# Marauders - not quite enough **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 24, 2021, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336 "2021-02-24T07:38:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/21 "2021-02-25T11:53:32Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Much better, as it turns out. > > Carrier does 2700 dps > Risk / Rewad ballance in this game is a goddamn joke. Why is risk/reward balance a joke when Marauders deal more damage but are more risky to move around? I mean, a carrier can just jump around instead of gating. ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/22 "2021-02-25T12:05:34Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > Buy a ship and click bastion lol all you get is protection from torps - you still need to get out of bastion and into warp. Lots of interesting, dynamic skill based fights to be had, with a bit more commitment and risk for the hunters. But you don’t sound like you’d even know how to fit or pilot a ship in order to actually do that. The HS krab in that video certainly does not. > [@Cypherous](#): > > didn’t watch local enough lol the whole point of bastion is to be locked in one place but i guess if you’re trash at d-scanning you’ll have a hard time. > [@Cypherous](#): > > Literally a case of “git gud” as the kids say cute 😃 i bet you 1mil isk for every rank im ahead of you on zkill link your combat main an i’ll link mine 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/23 "2021-02-25T12:15:19Z")
Marauders are OP now. ---
**Author:** ![Dannboi\_OftheHanger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dannboi_ofthehanger/32/257180_2.png) [@Dannboi\_OftheHanger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dannboi_OftheHanger)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/24 "2021-02-25T12:16:41Z")
> [@Dannboi\_OftheHanger](#): > > Paly and kronos needs baked in range and paly needs baked % in dmg buff for the cap deficieny it has atm. (or just give em another mid/low to compensate) You do know not all 4 ships need to be equal in terms of ease of use and performance right? 😛 [/quote] I know there should be a difference but double the dmg is just stupid XD ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/25 "2021-02-25T12:20:43Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > But you don’t sound like you’d even know how to fit or pilot a ship in order to actually do that. Ahh yes, resorting to ad hominem already, you’re really proving your point > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > all you get is protection from torps And you’ve yet to explain why bastion would somehow magically make you immune to torps, nor how you would resolve the issue that NPC’s use torps and making you essentially immune to a section of NPC’s would be horridly imbalanced But we both know you didn’t actually think that far ahead > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > the whole point of bastion is to be locked in one place Indeed, it makes you vulnerable, its called taking a risk, making yourself immune to a specific missile type that poses a high risk to you negates the entire downside of bastion > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > i bet you 1mil isk for every rank im ahead of you on zkill Its cute you think that a padded killboard means something, yeah i gave up worrying about that about a decade ago > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > link your combat main an i’ll link mine Don’t need to, i already post with my main, unlike you 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/26 "2021-02-25T12:21:15Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > just jump around instead of gating. and lose a 500m cyno ship in the process, huh? I know, it’s really hard to fit a cloak when you move a 3 bil isk ship around HS since the danger is not ‘actually’ bad enough to punish people into not being bad at the game but the option to be 100% safe is there if you choose to use it or not. And once you’re in your site you can’t get ganked since warp machanics don’t allow them to land on top of you (unless you decide to stay at the entrance). In Null you have cloaky campers light a cyno next to you. If HS made half the money Krabs get in Null sec it would still be a joke, instead they make even more. ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/27 "2021-02-25T12:38:00Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > As opposed to your super high skill > [@Cypherous](#): > > ad hominem duh… > [@Cypherous](#): > > why bastion would somehow magically make you immune to torps because smart bomb i see, you really don’t disappoint my expectations about your skill and game knowledge > [@Cypherous](#): > > immune to a section of NPC’s Rat DSP is really irellevant here since you still have to fit for perma tank annyways, wich won’t be stable using the bomb. The whole thing really requires a specialised fitting and you simply can’t have everything all at once. > [@Cypherous](#): > > immune to a specific missile type that poses a high risk to you negates the entire downside Guess noone told you there are different weapon types and things like ewar to break a target like this if you know how do do more then just jump a cyno and push F1. Just the Torps would be enough to “tackle” it if he dies as soon as bastion drops. > [@Cypherous](#): > > i gave up worrying about that about a decade ago yeah it looks like it, if that account is your main annyhow i can enshure you that you better not talk about “skill” - i have enough for both of us. > **[Sindrakin Gorion | Character](https://zkillboard.com/character/2112690697/)** > > Sindrakin Gorion: 10,871 ships destroyed and 1,179 ships lost. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/28 "2021-02-25T12:46:02Z")
All I can hear in here is a gewn krab wanking ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/29 "2021-02-25T12:48:58Z")
no cuddles for McCandless shush, troll. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/30 "2021-02-25T12:50:48Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Something something slightly more on the ball than the balls Ive been talking for the last hour Dont you have isk to go suck on, krabby? ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/31 "2021-02-25T12:55:33Z")
i have a big toe on my left foot you could suck and keep your dirty mouth busy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/32 "2021-02-25T12:56:35Z")
Is that another lie? Do you just have a fused paddle? ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/33 "2021-02-25T15:14:07Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > because smart bomb i mean, good luck with that, smartbombs aren’t going to keep you alive from these 8 bombers you’re so afraid of, even if you doubled the cycle time lol > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > i see, you really don’t disappoint my expectations about your skill and game knowledge No i’m more than aware of smartbombs existence, and how they used to be used to counter missiles, long before they changed missiles to be able to be fired as a group negating the impact they have as they can’t pop all missiles at once without massively stacking them And you still haven’t explained WHY they should have immunity to torpedos > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Guess noone told you there are different weapon types and things like ewar to break a target ECM still allows the person you jam to target you, it only prevents you locking other people, ECM bursts only work in a short range and aren’t as effective as you seem to think and definitely wouldn’t help in this instance And i am aware there are different weapon systems, but i’m still waiting for the actual reason you seem to think they should be immune to torps 😛 > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > annyhow i can enshure you that you better not talk about “skill” - i have enough for both of us. Not sure why you seem to think that killboard is in any way impressive lol So yeah, explain the actual reason why you think they should actually be immune to torps mr high skilled expert > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > All I can hear in here is a gewn krab wanking ikr ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Raven\_101](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_raven_101/32/383465_2.png) [@Mr\_Raven\_101](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Raven_101)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/34 "2021-02-25T15:58:05Z")
> [@Kei\_Hazard](#): > > Now Marauders are S+ in efficiency, you take the rewards, and just also let the risks be there. S+ in dry efficiency. If we combine it with risk, i think… around F grade. ---
**Author:** ![Katya\_Itzimaru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katya_itzimaru/32/512123_2.png) [@Katya\_Itzimaru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katya_Itzimaru)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/35 "2021-02-25T16:06:50Z")
I think there’s some misrepresentation going on here with the numbers: > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > a Marauder is simply countered by less then 500m worth of torp bombers 500m is going to get you about 10 t1 fit bombers, which are likely to be getting between 450 and 550 dps depending on skills and fits. So say 4500-5500 incoming dps. If you overheat your tank and pop your strong exile/blue pill on a marauder, you can push your tank up a long way in bastion, particularly on shield marauders. I fly a Kronos in missions from time to time and it reaches 3000ehp/s doing this. So now you’re taking 2500-3500 incoming dps, but you’ve about 100k buffer to play with. You’ve got at least 30s (likely more) to kill or force away 5 of the 10 bombers, as the incoming dps differential drops heavily with each bomber killed. You’ve got a load of utility highs and spare fitting, so why not fit a few neuts in there if you’re in dangerous space. You can probably fit an expensive web too. You’re also immune to all ewar. There’s a lot of options to get pretty solid application and you can probably kill a bomber with 1-2 volleys. I’d estimate that a marauder pilot that reacts correctly is going to have a reasonable chance at killing 500m of bombers and winning a fight 1v10. (Assuming that a marauder pilot capable of this hasn’t already de-cycled bastion and escaped as soon as they saw the neut in intel/local) > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > and lose a 500m cyno ship in the process, huh? Just looking at pilgrim losses it’s clear they’re between 200 and 250, and that’s ignoring the new cheap deployables. I understand the fustration but the risk of being heavily blobbed or cap dropped is the balancing factor for marauders. There’s also a lot fewer “skill” options on the side of the attacker when they’re shooting at something that’s stationary and immune to ewar, so they’re forced to use overwhelming DPS or neuting. Looking at the safer regions of nullsec, there’s a lot of people who have a good enough risk/reward benefit to using marauders in PVE now, but it should be obvious that Delve is perhaps the worst place to use them. ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Sebiestar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_sebiestar/32/502522_2.png) [@Mina\_Sebiestar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Sebiestar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/36 "2021-02-25T16:31:10Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > one more thing: > Please give another mid to Kronos and Paladin. Paladin H8 M4 L7 R2 = **21 slots total** Kronos H8 M4 L7 R2 = **21 slots total** Golem H8 M7 L4 R2 = **21 slots total** Vargur H8 M5 L6 R2 = **21 slots total** Check your entitlement just because you dislike something CCP will not run to add slots for your convenience. Option rather than “i want more give CCP” is L/M slot swap. > [@Dannboi\_OftheHanger](#): > > kronos still needs to be in range for blasters Option rather than “i want more bake range CCP” is use any other weapon type. News everyone blaster ships need to get in range since 2003. ---
**Author:** ![Hink\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hink_yaken/32/247042_2.png) [@Hink\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hink_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/37 "2021-02-25T16:41:11Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > annyhow i can enshure you that you better not talk about “skill” - i have enough for both of us And then you link a goon F1 drone Killboard, i cant anymore 😃 The two small scales find are frigs and you with a Myrmedon against a T1 cruiser. Like it looks fun, but i dont think thats the position to talk about enought skill for two 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mikal\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mikal_phoenix/32/246988_2.png) [@Mikal\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mikal_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/38 "2021-02-25T18:08:36Z")
Vargur H8 M6 L5 I would prefer to have the same layout as the Golem. ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/39 "2021-02-25T22:05:57Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > can’t pop all missiles at once is not the point, just to reduce it to be surviveable Torps go just under 5k m/s Bombs should hit a good portion of torps, enough to live ‘while’ you’re in siege and have cap. > [@Cypherous](#): > > ECM Doesn’t actually work against a sieged Marauder, i was thinking about things like neuts, recon tackle and so on. > [@Cypherous](#): > > why you think they should actually be immune to torps Not immune, just able to fight back. Because CCP said they would like them to be used outside of HS as well - this is a way to make this happen. You’d get a trade off to be less easy to gank by F1 monkeys but also a juicy kill for anyone with the tools and skill to crack it. Any reason it SHOULDN’T be done? > [@Katya\_Itzimaru](#): > > you can push your tank up a long way in bastion Well that guy went poof really quick. > **[Golem | Ma'kal | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/90857405/)** > > Ma'kal (Ni Industries) lost their Golem in TCAG-3 (Period Basis). Final Blow by Sindrakin Gorion (Amok.) flying in a Hound. Total Value: 2,005,665,016.79 ISK Armor isn’t nearly as easy to tank as shield is. 2500 ehp/s is more realistic and still just a few min of cap if you’re also running smart bombs. Even if you forego DPS modules it’s a really short way from tanking them to melting in a few seconds and adding a few more t1 bomber alts is easy - unlike comming up with a propper comp and pilots to fly that competently, actually risking a value similar to the targets in the process. > [@Katya\_Itzimaru](#): > > 2 volleys yeah, it’s actually amazing how many bomber pilots die without ever having been tackled and due to not keeping up transversal speed. The outcome would heavily depend on skill on both sides and thats exactly why i like the idea to begin with. It’s still in favour of the hunters. > [@Katya\_Itzimaru](#): > > they’re between 200 and 250, and that’s ignoring the new cheap deployables. depends how you fit them. But will you be able to launch those things inside a tether? And beside, a cloak is free to activate as may times as you want once you bought it and doesn’t cost fuel either. > [@Katya\_Itzimaru](#): > > forced to use overwhelming DPS or neuting It would take the ‘cheap’ option to bring more DPS with bomber alts off the tabe. T3C or Blops can still do that but now it’s a lot more ISK on grid as well. You need to approach to get in range for neuts and secure tackle - there are options to fight back or escape. It would be much more interesting and dynamic PVP content where numbers mean less then execution. > [@Katya\_Itzimaru](#): > > Delve is perhaps the worst place to use them. Or just the right place if you’re actually able to do things in a cloaky camped system and maybe bait blopses and T3Cs. “Safe” regions get the DBS income nerf, are still targeted by ESS hunters and filaments so if you just want to avoid PVP and maximise ISK it takes a special breed of idiot not to move your PVE farm to HS or a WH at this point. Risk / Reward ballance in this game is just a joke. > [@Mina\_Sebiestar](#): > > **21 slots total** lol show me a paladin fit that gets the same ehp/s and dps as a golem. Actually, if CCP does ballance their ships by counting slots like you do it might explain why the ballance is so crappy overall. Extra mid slot would still leave them short on cap / tank / dps performance and still damage locked but it would add just enough utility to allow for some really interesting fits. > [@Mina\_Sebiestar](#): > > use any other weapon or do a little tweak to make the hull actually usefull - duh. You’re not making any argument how any of this would be bad for the game. > [@Hink\_Yaken](#): > > a goon F1 drone Killboard “Hink Yaken” doesn’t even exist on zkill but im pretty shure he’s a little wannabe who likes to gank Myrmidons in his Loki and actually believes that this makes him a solo pvper 🙂 > **[W-KQPI (Delve) 2021-02-07 10:13 ET](https://br.evetools.org/br/60312c9aed8590001b8c897a)** > > Battle involved 6 pilots > who lost a total of 433,724,399 isk ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/40 "2021-02-25T22:30:04Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Not immune, just able to fight back. Drones, webbers, and most importantly, friends, if you’re solo you’re a target and you should expect to die if you get caught, plain and simple > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > or do a little tweak to make the hull actually usefull - duh. No, you want a tweak that in some way grants them borderline immunity to the ship that poses the largest threat to them, yeah, totally seems balanced to me lol [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336.md?page=3)