# Manufacturing, is it only for the "big boys" **URL:** \ **Category:** Science & Industry\ **Created:** [September 15, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747 "2017-09-15T14:17:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/122 "2017-12-21T12:03:03Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > If you still think I don’t, that means you have no clue about what I do. That also means you didn’t read my first post where I explain what I do Oh I read it, and concluded you clearly hadn’t read the OP title or question. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I used the few crystals I had remaining to crash the market Which is just one example. Regardless of any claims to not be a “big boy” that is a big boy move & your operations are clearly not what the OP needs as a little guy just starting out, even if it wasn’t nearly all overly complicated unnecessary twaddle. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/123 "2017-12-21T12:07:04Z")
> [@Markus\_Jameson](#): > > hadn’t read the OP title or question. This shows you didn’t read it. I explain on the first sentence why I answered and _surprise_ I made no mention of OP. I don’t care about your opinion, when you can’t understand a single word of my post. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/124 "2017-12-21T13:18:04Z")
No, the correct quote would have been… > [@Markus\_Jameson](#): > > you clearly hadn’t read the OP title or question Editing your quotes to make it look like I’m saying _I_ hadn’t read the OP, nice one 😏 > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > This shows you didn’t read it. I explain on the first sentence why I answered and surprise I made no mention of OP. Yes I know, you think people should use your method rather than worry about margins … a silly pointlessly complex process requiring a special “program” or just look at the margins, says it all really 🤣 plus you think excel can’t handle all the calculations that might be involved in that 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/125 "2017-12-21T14:01:29Z")
> [@Markus\_Jameson](#): > > Yes I know, you think people should use your method rather than worry about margins No I don’t think anybody should use my program. I didn’t make it for anybody to use it besides me. You are imagining things. And no, excel can’t handle all the calculations that I require. Otherwise I would have used excel as I do for simple operations. Your comments are completely out of the topic. You showed you are unable to post anything constructive. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/126 "2017-12-21T19:14:23Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Your comments are completely out of the topic This from someone who admits their comments have nothing to do with the OP 😄 > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I made no mention of OP ---
**Author:** ![Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/radion_raskolnikoff/32/36071_2.png) [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Radion_Raskolnikoff)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/127 "2018-01-16T18:34:03Z")
so if you wana use COOL PROFITABLE blueprints, you need a lot of Skills, which means “a lot of time” (or money) so it is only for “big boys”, who spent 3-4 years getting proper skills ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/128 "2018-01-16T19:58:48Z")
A couple of month and 1-2 large injectors are enough. ---
**Author:** ![Calchua\_Ironian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calchua_ironian/32/49657_2.png) [@Calchua\_Ironian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calchua_Ironian)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 11:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/129 "2018-01-17T11:17:15Z")
Hi there, Is it ro have the prices of T1 ships changed drasticly over the past 2 months? Before i was able to make a bit of profit from them but now it seems that most of them are making loss. ---
**Author:** ![KenFlorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenflorian/32/449998_2.png) [@KenFlorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KenFlorian)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/130 "2018-01-17T22:02:31Z")
Actually…while “margin” matters it is not the only thing that matters. Here is a short post on the matter from the person who built the most powerful T1 production tool available at the time. [https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/6680425/#post6680425](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/6680425/#post6680425) The source code is available on GitHub and, with some C# savvy, the calculations it performed could be reverse engineered. ---
**Author:** ![KenFlorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenflorian/32/449998_2.png) [@KenFlorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KenFlorian)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/131 "2018-01-18T18:32:25Z")
@Markus_Jameson & @Anderson_Geten This is an example of the kind of build/sell decisions one can make if one intersects several inputs: gross margin, movement, competitors, manufacture duration. Especially note that the highest nominal hourly profit does not _necessarily_ correlate with most profitable or simple gross margin precisely because the movement and number of competitors in the market _directly_ influences periodic profit. ![Profit Factor](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/f/4fc612e95d7c48c78ce9b6edb231706eb9a7e7d7.png) ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/132 "2018-01-18T18:38:11Z")
That’s what I have, for T2 invention. right now citadel rigs are worth up to 40M/h but the margin is only 10% so meh. just checked again and it went back to 20M/h 😕 ---
**Author:** ![KenFlorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenflorian/32/449998_2.png) [@KenFlorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KenFlorian)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/133 "2018-01-18T20:16:45Z")
It’s the “profit factor” column that is important. It’s the synthetic assessment of the most profitable items to build/sell now. The raw hourly profit for the last item in my list is highest but it is not the most profitable to build/sell because of movement and competitor’s actions. Hat tip to @SJ_Astralana for a brilliant piece of software. ---
**Author:** ![Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/radion_raskolnikoff/32/36071_2.png) [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Radion_Raskolnikoff)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/134 "2018-01-18T21:38:37Z")
cmon gankers are always in need for thrashers and 280mm guns… [https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/?typeid=16242](https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/?typeid=16242) [https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/?typeid=488](https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/?typeid=488) i processed BigData LOL info, “december economy report”, which contains “killmail dump”, found most kill mails are about pods, and thrashers are the second place [OOPS!! i revealed huge secret!] ---
**Author:** ![KenFlorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenflorian/32/449998_2.png) [@KenFlorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KenFlorian)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/135 "2018-01-19T00:44:10Z")
I do only T1. One of my overall most profitable items for over 2 years is… I bought the blueprint for 5M, and fully improved it. It has ups and downs and makes nice ISK. It’s true that my biggest ticket items (though not necessarily highest “Profit Factor”) have taken several years to build…but the journey’s been worth it. It’s all there for the taking…just got to do the work. ---
**Author:** ![Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/radion_raskolnikoff/32/36071_2.png) [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Radion_Raskolnikoff)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/136 "2018-01-22T15:40:04Z")
Real Big Boys (aka Oldfags) have T2 BPOs so they have “ISK printing device” no matter how hard you try, you suck. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Hunter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fish_hunter/32/248430_2.png) [@Fish\_Hunter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fish_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/137 "2018-01-22T17:38:03Z")
You don’t really know what you’re talking about as far as your t2 bpo claim. Only on a few low volume tech 2 items is the price controlled by BPO owners. BPOs make it easier to gain isk manufacturing but are not required and are not the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/radion_raskolnikoff/32/36071_2.png) [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Radion_Raskolnikoff)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/138 "2018-01-22T18:45:19Z")
yea… and all that “WTS WTB T2 bpo” discussions are FAKE NEWS! Nobody uses Risk Free T2 BPO ISK printing machines… (just because you told so…) for ex. "I have t2 berserker 10/20 BPO… i do not use it! every time i play invention lottery and sell result for 4% profit!! " > **[Please close: \[WTS\] Berserker II T2 BPO](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-close-wts-berserker-ii-t2-bpo/36801)** > > Hi, I wanna sell 1x Berserker II BPO 10/20 in Jita. Price: 125 B. UPDATE: I’ll keep this BPO for my own. Topic can be closed. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/139 "2018-01-23T10:12:45Z")
> [@KenFlorian](#): > > It’s the “profit factor” column that is important. It’s the synthetic assessment of the most profitable items to build/sell now. Which by definition means it’s of no use to the (unmentioned but nonetheless present) “little guy” looking to get in on the action of the OP’s question. For this kind of tool to be of any use to anyone it more-or-less presumes that the anyone in question has a very large, very expensive, pretty much all encompassing library of fully researched blueprints at their disposal. It’s not a tool for the little guy. And interesting as it is I feel it doesn’t really help answer the OP’s question 🙂 Unless your trying to say the answer is yes? which I’d disagree with… I feel there are niches where the little guy can turn a profit, not a big one & maybe too small to interest our OP but they are there. ---
**Author:** ![KenFlorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenflorian/32/449998_2.png) [@KenFlorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KenFlorian)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/140 "2018-01-23T13:15:38Z")
Define: small guy as one person who enjoys buying raw materials and adding value (through time-measured labor and/or intellectual effort) and watching one’s net worth grow over time. If by “compete” one means “earn trillions per month” then, no, a single producer cannot earn trillions per month. @Markus_Jameson “which by definition….” On the contrary, it is the _only way_ for the small guy to compete with the big guys. The basic formulation I gave above was and remains (as far as I know) @SJ_Astralana 's unique contribution to the game. “it more-or-less presumes…” In fact, it presumes the exact opposite. Here is the “Market Research” report which shows “Profit Factor.” This report does not depend on owning any of the listed blue prints…it looks only at actual market data for a given trade location. Naturally, the most valuable Profit Factors are some of the more expensive BPO’s but there is plenty of true profit to be made from modestly priced BPOS. In practice, this list can change daily and over a short period of time I was able to isolate my starter BPOS (those worth 5M, not 5B) and got started. I reinvested profits along the way. I build only T1 The complete Market Research report contains a thousand items that actually changed hands within the last 24 hours in a familiar trading station ![Market%20Research](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/0/3/03ad1eb7aa2b967652b057d2f0f337923281196f.png) The general notion is expressed here: > **[Dodixie market decline - Market Discussions - EVE Online Forums](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/6680425/#post6680425)** > > Dodixie market decline: It seems to me, that not only market in gallente high sec space is evaporating, but also industry cost indexes go down... Is the general public aware of Cost indexes? I mean, is the bulk production of stuff dependent on it?... The software which does this is still available here (but takes some significant work to get it running and will need significant modifications when the XML API is retired. @Giddy_McFee You can “compete” but there is no free lunch. If you are willing to use either use real world cash OR real-world time AND demonstrably effective algorithms to determine what to build and when, you can fulfill, well, the definition I give above. The software which does this is still available here (but takes some significant work to get it running and will need significant modifications when the XML API is retired. OR just use the notion and the now several google sheets interfaces into the ESI api and build your own. Everything you need can be done with the google sheets listed here and do not require knowledge of programming or ESI > [@Spreadsheets](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/spreadsheets/44424/5): > > Everything you need can probably be done with these two sets of google sheets/ESI code sets. There are healthy profits to be had in T1 manufacturing, _even if building in a NPC station._ ---
**Author:** ![Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/radion_raskolnikoff/32/36071_2.png) [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Radion_Raskolnikoff)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/141 "2018-01-23T19:34:55Z")
i see you have huge diarhea of words… 1. if you have T2 Berserked BPO, you CAN make Billions a month without any risks and almost zero efforts 2. your table shows Raven production is profitable which is total BS 3. you story about magical “demonstrably effective algorithms” [… offensive profanity is removed…] [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747.md?page=8)