# Mass cloaky camper **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [August 30, 2017, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775 "2017-08-30T08:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/202 "2017-09-04T13:02:02Z")
I rather like Putin, it’s the defence minister that scares me… ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/203 "2017-09-04T13:02:28Z")
![putin_seriously](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/8/988c753a3da1234defd4f58840e2a8be10eb9722.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/204 "2017-09-04T15:04:29Z")
> [@Linus\_Gorp](#): > > What argument? All you post in illogical non-sense, proving that you don’t understand what you argue about. The only illogical nonsense is the ■■■■ you lot post pretending it’s a real detriment to you to go and camp a system. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/205 "2017-09-04T15:28:56Z")
This reads like your biggest issue is income? ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/206 "2017-09-04T15:42:50Z")
> [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](#): > > The only illogical nonsense is the ■■■■ you lot post pretending it’s a real detriment to you to go and camp a system. ![12215635](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/c/7c6df09c96d356f32bdbcbb20004076d38354f09.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/207 "2017-09-04T15:52:11Z")
You still have nothing original to say I see. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/208 "2017-09-04T16:00:52Z")
I’m not one for illiterate non-sense discussions, sorry. Call me once you’ve got an education. ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/209 "2017-09-04T16:05:17Z")
> [@Linus\_Gorp](#): > > I’m not one for illiterate non-sense discussions, sorry. Call me once you’ve got an education. Quite the opposite, nonsense is exactly what you are into. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/210 "2017-09-04T16:06:29Z")
> **[Dunning–Kruger effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect)** > > In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence. As described by soci... Unlike Teckos, I won’t waste my time trying to educate the illiterate. ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/211 "2017-09-04T16:09:29Z")
You guys keep circlejerking over AFK cloaking opportunity cost then lmfao. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/212 "2017-09-04T16:12:25Z")
“You guys”? It was you and Teckos doing that, not “us”. Then you came along with “this is my last response hurr durr” and since then you’ve posted how many more replies in here? 10? ![putin3](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/7/57e3b65e57b81f3dc540bb17ece8d52f47d51e6e.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/213 "2017-09-04T16:21:00Z")
It was me and Teckos, and then you jumped on his ■■■■, so yes you guys. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/214 "2017-09-04T16:22:24Z")
Where did I jump into that? I didn’t discuss anything about economics or opportunity costs. I merely pointed out how illiterate you are. ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/215 "2017-09-04T16:30:10Z")
Well why the ■■■■ would you say anything unless you disagreed with what I said about opportunity cost. Dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jameson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jameson/32/12581_2.png) [@Markus\_Jameson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jameson)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/216 "2017-09-04T16:31:56Z")
Not really… I can already sub using a fully skilled alpha in hi sec with maybe an hour or four a day spread over two or three weeks depending on luck when I want to. So I feel I’m already there (on the income front) after a fashion. But I’m now converting to passive PI (etc) income, skills I couldn’t train until I subbed so just starting with them. There are reasons for the choices… the original one was about not **_having_** to bend the knee for ISK earning potential **if** I didn’t want to… so from there I went about exploring the options in hi sec… I’ve found them far better than advertised in the forums to date, but I expected that, after all… it’s a very popular “_recruiting meme_” that you can’t make any money at all in hi sec 😉 I’m perhaps being a bit slow & “methodical” (?) about how I’m going about it for some, but it floats my boat 😊 so they can get stuffed 😜 EDIT: This is all very much off topic for this thread though… how do we start a private conversation in here? ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/217 "2017-09-04T16:35:10Z")
You’re obviously not a very smart person, despite you thinking that you are. Teckos tried to explain to you why you’re wrong, but you’re just too illiterate to get it. Watching him trying to spoon-feed you things you won’t ever understand was just so tiring that I decided to get some decent troll value out of you. Of course you didn’t even notice that you’re nothing but a toy. If you want to have a literate discussion, then might I suggest you start with getting those basic-level educations in economics and logic you’re missing? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/218 "2017-09-04T17:07:58Z")
> [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](#): > > …and to that I say, “who cares?”, because the reality is nobody who AFK cloaks loses anything, it doesn’t take long to fly to a system, and the account was not being used beforehand. Other than the benefits they could have gotten by not AFK cloaky camping. Other than that you are totally right…for a very wrong reason. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/219 "2017-09-04T17:32:03Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Other than the benefits they could have gotten by not AFK cloaky camping. Other than that you are totally right…for a very wrong reason. > > 🙄 Well the cloaker could’ve been trading instead and made 100’s of billions, but do you think that’s a realistic value to place on the cost of AFK cloaking? Of course not. So how do you come up with a realistic cost? You look at what those players tend to use the cloaking accounts for when they are not cloaking, how much are they earning from active input? That active input is as close to realistic as you are going to get for the cost, as passive income can be done at 100% efficiency while AFK cloaking. The cost of the account also does not matter because the account has not been made for the purposes of AFK cloaking, so that falls under the cost of setting up a skillfarm or whatever, which we are not discussing here. So for a pilot with a bunch of skillfarms, he has no lost income, all he loses is the time it takes for him to travel, which is why the cost is negligible, which is why your argument is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/220 "2017-09-04T17:33:29Z")
> [@Markus\_Jameson](#): > > Sounds interesting. > > Wouldn’t mind seeing those if they’re not too incomprehensible for an uneducated layman… but is it clear from the data the “payment” isn’t just deferred? Well, it is something that I just started thinking about. But there is some work on coevolutionary algorithms involving games where participants work at creating a “champion” who will then go out and compete against other such champions. The results indicate, so far, that these algorithms out perform other algorithms when averaged over fitness landscapes. Up to this point evolutionary algorithms worked not better than any other algorithms when averaged across fitness landscapes…which implied that no algorithm is, in general, better than random search. That is algorithms work well when they are tailored to a specific landscape. In regards to a market process, which is in my view is similar to an evolutionary process, the process of innovation could be seen as a “champion” that multiple actors work towards which then go out and compete with each other. In this regard there could be a “free lunch”. I got the idea when listening to a podcast. In the podcast the guest was discussing Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs and how their ideas and the market process work differently than the political process. In the political process things are often determined by Median Joe or Median Jane (i.e. the median voter theorem by Duncan Black). But with the market process it works quite differently, people are allowed to try out “crazy ideas” and as a result we get lots of trial and error. And even though people do not have to support the crazy idea initially. But for those crazy ideas that do turn out to be good ones those of us who did not initially support it can still benefit from them…a type of free riding, but unlike free riding for public goods there is not under-provision. ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/221 "2017-09-04T17:59:22Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > There’s a channel for that. Last time i’ve checked, the price per request was five million isk. **Locates Are Us** or **Locates R Us** i forget. One is good the other isn’t. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775.md?page=12)