I haven’t lost a PVE ship in years. I’ve been jumped plenty of times but I’ve gotten away every time. Yea maybe you ship down temporarily to something that aligns faster. One thing I still don’t get. And it goes back to my other questions (which nobody will answer). If your system has an afk cloaker in it, why not move next door? Or 2 systems over? Most SOV owners hold more than one system. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731/6771 "2020-08-23T02:46:46Z")
> [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > Only if you get caught. The first step is don’t get caught. I haven’t lost a PVE ship in years. I’ve been jumped plenty of times but I’ve gotten away every time. Yeah, but this isn’t particularly fun or satisfying either, and as I said later on in that same post, the cloaker only needs to get lucky once. > [@Derath\_Ellecon](#): > > One thing I still don’t get. And it goes back to my other questions (which nobody will answer). If your system has an afk cloaker in it, why not move next door? Or 2 systems over? Most SOV owners hold more than one system. Basically? Because if you’re one of only a few ships in the system it’s probably because you want less competition for sites, or you’re renting your space, or the cloaker just follows you. Overall this just doesn’t solve anything. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731.md?page=329) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/main-afk-cloaky-thread/4731.md?page=331)