# Mass cloaky camper **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [August 30, 2017, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775 "2017-08-30T08:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/81 "2017-08-31T19:02:15Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Does not matter if they use their mains or alts. Either way there is opportunity cost. Well it does because if you are using an alt that does nothing anyway then its doesn’t cost you anything to park it apart from 10-20 minutes of time, so the reality is it’s basically free. You are trying to pretend that this opportunity cost creates a real cost, which it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Buggs\_LeRoach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buggs_leroach/32/376676_2.png) [@Buggs\_LeRoach](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buggs_LeRoach)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/82 "2017-08-31T19:10:59Z")
bottom line : it’s 25 paid accounts , doing whatever the owner(s) want . however they’re paid , whether cash or in-game , is irrelevant . so is calling them sp farmers , or debating opportunity cost . what you haven’t mentioned , is what you’re trying to do , that the cloaky camper is preventing … so sorry your bot won’t run , with a neutral in local . botting is bad anyway ok … ---
**Author:** ![Wolfe\_Loderun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wolfe_loderun/32/29653_2.png) [@Wolfe\_Loderun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wolfe_Loderun)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/83 "2017-08-31T19:11:45Z")
> [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](#): > > Well it does because if you are using an alt that does nothing anyway then its doesn’t cost you anything to park it apart from 10-20 minutes of time, so the reality is it’s basically free. You are trying to pretend that this opportunity cost creates a real cost, which it doesn’t. The person managing parked alts (logging in, occasionally monitoring local activity, etc.) is losing potential gain of using that time for other activities. This is the definition of opportunity cost. I wouldn’t manage 25 cloaky alts because I would rather spend my time creating gain from other activities, but then _my_ opportunity cost would be not having 25 cloaky alts providing critical intel ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/84 "2017-08-31T19:31:35Z")
> [@Wolfe\_Loderun](#): > > The person managing parked alts (logging in, occasionally monitoring local activity, etc.) is losing potential gain of using that time for other activities. This is the definition of opportunity cost. I wouldn’t manage 25 cloaky alts because I would rather spend my time creating gain from other activities, but then my opportunity cost would be not having 25 cloaky alts providing critical intel You’re being unrealistic, a sure sign that you don’t have a strong argument. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfe\_Loderun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wolfe_loderun/32/29653_2.png) [@Wolfe\_Loderun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wolfe_Loderun)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/85 "2017-08-31T19:42:56Z")
> [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](#): > > You’re being unrealistic, a sure sign that you don’t have a strong argument. Face-palm. Well that was a failed attempt at sharing knowledge with the bottom of the barrel today. ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/86 "2017-08-31T19:47:00Z")
> [@Wolfe\_Loderun](#): > > Face-palm. Well that was a failed attempt at sharing knowledge with the bottom of the barrel today. The number 25 is irrelevant, for 1 account, it takes 20 minutes at most to go and camp a system. The counter play to that is players spending hours to make sure the cloaker is not a threat, or gathering multiple pilots to deal with it. That is not fair. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfe\_Loderun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wolfe_loderun/32/29653_2.png) [@Wolfe\_Loderun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wolfe_Loderun)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/87 "2017-08-31T20:00:54Z")
> [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](#): > > The number 25 is irrelevant, for 1 account, it takes 20 minutes at most to go and camp a system. The counter play to that is players spending hours to make sure the cloaker is not a threat, or gathering multiple pilots to deal with it. That is not fair. I was just trying to help clarify the discussion on opportunity cost, in which Teckos is spot on. Idgaf about the actual issue of cloaky campers in local, especially if it’s just one character. WH dwellers probably run sites all the time with other chars cloaked in system, they just never know it. Not every character in local is out to get you, unless it’s me. ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/88 "2017-08-31T20:03:55Z")
> [@Wolfe\_Loderun](#): > > I was just trying to help clarify the discussion on opportunity cost, in which Teckos is spot on. Idgaf about the actual issue of cloaky campers in local, especially if it’s just one character. WH dwellers probably run sites all the time with other chars cloaked in system, they just never know it. Not every character in local is out to get you, unless it’s me. They also have access to much higher ISk income so they are not comparible. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/89 "2017-08-31T20:06:39Z")
he’s definitely the highlight of this thread, and he offers a lot to learn from. though his excessive use of the word “nonsense” makes me wonder if he couldn’t have used words with lower opportunity cost. 😊 i’ll see myself out. 😁 PS: thanks, Teckos. Great posts, with lots of interesting insights. 🙂 and thank you both, because it takes two to keep this up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/90 "2017-08-31T20:39:21Z")
Trying to make friends does not strengthen your position. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfe\_Loderun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wolfe_loderun/32/29653_2.png) [@Wolfe\_Loderun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wolfe_Loderun)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/91 "2017-08-31T21:01:21Z")
I think someone needs a little pokey pokey. I heard you Caldarians enjoy the forbidden Gallentean men, or women, whichever your preference. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/92 "2017-08-31T22:52:22Z")
> [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](#): > > They also have access to much higher ISk income so they are not comparible. Also irrelevant from the stand point of opportunity cost. ---
**Author:** ![Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caitlynn_askyra/32/460247_2.png) [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caitlynn_Askyra)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/93 "2017-08-31T23:24:18Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Also irrelevant from the stand point of opportunity cost. Doesnt matter because opportunity cost isnt relevant in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/94 "2017-09-01T06:26:19Z")
> [@Kaleesh](#): > > some people who can not read propper Mate, learn to write before you attack someone’s ability to read. Using 25 alts to cloaky camp is the same as using 25 alts to camp you into a station or mine a rock. If you can be bothered to organize it and it doesn’t use command broadcasting or cloning software then it’s allowed. As has been pointed out, there are ways to deal with this issue without asking CCP to change it for you. Why haven’t you baited him out to see if he’s watching yet? ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/95 "2017-09-01T11:58:50Z")
> [@Wolfe\_Loderun](#): > > If you think there are game-breaking mechanics you should take it up quietly with CCP, because any notion of changing the coveted sandbox will bring empyrean wrath down on you from every direction. The devs would just laugh at him and then tell him to HTFU. > [@William\_Ormono](#): > > It sounds like CCP is working to address cloaky camping with the Observatory Arrays they will be releasing in the future. So there should be a light at the end of the tunnel. Not really, no. The farmbears won’t ever stop crying. They’ll stop crying about AFK cloaking the moment it’s no longer relevant, but then they’ll just cry about the next best thing that’s interrupting them from 24/7 farming in perfect safety. ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Gorp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/linus_gorp/32/317333_2.png) [@Linus\_Gorp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Linus_Gorp)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/96 "2017-09-01T12:03:07Z")
Amusing how this thread degenerated very quickly into the classical pro afk cloaker crowd that’s using well-reasoned arguments and the anti afk cloaker crowd that’s pretty much just spouting ■■■■■■■■, insults, illogical nonsense and outright lies that a 10 year old would see as such. But hey, you totally aren’t crybabies, right? It’s all on the big, bad afk cloakers ruining the game by doing… What are they even doing when afk? Having fun outside, I guess, while you guys write angry forum posts about how your virtual safe spaces are violated in a game that’s all about doing exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Ptraci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ptraci/32/18349_2.png) [@Ptraci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ptraci)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/97 "2017-09-01T12:32:09Z")
This post needs more crayons and coloring books. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/98 "2017-09-01T13:41:55Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > If I opt for working, the the opportunity cost is the day trading option. EXACTLY! Neither is the opportunty cost of investing your million dollars. AFK play in eve (like loaning someone money) is an activity that requires no capacity. The opportunity cost for AFK camping is NOT active play… just like the opportunity cost for making a loan is not active work or daytrading. One requires time input from the player/worker… the other does not. The opportunity cost for giving someone a loan is other ways you could use that income WITHOUT using your capacity. The opportunity cost for AFK activity… is OTHER AFK ACTIVITIES. You are simply not correctly identifying the opportunity cost of AFK play. Using the account to play activity is (in your terms) an “irrelevant alternative”… because you have to actively play for it to be an alternative. That is the same as saying using the million dollars to day-trade is an “irrelevant alternative” for loaning the million dollars to someone else. The reason they are irrelevant… is one uses capacity and the other doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lena\_Crews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lena_crews/32/161576_2.png) [@Lena\_Crews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lena_Crews)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/99 "2017-09-01T13:48:36Z")
> [@Wolfe\_Loderun](#): > > > [@Caitlynn\_Askyra](#): > > > > Well it does because if you are using an alt that does nothing anyway then its doesn’t cost you anything to park it apart from 10-20 minutes of time, so the reality is it’s basically free. You are trying to pretend that this opportunity cost creates a real cost, which it doesn’t. > > The person managing parked alts (logging in, occasionally monitoring local activity, etc.) is losing potential gain of using that time for other activities. This is the definition of opportunity cost. I wouldn’t manage 25 cloaky alts because I would rather spend my time creating gain from other activities, but then _my_ opportunity cost would be not having 25 cloaky alts providing critical intel Again… capacity factors into this. It is not humanly possible to actively play beyond a certain number of alts. The number I could actively play might be smaller or larger than yours… but we each have a finite amount of time and a finite amount of ability to play accounts simultaneously. Once we max out our active play capacity… any other usage must be AFK… something that requires no input once logged in. The opportunity cost for the player isn’t what other things he could use that character for… because he’s already doing that activity… on one of his other toons. It’s the same activity if he’s ratting on Toon A or Toon B… the PLAYER is ratting. If his capacity is maxed… any new ratting he did with one toon would mean not ratting with another. So the “rat with the camping toon” is not an unrealized alternative that incurs opportunity cost. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775/100 "2017-09-01T13:48:57Z")
ah, nevermind, page didn’t update on time. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mass-cloaky-camper/20775.md?page=6)