# Manufacturing, is it only for the "big boys" **URL:** \ **Category:** Science & Industry\ **Created:** [September 15, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747 "2017-09-15T14:17:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/radion_raskolnikoff/32/36071_2.png) [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Radion_Raskolnikoff)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/142 "2018-01-23T19:36:00Z")
> [@KenFlorian](#): > > You can “compete” but there is no free lunch. yea… you can eat bread crumbs from BIG BOYS TABLE ---
**Author:** ![Giddy\_McFee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/giddy_mcfee/32/375711_2.png) [@Giddy\_McFee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Giddy_McFee)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/143 "2018-01-24T14:53:42Z")
It looks like the information has been posted twice, however the spreadsheet goes to show that you need some ability in order to code or program or develop tools to be able to harvest information about the locality where you want to trade. I don’t have that ability, I have the game client and the (to me) clumsy “tools” that it provides as well as looking at individual items in places like eve market data etc. I don’t mind putting in the effort if I knew where to put that effort, but with knowledge hard to come by becuase of peoples (understandable) reluctance to give information means I may as well run explo sites and get 100m loot to sell, or simply rat. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/144 "2018-01-26T16:11:38Z")
I agree with you. Takes loads of time to make a correct program, test it, and enhance it. The time investment is very important. You can rent, I guess, some program. You can join, I guess an industry corp to participate. I still don’t think this is an easy task, nor fun, unless you invested enough time/money to get yourself the tools required for it. ---
**Author:** ![SurrenderMonkey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/surrendermonkey/32/153964_2.png) [@SurrenderMonkey](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SurrenderMonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/145 "2018-01-26T17:39:06Z")
TBH the only economical way to make money with a T2 BPO these days is to flip it for more than you paid. They’re a horrible investment if you intend to actually do production. ---
**Author:** ![Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/radion_raskolnikoff/32/36071_2.png) [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Radion_Raskolnikoff)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/146 "2018-01-27T14:25:11Z")
> [@SurrenderMonkey](#): > > economical way to make money with a T2 BPO And if you have a little Brain, you can produce T2 BPCs from T2 BPO, and have total control over market. ---
**Author:** ![SurrenderMonkey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/surrendermonkey/32/153964_2.png) [@SurrenderMonkey](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SurrenderMonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/147 "2018-01-27T16:37:31Z")
So I take it this isn’t a topic you actually know _anything_ about. Cool. Your production capacity is still constrained to the maximum copy rate, so your overall production for all but the least popular items is still never going to approach being able to fulfill market demand. Let’s look at the example of a Berserker II BPO you were prattling on about earlier. The copy time in a T2 Raitaru with max skills/no implant is 968 seconds (16m 8s). We’ll go ahead and round it in your favor and say it only takes 15 minutes. You can make 4 copies per hour. 96 per day. 2880 per month. Now let’s look at the market for Berserker IIs. If we limit ourselves to just the Jita market, the slowest day in the last month sold 646 (that’s today, which isn’t over yet) and the fastest sold 2816. Care to explain how we’re going to have “total control over the market” when, even with copying, our highest rate of production generates only a fraction of the quantity demanded for a single hub, let alone the rest of the universe? Meanwhile, you have an absurd sum of money tied up in the BPO - money that could be doing almost anything else and yielding a better return. If you’re still dumb enough to think that T2 BPOs are a good investment, there’s a solution for that: Get on out there and buy yourself one. There is one scenario in which they make sense: If you have _so much ISK_ that you just **can’t** effectively put it all to work any other way, then a T2 BPO could maybe be attractive. For the most part, they’re just collector’s items these days. ---
**Author:** ![KenFlorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenflorian/32/449998_2.png) [@KenFlorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KenFlorian)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/148 "2018-01-27T18:29:42Z")
Unfair! You used your maths. Nerf maths! ---
**Author:** ![SurrenderMonkey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/surrendermonkey/32/153964_2.png) [@SurrenderMonkey](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SurrenderMonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/149 "2018-01-27T19:32:54Z")
It’s also worth noting that, afaik, copying doesn’t actually save you anything wrt to T2 BPOs. The base time is a little shorter than manufacturing. 20% shorter, in fact… …The amount covered by TE research. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/150 "2018-01-28T23:08:16Z")
> [@SurrenderMonkey](#): > > Your production capacity is still constrained to the maximum copy rate, so your overall production for all but the least popular items is still never going to approach being able to fulfill market demand. You have a strange way of looking at economics. Unless I’m perhaps taking a little bit of a larger thought process completely out of context. hard to see how mind, really can’t be bothered to read it all, not after hitting a line as (seemingly … to me) ludicrous (in the context of the position you appear to hold?) as that. A supply constricted to below demand is _always_ a (very, _very_) good thing for profit margins. ---
**Author:** ![SurrenderMonkey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/surrendermonkey/32/153964_2.png) [@SurrenderMonkey](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SurrenderMonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/151 "2018-01-28T23:37:23Z")
> [@Markus\_Jameson](#): > > Unless I’m perhaps taking a little bit of a larger thought process completely out of context. hard to see how mind, really can’t be bothered to read it all, not after hitting a line as (seemingly … to me) ludicrous (in the context of the position you appear to hold?) as that. Try this again in English. > [@Markus\_Jameson](#): > > A supply constricted to below demand is always a (very, very) good thing for profit margins. Maybe stop licking that window long enough to realize that we’re talking about one person’s own production capacity, and not the overall supply of the system? Additionally, the claim being responded to was that a BPO could be used to control the market via copies. I was responding specifically to this claim. It’s false because, A: Copying doesn’t actually improve production rate for T2 BPOs, and, B: For all but the most useless items, the production capacity of a T2 BPO falls well short of demand. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/152 "2018-01-29T11:02:51Z")
> [@SurrenderMonkey](#): > > Try this again in English It is, take some classes or something, your inadequate grasp of the language isn’t my problem 😉 > [@SurrenderMonkey](#): > > the claim being responded to was that a BPO could be used to control the market via copies Obviously a dumb assertion if that’s really what was said, having a BPO never lets you control a market unless it’s the only BPO & to say otherwise is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/153 "2018-01-29T15:26:20Z")
> [@Markus\_Jameson](#): > > if that’s really what was said Huh! it was what was said. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/154 "2018-01-29T20:02:04Z")
said here > [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](#): > > And if you have a little Brain, you can produce T2 BPCs from T2 BPO, > > and have total control over market. ---
**Author:** ![Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/radion_raskolnikoff/32/36071_2.png) [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Radion_Raskolnikoff)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/155 "2018-01-30T20:27:34Z")
> [@SurrenderMonkey](#): > > A: Copying doesn’t actually improve production rate for T2 BPOs, why you are so slow thinker? 1 you have ONE BPO - you can start production on One Production Line vs 2 you have ONE BPO and 4 BPC - you can start production on FOUR Production Linez, and use BPO in the lab to produce another set 4 BPC ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/156 "2018-01-30T20:38:14Z")
Try industry one day, this way you’ll know what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/radion_raskolnikoff/32/36071_2.png) [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Radion_Raskolnikoff)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/157 "2018-01-30T20:40:15Z")
unlike others i know what i am talking about ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/158 "2018-01-30T20:41:27Z")
people told why what you are affirming is false, and then you still come and repeat “but I can do it”. You OBVIOUSLY have no idea what you are talking about. At all. @SurrenderMonkey made a full post to explain why your argument was absurd. granted, it’s a bit long, because it makes more than 2 lines. ---
**Author:** ![SurrenderMonkey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/surrendermonkey/32/153964_2.png) [@SurrenderMonkey](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SurrenderMonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/159 "2018-01-31T03:57:58Z")
> [@Radion\_Raskolnikoff](#): > > why you are so slow thinker? > > 1 you have ONE BPO - you can start production on One Production Line > > vs > > 2 you have ONE BPO and 4 BPC - you can start production on FOUR Production Linez, and use BPO in the lab to produce another set 4 BPC So you reckon that those copies sprang out of thin air, eh? Hint: It takes almost exactly the same amount of time to copy a BPO as it does to produce from it. The base production time is 25% longer than the base copy time, but this is negated by TE 20. In the best case scenario, T2 manufacturing is actually a hair _faster_ than copying. See if you can figure out why. ---
**Author:** ![KenFlorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenflorian/32/449998_2.png) [@KenFlorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KenFlorian)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/160 "2018-01-31T15:35:22Z")
@SurrenderMonkey Surely you are an endurance athlete and not just a wimpy marathoner. No. You, sir, must be an extreme endurance athlete. ---
**Author:** ![SurrenderMonkey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/surrendermonkey/32/153964_2.png) [@SurrenderMonkey](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/SurrenderMonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747/161 "2018-01-31T15:51:07Z")
Nah, Dunning-Kruger manufacturing posters just make me triggered AF. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/manufacturing-is-it-only-for-the-big-boys/24747.md?page=9)