# Militia corruption: Breaking the Deafening Silence on Dirty Deals **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [October 17, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136 "2019-10-17T16:48:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicoletta_mithra/32/378065_2.png) [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicoletta_Mithra)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/185 "2019-10-20T17:34:51Z")
Well, what you say certainly has the potential to escalate or deescalate the situation. And yah, the treaty doesn’t stop them because the CEMWPA allows for what is happening there. Prisoners of war can be taken. Prisoners of war are by CONCORD treaty allowed to be enslaved. Don’t make it sound as if it was _oviously_ in ignorance of any treaty. What’s more probable is that it is in _full awareness_ of those treaties. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/186 "2019-10-20T17:36:10Z")
> [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](#): > > Now, that doesn’t sound like any of you are _simply_ what the Amarr made you to be, right? It sounds more like a complex thing. Where the past trauma is but one factor amongst many. Yes, past trauma is one factor among many. One factor that runs through every other factor, as well. The Empire has shaped the current conditions in the Republic. They have shaped the landscape of the cluster at large, between CONCORD and preventing the Federation’s further expansion. And they have forced the baseline from which we all progress. So yes, we are simply what they have made us, as compared to what we would have been in a world where all of the other factors were the same. ---
**Author:** ![Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicoletta_mithra/32/378065_2.png) [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicoletta_Mithra)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/187 "2019-10-20T17:41:05Z")
Honestly, I think you give the Empire more credit than you should. I’m saying that as proud Amarr. Yes, we are a powerful nation, but not nearly as powerful as you want to make us in oder to shift blame on us. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/188 "2019-10-20T17:45:05Z")
You aren’t doing yourself any favors telling people who are bracing for literal slave raids on their worlds that they are overreacting. Especially not when it is crystal clear that the blame for this particular escalation falls squarely on House Sarum and the Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/189 "2019-10-20T17:47:32Z")
> [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](#): > > Well, what you say certainly has the potential to escalate or deescalate the situation. Because what I say has any effect on house Sarum, no I simply explain what the decision will bring. > [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](#): > > And yah, the treaty doesn’t stop them because the CEMWPA allows for what is happening there. Prisoners of war can be taken. Prisoners of war are by CONCORD treaty allowed to be enslaved. Don’t make it sound as if it was _oviously_ in ignorance of any treaty. What’s more probable is that it is in _full awareness_ of those treaties. So, it’s ok because you found a loop hole. That’s great, it also wasn’t enacted in the past due to what your seeing now. Your justifications don’t exactly support what was essentially a gentleman’s agreement which curtailed these events from being possible. You made your bed, now watch as we stab you in it. ---
**Author:** ![Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicoletta_mithra/32/378065_2.png) [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicoletta_Mithra)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/190 "2019-10-20T17:48:36Z")
I’m not here to curry favour, I’m here to speak the truth of the matter. > [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Your justifications don’t exactly support what was essentially a gentleman’s agreement which curtailed these events from being possible. You made your bed, now watch as we stab you in it. Well, I never said that it being legal justifies the actions. I’m just pointing out that one can’t say that they are not justified, because they are illegal. The latter is an argument resting on a shaky, if not false premise. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/191 "2019-10-20T17:50:27Z")
Oh, well, an Amarrian is here to speak the _truth_. Pack it up folks, we’ve clearly been outmatched. ---
**Author:** ![Arsia\_Elkin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arsia_elkin/32/388703_2.png) [@Arsia\_Elkin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arsia_Elkin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/192 "2019-10-20T17:53:53Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > To be fair, it’s not like I’m exactly reveling in this. I never accused you or anyone else of doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/193 "2019-10-20T18:00:23Z")
> [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](#): > > Honestly, I think you give the Empire more credit than you should. And you fail to see how one of the two largest cosmopolitical entities has shaped the space it has interacted with for the last thousand years. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicoletta_mithra/32/378065_2.png) [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicoletta_Mithra)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/194 "2019-10-20T18:11:52Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > You made your bed, now watch as we stab you in it. That’s exactly the logic escalation follows: Two players following a strategy that can be summed up like this. > [@Arrendis](#): > > And you fail to see how one of the two largest cosmopolitical entities has shaped the space it has interacted with for the last thousand years. 😛 I really fail to see that: “The Empire has shaped the current conditions in the Republic.” - Full stop. What I noticed was that ‘the Empire is one amongst many other factors, (most prominent of which is the Republics government and administration, with relations of the Repubic to the Federation certainly being a more important factor as well, as are several others,) that have shaped the current conditions in the Republic.’ ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/195 "2019-10-20T18:25:50Z")
> [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](#): > > ‘the Empire is one amongst many other factors, (most prominent of which is the Republics government and administration, with relations of the Repubic to the Federation certainly being a more important factor as well, as are several others,) that have shaped the current conditions in the Republic.’ Let’s unpack this! The Empire is one amongst many other factors… - The Republic’s Government - Unpacking… - Comprised of Minmatar, a people indelibly impacted by their exposure to the Empire. - Established in the wake of Imperial enslavement, largely in reaction to same, as the original government of the Minmatar Empire was destroyed by the Empire. - Established in an absence of any knowledge of the pre-enslavement government of the Minmatar Empire, as all records and knowledge of native national government structure was destroyed by the Empire. - Overhauled and re-organized in direct reaction of perceptions of being infiltrated by Imperial collaborators and an agenda of appeasement toward the Empire. - Conclusion: The Empire definitely contributed to the shape of the Republic’s government and administration, both originally and more certainly, in the Tribal Republic Era. - Relations of the Republic to the Federation - Unpacking… - Federal involvement with the Minmatar people began as efforts to aid enslaved populations. - Minmatar willingness to retain foreign entanglements with the Federation are a direct result of the continued threat of Imperial action. - Conclusion: The Empire has directly impacted the state of relations between the Republic and the Federation—not in the least by causing the _existence_ of the Republic, as opposed to the Minmatar Empire that existed pre-enslavement. Wanna keep going? ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/196 "2019-10-20T18:30:09Z")
Well, at least there’s that, feelings mutual. It’s simply a matter of following orders, whether the orders are beneficial on either side is another story. ---
**Author:** ![Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicoletta_mithra/32/378065_2.png) [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicoletta_Mithra)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/197 "2019-10-20T18:38:04Z")
The question is not _whether_ the Empire contributed to the conditions in the Republic: The question is to _which extent_ it influenced the conditions in the Republic, and of _what kind_ that influence was. You are exaggerating the quantity and are misrepresenting the quality. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/198 "2019-10-20T18:46:14Z")
You are either blindingly ignorant or willfully ignoring the past 1000 years of history if you actually believe that. Because standardized capsuleer programs tend to require that the candidate be of a minimum intelligence, I am going to assume the second. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/199 "2019-10-20T18:47:41Z")
> [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](#): > > You are exaggerating the quantity and are misrepresenting the quality. Yes, because _completely obliterating Minmatar society_ was such a _minor_ thing. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/200 "2019-10-20T18:51:25Z")
I’m gonna have to agree with Arrendis 100% on this one. Which if anyone read the earlier parts of this thread, that should say something. ---
**Author:** ![Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicoletta_mithra/32/378065_2.png) [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicoletta_Mithra)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/201 "2019-10-20T19:55:37Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Yes, because _completely obliterating Minmatar society_ was such a _minor_ thing. Oh yes, you’re right. We Amarr have such an influence on the Republic, we are still pretty much in charge there, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/202 "2019-10-20T20:04:45Z")
Influence exists outside of politics. Edit: I’ll expand on this. The Amarr Empire’s greatest influence on the Minmatar Tribes/People/Republic/Noun of choice is, by far, Cultural. Due to the actions of the Empire a thousand years ago (and pretty much every year since), the modern Minmatar are built from the ground up to oppose the Empire on every single level. The Empire doesn’t have to be in _charge_, the Republic’s societal baseline is predicting and reacting to the Empire’s actions. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/203 "2019-10-20T20:08:06Z")
> [@Nicoletta\_Mithra](#): > > We Amarr have such an influence on the Republic, we are still pretty much in charge there, right? I realize this is sarcasm, but yes, in fact, yes, you are. Our nation is more or less built around resistance to yours. The most common call for patriotism is based on “we must stand united or be Reclaimed”. We have been in practice a constant war with the Ammatar Mandate, your vassal state, for over 100 years. Our industry is geared for fast and efficient deployment of pretty ■■■■■■■ anything we happen to need, because we cannot trust things to be stable even when they look peaceful. Ten years ago we had a coup over, _basically_, foreign politics towards the Empire - and it looks like there’s now calls for another one, for pretty much the same ■■■■■■■ reasons. We attacked CONCORD and plunged ourselves into a madness of a war of attrition because you tried to genocide a tribe. There’s countless examples like that. We are _not free_ of your influence, and I do not know how we can ever be. Elsebeth ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/204 "2019-10-20T20:17:42Z")
Look. The truth of the matter is that the Minmatar have never acted like our war was over. We have, but they never returned the favor. Now that we are getting on the same footing as they, everyone seems to be panicking. I had hoped they would be held to the same standards as we have been, but now I hope we will be held to the same standards they have been. A lower one, where we can bleed them by nicks and cuts as well. Perhaps they will remember why they signed the treaty ending the Rebellion in the first place when their nose is as bloody as ours. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136.md?page=11)