# Market Changes for the Rest of Us? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 10, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003 "2020-03-10T17:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/1 "2020-03-10T17:12:22Z")
I’m not a trader. Mostly I buy “immediate” and when I do sell something on the market I put it up with a price for 90 days and eventually it sells. From that perspective these changes seem like a non-event? Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/2 "2020-03-10T17:18:57Z")
Its basically removed the Market PvP equivalent of Venture popping or level 2 missions Oh and for some reason they added new level 2 missions. Wierd ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/3 "2020-03-10T17:28:17Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Its basically removed the Market PvP equivalent of Venture popping or level 2 missions > > Oh and for some reason they added new level 2 missions. Maybe they want 0.01ISKers to try level 2 missions? ---
**Author:** ![James\_Dragonrider](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_dragonrider/32/191453_2.png) [@James\_Dragonrider](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Dragonrider)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/4 "2020-03-10T17:53:30Z")
Don’t worry: Venture popping will be back in full swing from March 12th to April 14th. Maybe they need the ISK to pay for their taxes on the 15th? 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/5 "2020-03-10T18:02:21Z")
CCP is located in Iceland, not the States, so a joke about taxes on the 15th doesn’t even apply to them. In addition, they don’t use in game isk as currency out of game, so your joke falls both ways. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Dragonrider](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_dragonrider/32/191453_2.png) [@James\_Dragonrider](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Dragonrider)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/6 "2020-03-10T18:07:21Z")
You got the joke, right? So it didn’t fail. Only your sense of humor failed. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Radical\_Posture](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/radical_posture/32/276404_2.png) [@Radical\_Posture](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Radical_Posture)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/7 "2020-03-10T19:45:14Z")
It will cost you more to modify the orders that it will cost to buy the item. ---
**Author:** ![Ricar\_Audeles](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ricar_audeles/32/260142_2.png) [@Ricar\_Audeles](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ricar_Audeles)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/8 "2020-03-10T20:12:10Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > I’m not a trader. Mostly I buy “immediate” and when I do sell something on the market I put it up with a price for 90 days and eventually it sells. > > From that perspective these changes seem like a non-event? Did I miss something? Under the previous system, the spreads (difference between buy and sell orders) approached the transaction costs of the trader, plus a reasonable profit margin. Typically a 10% spread in trade hubs. Under the new system, the transaction costs are a lot higher and the trader can no longer predict what they will be since they depend on how many times an order needs to be changed before it fills. You can expect big spreads. You will sell for less and pay more when you buy. The liquidity will be much lower. Once an order fills, the next order may have a much higher/lower price and you will be stuck with it since traders will be slow to place new orders and update existing orders. If you do use orders to buy/sell, expect them to fill much more slowly, if at all. ---
**Author:** ![Joia\_Crenca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/joia_crenca/32/291897_2.png) [@Joia\_Crenca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Joia_Crenca)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/9 "2020-03-10T20:38:38Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > CCP is located in Iceland, not the States, so a joke about taxes on the 15th doesn’t even apply to them. In addition, they don’t use in game isk as currency out of game, so your joke falls both ways. Someone needs to level up their trajectory analysis for jokes, as a shot went over a head. 🎯 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Joia\_Crenca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/joia_crenca/32/291897_2.png) [@Joia\_Crenca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Joia_Crenca)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/10 "2020-03-10T20:41:33Z")
> [@Ricar\_Audeles](#): > > You can expect big spreads. You will sell for less and pay more when you buy. The liquidity will be much lower. Once an order fills, the next order may have a much higher/lower price and you will be stuck with it since traders will be slow to place new orders and update existing orders. If you do use orders to buy/sell, expect them to fill much more slowly, if at all. Basically this. Once you put in an order, it may get .01 isked by another order of 1, then another order of 1, and so forth. Your item or buy order may be stuck for the full duration unless you pay the high price of adjusting the order. I can barely imagine trying to build something high-end after today. The market was HIGHLY facilitative of that until now. ---
**Author:** ![Thorian\_Baalnorn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thorian_baalnorn/32/187492_2.png) [@Thorian\_Baalnorn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thorian_Baalnorn)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/12 "2020-03-11T07:50:43Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Oh and for some reason they added new level 2 missions. The 4 people that still run missions were very excited about the new missions i hear. If they wanted more people to run missions they could just make LP worth collecting by removing all the other stupid requirements you have to pay in addition to LP . ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/13 "2020-03-11T08:14:46Z")
> [@Ricar\_Audeles](#): > > Typically a 10% spread in trade hubs. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/f/5/af5a6f8b9fe62ff1510f77f23c1d6a7754a8a4e5.jpeg "J Jonah Jameson Laughing - Spider-Man 2 (Bluray version)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6M1OF_E0IA) Let’s say BO is 100 isk. Broker fee are 3% so you actually pay 103 is for the item. then you sell at 110 isk : 3% broker fee, 2.5% tax → 110\*0.955 = 105.5 real value . =\> gain 2.5/110 = 2.27% margin. bleh. Many items I was in, was more like 50% - 100% spread. A few one were lower, because people actually put correct BO, so it was like 10%, but once the people who needed them had their BO completed, the market went back to \>50% market. > [@Ricar\_Audeles](#): > > If you do use orders to buy/sell, expect them to fill much more slowly, if at all. So you’re saying people stopped purchasing from direct orders ? But why ? > [@Thorian\_Baalnorn](#): > > If they wanted more people to run missions they could just make LP worth collecting by removing all the other stupid requirements you have to pay in addition to LP . It’s stupid because you can’t handle it ? Too bad. It adds complexity to the game. If you don’t like ti, don’t work for corporation that provide them ? Not like you **had** to use those specific offers. So your argument is just completely stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/14 "2020-03-11T08:18:43Z")
> [@Thorian\_Baalnorn](#): > > removing all the other stupid requirements you have to pay in addition to LP . Yeah remove isk lol ---
**Author:** ![Ricar\_Audeles](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ricar_audeles/32/260142_2.png) [@Ricar\_Audeles](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ricar_Audeles)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 8:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/15 "2020-03-11T08:36:19Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Let’s say BO is 100 isk. Broker fee are 3% so you actually pay 103 is for the item. > then you sell at 110 isk : 3% broker fee, 2.5% tax → 110\*0.955 = 105.5 real value . > =\> gain 2.5/110 = 2.27% margin. > > bleh. > > Many items I was in, was more like 50% - 100% spread. A few one were lower, because people actually put correct BO, so it was like 10%, but once the people who needed them had their BO completed, the market went back to \>50% market. For sure there are huge spreads. But these will be thinly traded items or outside market hubs. Look at high volume items like paste, minerals, etc. You will see that the spreads are near the minimum transaction cost that a player can have with max skills and max rep. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > So you’re saying people stopped purchasing from direct orders ? But why ? No one will stop buying entirely, but they will do less buying because it’s more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 8:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/16 "2020-03-11T08:42:09Z")
> [@Ricar\_Audeles](#): > > But these will be thinly traded items or outside market hubs. Look at high volume items like paste, minerals, etc. You will see that the spreads are near the minimum transaction cost that a player can have with max skills and max rep. Of course if you only look at items with a tiny spread, all items have a tiny spread. The thing is, when you buy stuff eg in Jita to make a build, the prices for T1 were more around +20% around average, which means over 20% margin. T2 was … very weird, sometimes positive, sometimes +100% . Basically there was no consistency. But “typical 10%” is … come on… lol. The items I sell are above … 50% ? Dunno, but my margin is always above 20%. With a lot of conservative (eg I add a 5% broker fee to the items I bought, even when I bought them from SO - I consider I have 0 standing with the faction, I take a much higher hauling price than it really costs, I artificially increase the cost of the renting of the structure, etc.) > [@Ricar\_Audeles](#): > > No one will stop buying entirely, but they will do less buying because it’s more expensive. It’s not more expensive. The price of producing stuff did not change. And if people stop producing and selling, other people (like me) will take that as an opportunity to make money. ---
**Author:** ![Thorian\_Baalnorn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thorian_baalnorn/32/187492_2.png) [@Thorian\_Baalnorn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thorian_Baalnorn)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/17 "2020-03-11T14:26:52Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > It’s stupid because you can’t handle it ? Too bad. > It adds complexity to the game. > > If you don’t like ti, don’t work for corporation that provide them ? Not like you **had** to use those specific offers. > So your argument is just completely stupid. Are you ever not bitter? Or do you just troll threads all day getting more and more bitter because you have to live in your moms basement? Also you might want to learn what sarcasm is and how to spot it. A lot of things in the world might make more sense to you and you might not be so bitter all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/19 "2020-03-11T14:34:30Z")
> [@Ricar\_Audeles](#): > > the transaction costs are a lot higher and the trader can no longer predict what they will be BS! Just sell stuff in range of 95 to 105% of avg and its fine. When I read that some people complain that they can’t do 100-300% anymore, I like the way it was changed! ---
**Author:** ![James\_Dragonrider](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_dragonrider/32/191453_2.png) [@James\_Dragonrider](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Dragonrider)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/20 "2020-03-11T14:41:30Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Of course if you only look at items with a tiny spread, all items have a tiny spread If you look at high traffic items, the items that get traded a lot. The reason they have tiny spreads is because they are liquid. The reason the spread is around 10% is because that’s what’s left after you apply the fees. In other words: the “raw” supply and demand may stay the same, but the traders will do less trading if it is higher risk and lower rewards. An entire component of the liquidity of the most popular items will vanish. This will also translate into some items simply not being as available. Or not available at all when you need it. For example: the less common loot drops that are “needed” for your fit. Those who loot them want to sell them quickly, or just tear them down for the minerals that will sell quickly. But anyone who doesn’t think that increasing the cost of making trades doesn’t affect the rate things get traded doesn’t understand the basics of economics: The supply and demand curves intersect where the demand is willing to pay the price that the supply is willing to provide it. If you increase the cost to either buy or sell: you widen the gap between the price the supplier gets, and the buyer pays. This shifts the curve to a lower volume. Lower volume means less liquidity in the market. Less liquidity means higher risk to middle buyers that provide liquidity. Stop mocking people for telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Dragonrider](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_dragonrider/32/191453_2.png) [@James\_Dragonrider](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Dragonrider)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/21 "2020-03-11T14:45:45Z")
> [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](#): > > I like the way it was changed! Then you don’t understand the change, or you don’t understand economics. The change is to reduce liquidity, and it hurts the markets. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003/22 "2020-03-11T14:55:04Z")
If I was a kulak, Id think of a way to monetise tears. As it is, I approve of them being provided for free for The People to enjoy. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/market-changes-for-the-rest-of-us/225003.md?page=2)