# Minmatar rebellion was a catastrophe **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575 "2017-09-02T22:05:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/182 "2017-10-03T18:43:44Z")
Honestly, Aria, look back over the history of this board and its predecessors. It’s _always_ been more acceptable and encouraged to talk about battles and bloodshed, wars and campaigns, to hold up this idea that ‘oh, I am a warrior and so totally honorable just ignore that I’m basically the capsuleer equivalent of a kneecapper, hired by organized crime to bust up a union strike’, than it has to wax eloquent about something as simple, natural, and universal as feeling close to another human being and wanting to spend your days as part of their life. That has nothing to do with my emotional state, and whether or not I’m clinging to some ridiculous idealism in the face of overwhelming evidence. It’s just how things are. Being willing to _say_ it isn’t evidence that I’m somehow heartbroken or ‘something has happened’. The idea that openly saying something we all know is true is somehow a sign of _damage_… I think that says far more about the people who’d rather dance around such an issue, and the ones who prefer to wallow and revel in their monstrosity and hypocrisy, than it does about the person shrugging their shoulders and refusing to ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/183 "2017-10-03T18:55:31Z")
But I don’t need persuading of any of that. That’s the world I’ve always lived in. It’s not the factual content of your statements that concern me-- or Pieter, I would guess. But lately, your tone’s shifted, darkened, past where it was before. It’s been the progress of a few months. There’s nothing ridiculous about idealism. Idealism, in the end, is just looking at awful things, and saying, “It shouldn’t be this way.” And trying to change them. … Without idealism, nothing changes. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, or worthy of ridicule. If idealism was really so bad, there’d be fewer idealists. Their continued presence in the species suggests that they serve an important purpose. But I do think it’s a hard thing to be-- not difficult, like “challenging,” but hard. In the end, an idealist is facing a particularly intractable and stubborn kind of enemy: the messy complexity of the world, and its resistance to being changed to solve certain problems without creating as many problems as anyone solves. Some witty person at some point suggested, or maybe just pointed out, that a cynic is just a broken-hearted romantic. … I don’t think you were ever really very cynical, before. But more recently you’ve been saying stuff like how every human being deserves to be shot. So. Yeah. That starts to sound a little more like the real thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jev\_North](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jev_north/32/100533_2.png) [@Jev\_North](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jev_North)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/184 "2017-10-03T18:59:48Z")
And yet we all still have our plugs, don’t we. ---
**Author:** ![Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pieter_tuulinen/32/155371_2.png) [@Pieter\_Tuulinen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pieter_Tuulinen)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/185 "2017-10-03T19:02:42Z")
Agency is a hard thing to discard - and despite the boot on all our throats, we have more agency as capsuleers. \ ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/186 "2017-10-03T19:04:05Z")
You can’t expect things to change if you don’t call them out, Aria. You can’t fix a problem without acknowledging it’s there. Humanity’s a plague, a rancid rotting lump of cancer upon the universe, and it all deserves to be excised and incinerated… but that doesn’t mean it can’t get better, can’t learn to maybe, just maybe, rise above the nigh-irredeemable morass that it is. It just means that being all happy fluffy fedo-farts about it is living in denial. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/187 "2017-10-03T19:07:13Z")
Yeah, see, that still really sounds like an idealist (“You can and should do better!”) and incipient cynic (“But almost certainly won’t”). Which seems like a really painful place to be. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/188 "2017-10-03T19:08:12Z")
Same place I’ve always been. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/189 "2017-10-03T19:13:12Z")
Now it’s you I’d invite to look back, Arrendis. This is not where you’ve always been. Miz noticed it, months ago, when she warned you you were growing darker. I noticed it, too. She and I agreeing is kind of one of those things. Make of it what you like, Arrendis, but sounding like someone who’s about one bad night away from running off to join either Sansha Kuvakei or the EoM is something a little new for you. It’s not a good change, I don’t think-- not because you’re wrong necessarily, but because it seems as though what you’re coming to understand of this world is making you miserable. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/190 "2017-10-03T19:27:23Z")
It’s where I’ve always been. Expecting anything less than the worst possible outcome means not preparing for all eventualities. And Kuvakei and the EoM can, as the Gallente say, _lèche moi où je merde_. You don’t improve things by making people into mindless drones, and you don’t improve things by giving up everything. Just because I’m not sugar-coating my position doesn’t mean it’s changed. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/191 "2017-10-03T19:37:01Z")
Well, then, like I said: … 'Kay. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/192 "2017-10-03T19:49:30Z")
I love you, Arrendis. Like a person I once knew in school kind of way. ---
**Author:** ![Jason\_Galente](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jason_galente/32/383984_2.png) [@Jason\_Galente](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jason_Galente)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/193 "2017-10-03T20:12:19Z")
You know what they say, behind every cynic is a heartbroken idealist. Arrendis, let’s chat some time. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/194 "2017-10-03T21:02:22Z")
> [@Jason\_Galente](#): > > You know what they say, behind every cynic is a heartbroken idealist. Or a realist wrongly labeled ---
**Author:** ![Tamiroth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tamiroth/32/277869_2.png) [@Tamiroth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tamiroth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/195 "2017-10-03T21:02:45Z")
Minmatar rebellion wasn’t a “catastrophe”. Minmatar rebellion was, on a grander scale of things, predetermined, and, while there surely were enough signs for the wise ones to predict it, those in power were blind, so it happened. The sin of pride. The hubris. That’s why it happened. Look at Nauplius the Butcher or at the deeds of a former chamberlain (who’s struck from the Book of Records) for the examples. That’s why it happened. God punished us for our sins, for our evil, and the tribes were merely a tool in His hands. The Minmatar Rebellion wasn’t a catastrophe; it was a lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/504852_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 5:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/196 "2017-10-04T05:54:29Z")
A crucial lesson that the Amarr have yet to learn; namely that no person, culture or civilization is inherently superior to another and with some sort of manifest destiny to rule the universe. That fact should have been the take away from the Rebellion. ---
**Author:** ![Elmund\_Egivand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elmund_egivand/32/11038_2.png) [@Elmund\_Egivand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elmund_Egivand)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/197 "2017-10-04T06:48:16Z")
And that no matter how much one dresses it up with pretty words and how much one justifies the act, putting the boot into someone’s neck is still putting the boot into someone’s neck. Sooner or later, the guy under the boot is going to start stabbing the foot, the shin, the knee and everything upwards from there. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/198 "2017-10-04T09:35:48Z")
> [@Tamiroth](#): > > Minmatar rebellion wasn’t a “catastrophe”. Minmatar rebellion was, on a grander scale of things, predetermined, and, while there surely were enough signs for the wise ones to predict it, those in power were blind, so it happened. > > The sin of pride. The hubris. That’s why it happened. > > Look at Nauplius the Butcher or at the deeds of a former chamberlain (who’s struck from the Book of Records) for the examples. That’s why it happened. > > God punished us for our sins, for our evil, and the tribes were merely a tool in His hands. > > The Minmatar Rebellion wasn’t a catastrophe; it was a lesson. Volcanoes do erupt, and some eruptions can be predicted, and definitely all of them were predetermined. It is not wise to build on a slope of a volcano, but still - many people live there, live in a vicinity of a danger that can strike them, that can burst now, this year, or next millenia… And still, the consequences of the eruption will be catastrophic. Well, I did blame a Volcano, and I admit, I was wrong - it was caused by that little annoying hydrogen sulfide geyser that erupted in IGS and disgusted me to write such… emotional article about the Volcano. But blaming Volcano in eruption does nothing - it just erupts and that’s it. Blaming people, who will build on its slope and will be sweeped by lava and pyroclastic flows doesn’t hold merit either. I think the real problem is what we have at hand, is to find a solution to close this Volcano once and forever or somehow… isolate it. Or at least somehow close these geysers so we won’t be smelling hydrogen sulfide eruptions again. ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/199 "2017-10-04T10:03:08Z")
I’m going to send you some more chocolate, sweetie. ---
**Author:** ![Jason\_Galente](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jason_galente/32/383984_2.png) [@Jason\_Galente](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jason_Galente)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 10:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/200 "2017-10-04T10:06:02Z")
I mean… there are definitely inferior cultures. There are communities of cannibals that throw poop at outsiders. The Minmatar just weren’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Jason\_Galente](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jason_galente/32/383984_2.png) [@Jason\_Galente](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jason_Galente)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575/201 "2017-10-04T10:07:09Z")
I don’t think you understand Matari psychology, sweetheart. Comparing them to a force of nature is just going to inflate their ego and make them proud. Especially Brutors. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/minmatar-rebellion-was-a-catastrophe/21575.md?page=11)