# Marauders - not quite enough **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 24, 2021, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336 "2021-02-24T07:38:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/41 "2021-02-25T22:46:55Z")
I think relative ship costs do play a role in balance, and that this is a factor that must be considered. Of course, the most obvious place where costs influence balance is in suicide ganking, but I strongly assert that it’s influence extends throughout a game with a full loot death mechanic. Now, don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to say that cheaper ships shouldn’t be able to kill more expensive ships -far from it (indeed, I don’t see anything wrong with a fleet of SB’s being able to take down a Marauder). However, if you make it too cheap and easy for players to kill expensive ships, players won’t fly them anymore -which is bad balance in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Sebiestar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_sebiestar/32/502522_2.png) [@Mina\_Sebiestar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Sebiestar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/42 "2021-02-25T22:48:05Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > show me a paladin fit that gets the same ehp/s and dps as a golem. not gonna theory craft fits for you if you want stats of a golem than fly one. > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Extra mid slot not gonna happen also i want one extra low so vargur can fit armor tank also extra low for golem for more damage kronos will out damage it with void it is simple not fair. ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/43 "2021-02-25T23:11:08Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > if you’re solo you’re a target and you should expect to die if you get caught Torps VS Battleship simply doesn’t leave enough time to warp a response to your grid. If the Bombers fly their ships propperly they can froce him to stay in bastion untill cap runs out and not lose a single man. > [@Cypherous](#): > > borderline immunity Only if the hunters are bad pilots and the Krab knows what he’s doing and has the propper fit to do it. Risk a few more ISK and fly your ship propperly and it’s still a fairly easy kill if the Krab is solo, bring similar numbers you’d bring or a similar priced carrier and it’s just as easy. And what part of “looting 1 bil worth of crap in exchange for ‘not really’ risking 500m worth of Bombers” is it your enltightened understanding finds to be “ballanced”? ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/44 "2021-02-25T23:47:15Z")
> [@Mina\_Sebiestar](#): > > if you want stats of a golem than fly one I’d trade some stats for the utility i was talking about - having neither on any of the armour Marauders is not a law of nature, it’s just a poor ballancing decission. > [@Mina\_Sebiestar](#): > > i want one extra low so vargur can fit armor tank Only that would ‘actually’ be unballanced instead of giving a better trade off between the ship types > [@Mina\_Sebiestar](#): > > more damage kronos will out damage it with void it is simple not fair lol just for curiosity i simulated a Kronos with 3k+ DPS, now i have eye cancer ☹ 10% more damage then Golem at 1/6 the range ( 🤣 ) for about 30% less EHP/s And they’re both ■■■■ fits that would not live 5 minutes in null sec annyways. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/45 "2021-02-26T00:16:20Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > And what part of “looting 1 bil worth of crap in exchange for ‘not really’ risking 500m worth of Bombers” is it your enltightened understanding finds to be “ballanced”? Its cute that you still keep bringing up value like it in some way entitles you to be immune to them, each bomber is doing the DPS of a battleship, if you’re not able to properly fit to deal with that threat you deserve to explode, its very simple, you’ve so far given no actual reason as to why you think the ship should be immune to its greatest threat If you’re that scared of bombers don’t fly something that is an easy target for them to kill I will be sure to let bombers bar know about this thread so they can admire how scared the goon krabs are of their fleets 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hink\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hink_yaken/32/247042_2.png) [@Hink\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hink_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/46 "2021-02-26T00:20:46Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > “Hink Yaken” doesn’t even exist on zkill but im pretty shure he’s a little wannabe who likes to gank Myrmidons in his Loki and actually believes that this makes him a solo pvper A relativly new toon, that never left NPC corp, but gives tips on the forum about Lvl 5 missions and WH ratting. Why would i not have a killboard? Am i using a shitty toon, so i guy trade in peace? 🛡 Also, whats going on with double injector, compact repper vedmark, that refuses to fit highs? How did the Stiletto die without taking dmg? And what where T1 gun, no active tank Hurricans thinking, when they warped into a high DPS site? Still, seems like a proper bait, and i respect setting that up. ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/47 "2021-02-26T00:36:37Z")
> [@Hink\_Yaken](#): > > Why would i not have a killboard? Am i using a shitty toon, so i guy trade in peace? same reason i post on an alt but you’re the one calling people f1 whatever so one would think you either have the kills to justify talking down on others, or should be quiet… > [@Hink\_Yaken](#): > > How did the Stiletto die without taking dmg he self destructed because all his friends were dead, but no worries, i can kill frigates as well > **[K-6K16 (Delve) 2021-02-14, 20:30 ET](https://br.evetools.org/br/60312bb2ed8590001b8c8979)** > > Battle involved 7 pilots > who lost a total of 313m isk ---
**Author:** ![Alexcat\_Johnson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alexcat_johnson/32/240838_2.png) [@Alexcat\_Johnson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alexcat_Johnson)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/48 "2021-02-26T00:43:07Z")
I HAVE A SOLUTION!!! 1. Take a fleet out with ye 2. Have some of them equipped with defender launchers to counter bombs 3. Have some bring SkyBreakers/StormBringers in there too and link their beams off drones (or something) to damage anything (in your case bombers) in the aria 4. Don’t whine if you die, you just sound stupid also, according to Zkills you haven’t lost a ship (or gotten any kills) for 2 years why hide behind an alt? because you know people are going to criticize you like i am? ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/49 "2021-02-26T00:49:19Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > Its cute that you are so scared of the idea of having to actually work for kills… Bombers are cheap and powerful, there should be some trade off. Guess if you make them 500m a pop would be a fair solution too, and certainly verry popular with the crowd 🙂 > [@Cypherous](#): > > given no actual reason as to why you think the ship should be immune to its greatest threat yep, reading is hard. > [@](#): > > extend it to non-high sec PVE https://embed.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/lmopil/dev_blog_bastion_of_war/gnw9w1b/?embed=true&ref_source=embed&ref=share&showmedia=false&showmore=false&depth=1&context=1 > [@Cypherous](#): > > don’t fly something that is an easy target for them to kill like “any ship there is” yeah, sounds like a good idea > [@Cypherous](#): > > bombers bar would get way more content if providing targets for them was economically viable. Are you even aware they no longer operate because CCP basically killed their content along Null sec ratting? Funny how these things work. So yeah, go tell them i miss them \<3 ---
**Author:** ![Alexcat\_Johnson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alexcat_johnson/32/240838_2.png) [@Alexcat\_Johnson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alexcat_Johnson)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 12:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/50 "2021-02-26T00:55:56Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > bombers bar > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > would get way more content if providing targets for them was economically viable. > Are you even aware they no longer operate because CCP basically killed their content along Null sec ratting? Funny how these things work. So yeah, go tell them i miss them \<3 Hahaha yeah funny that, they do in-fact still operate. I enjoy going on their fleets actually, its fun! (and if your wondering, we find PLENTY of content, our hunters are damn good at their job) Oh yeah, and why your hidding behind an alt is making sense now ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 1:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/51 "2021-02-26T01:00:40Z")
lol i have not seen them in a long while but yeah their concept of mass blops fleets is pretty good strategy > [@Alexcat\_Johnson](#): > > hiding behind an alt the dyslexia is strong in this one, huh? According to your killboard you’d make a nice breakfast for me 🙂 just scroll up a little and see for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/52 "2021-02-26T01:03:08Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Bombers are cheap and powerful, there should be some trade off. There is, its called being literally paper thin, never heard of the concept of a glass cannon? > **[Urban Dictionary: Glass Cannon](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Glass%20Cannon)** > > Refers to someone or something that deals high amounts of damage but had a very weak defense or health. Often a term for games. The best way to fully embrace being a glass cannon is to be very careful when you attack. Wait for an opening in which you... Bombers are not known for taking a lot of damage, they are flying glass cannons > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > yep, reading is hard. No, i read it, and all you’ve whined about is how your milti billion ISK ship dies to 500m worth of ships that carry battleship sized damage and are literally designed to shoot large immobile targets, you’re complaining about the literal key weakness of marauders > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > like “any ship there is” Any ship can be a target when its flown by someone who doesn’t have the skill or experience to keep it safe sure, in your case, marauders it would seem > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Are you even aware they no longer operate because CCP basically killed their content along Null sec ratting? Considering i’m sat in their ingame channel and on their discord and have flown with them recently, i would like to say citation needed there > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > lol i have not seen them in a long while Ahh, so because “you” haven’t seen them in a while they must clearly no longer operate, wasn’t aware you were such a vital target that required hunting specifically Amazing logic, i guess that explains the choice of alliance ---
**Author:** ![Kei\_Hazard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kei_hazard/32/245509_2.png) [@Kei\_Hazard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kei_Hazard)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 1:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/53 "2021-02-26T01:09:59Z")
You want risk free content then probably go high sec lvl 4 mission with them. Remember don’t bling it, fit them with T2 stuff, the efficiency will be alright. Or simply go Abyss deadspace in some high sec corners, it is completely safe For null if you are paying attention, 30 seconds of Bastion is already half of the time compared to before. Don’t forget to fit MJD or at least don’t stay at 0, make good use of the extra lock range and the good optimal. Now with 200+ sensor strength, normal probe ship won’t be able to pin you down easily. and the chance of you getting away is already pretty decent. Never forget that Marauders do have the ability to fight back, not like Vexors/Myrmidons that had hard time killing tackles. With extra highs the chance of nueting out small tackles is also decent, and normal cruisers/battlecruiser won’t even stand a chance against a Marauder in Bastion if you bring a web. Compared to Dreads who stands there for 5 minutes, and capitals that once bubbled, will stay there for a decent of time, 30 seconds bastion model and a ship that could fit heavy nuet + MWD/MJD do have better chance of survive. ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/54 "2021-02-26T13:56:14Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > glass cannon Their speed is tank enough to dodge large gun shots, they have more range then any point and they have a cloak - a pretts nice “glass cannon” indeed. Why not have a dictionary conform “Bastion” too? > **[Definition of BASTION](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bastion)** > > a projecting part of a fortification; a fortified area or position; stronghold… See the full definition You’re not giving any reason why there shouldn’t be one ship type with a specific counter to one of the most powerful weapon systems It still has enough weaknesses to ‘pay’ for the privilegue. > [@Cypherous](#): > > the literal key weakness of marauders Is why they’re not used in Null - if CCP want to fix that, heres one way to do it. F1 mokey can still gank Carriers or such - there would be a trade off in mobility and surviving other type of Hunting partys. Or - dare i say it - adapt your play style and fleet comps to earn your kills. > [@Cypherous](#): > > no longer operate well that’s what i had heared but i guess there is still a difference between beeing out of operation or merely being irellevant so i apologise for my mistake. Really should have paid more attention to your killboard - only 4 months ago you ganked a Porpoise together with 65 bombers. Must have been an epic battle. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/55 "2021-02-26T14:08:18Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Their speed is tank enough to dodge large gun shots, they have more range then any point and they have a cloak - a pretts nice “glass cannon” indeed. Light drones, stasis webifiers, stasis webification drones, take your pick, all things a bomber can’t deal with, if they are at range you have no problems as they can’t point you outside of 20km anyway so you just MJD away then leave and laugh You not choosing to bring something to handle them isn’t CCP’s problem > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > You’re not giving any reason why there shouldn’t be one ship type with a specific counter to one of the most powerful weapon systems A weapon system designed specifically to shoot large slow moving/immobile targets, aka a bastioned marauder, so please explain why your large slow moving immobile ship should be immune to a weapon system designed to be fired at it > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Is why they’re not used in Null Right and every ship has to be used in null because? > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Or - dare i say it - adapt your play style and fleet comps to earn your kills. For someone telling others they need to adapt, you seem to be unwilling to adapt yourself, i mean we can keep this troll thread going all you want but at this point you’ve still not managed to provide a reason why an immobile ship shouldn’t be vulnerable to torpedos > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Really should have paid more attention to your killboard - only 4 months ago you ganked a Porpoise together with 65 bombers. Must have been an epic battle. Relevance being? Oh right you ran out of arguments for your actual topic ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/56 "2021-02-26T14:12:11Z")
> [@Kei\_Hazard](#): > > Compared to Dreads who stands there for 5 minutes, and capitals that once bubbled, will stay there for a decent of time, 30 seconds bastion model and a ship that could fit heavy nuet + MWD/MJD do have better chance of survive. Noone uses Dreads for null sec ratting either. 30 sec or 5 min makes no difference at all if everything is full of cloaky campers. Youre right, Marauders can be much more surviveable and deal a lot of punishment but all that gets countered simply by a hand full of 2mil SP bomber alts. Im not interested in making it “safe” to be in null sec but to have more interesting dynamics on the battle field. A way to specifically counter Torpedos and keep Cynos at some distance would make it viable to ratt in a cloaky camped system and force blops hunters to risk something if they want to engage. ---
**Author:** ![Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zuccini_Vaselini)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/57 "2021-02-26T14:41:49Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > Light drones, statisis webifiers, stasis webification drones, take your pick, all things a bomber can’t deal with lol, you ARE an f1 monkey Just warp somewhere else when you get targeted. If, for some absurd reason, you are in web range will only make it easyer for you to warp off. I don’t feel sorry for your loss if you chose to simply sit there and die. Git gut or git out. > [@Cypherous](#): > > they can’t point you outside of 20km anyway They don’t need to if Bastion is active and without Bastion there won’t be enough EHP to cycle the MJD. Maybe you should bring a tanky BLOPS for tackle, or at least an Arazu? Maybe try to be more then an F1 monkey with a green Killboard? > [@Cypherous](#): > > You not choosing to bring something to handle them loooool mimimi cap umbrella, mimimi cynos, mimimimi grr goons And now you expect me to somehow within 10 seconds “respond” to your blops drop. How about my Marauder can tank you while i have cap to run my Smart Bomb, so i can get my combat alts and corp mates to warp? Guess thats exactly what a pretentious little gank bear would want to avoid, huh? > [@Cypherous](#): > > and every ship has to be used in null because Rise literally said it was their goal to make Marauders viable. Is there any reason not to do that other then your fear of counter play to F1 monkey blopsing? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/58 "2021-02-26T14:52:52Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/2/c/02c5b973a36aa66ff6ea755d3a41ca1edc741319.jpeg) He pretty much killed himself quite a while ago, but now he’s saying he’d break fleet if he got targetted. Lol no wonder he krabs while the war is on. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/59 "2021-02-26T14:53:48Z")
Thats a whole lot of text for “I don’t want to have to work for my ISK” But by all means keep complaining, i’m starting to enjoy watching this if i’m honest 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336/60 "2021-02-26T15:30:11Z")
> [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Rise literally said it was their goal to make Marauders viable. ‘_Viable_’ doesn’t mean what you think it does in this context. You seem under the impression that this ‘viable’ ship must be a good choice in _your specific circumstances_. That’s like assuming a hammer, being a viable tool, must be able to tighten screws in the wall. And there you are, hammering screws in the wall and complaining how CCP hasn’t made your hammer viable. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/marauders-not-quite-enough/297336.md?page=4)