# Monthly Economic Report - December 2020 **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** mer, official, devblog\ **Created:** [January 20, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031 "2021-01-20T12:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/21 "2021-01-20T23:10:06Z")
> [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](#): > > The other day I talked about Star Citizen population growth graphs. They showed a giant increase in new players and they all started playing when EVE started attacking its played with the ORE redistribution. The uptick started shortly after CCP destroyed player fun inside of EVE. You mean this graph, from their website? ![scgrowth copy](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/f/af5d4b44d8cc15c356880c2df7be311e2fc57431.jpeg) Yup. You definitely see upticks in late 2019 there. Though… you see the same upticks basically _every_ winter. So let’s look for some correlation with EVE, since you insist it’s linked… ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/3/e3fd28576e728d1d912e5d700f7037552dc52bfb.png) This is the same 5 years of EVE Online. Now, it’s not exactly clear, but let’s scale it to fit the other chart… ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/9/59ad84e2ee7be20391c7adad763f45fead71ba68.jpeg) As you can see, those massive jumps in SC’s player numbers? They don’t correlate to EVE’s numbers _at all_. What you’re seeing is more related to ‘everyone’s staying inside looking for things to do through 2020’ than anything CCP’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![Clenis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/clenis/32/416296_2.png) [@Clenis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Clenis)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/22 "2021-01-20T23:18:58Z")
hey look. you guys recreated the great depression ---
**Author:** ![Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tursiops_truncatus/32/232426_2.png) [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tursiops_Truncatus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 12:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/23 "2021-01-21T00:28:03Z")
Im not sure what you are seeing but I see a big drop at the end of 2020 for EVE and big rise in SC. Even the players online data has dropped below that 36k average line. Eve n in the last graph when you overlapped them you can see that the number of new players to join SC jump about the time the ORE Redistribution was forced on us and it blows EVE online player count out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tursiops_truncatus/32/232426_2.png) [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tursiops_Truncatus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/24 "2021-01-21T00:39:48Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Yeah, so all the players that assert that CCP is just trying to get people to buy plex, are not only puting forth a conspiracy theory with no evidence, and ignoring all the evidence of unsustainable economic activity, but they also let everyone know what caliber of player they are. I mean, I’ve made more money this past year during resource scarcity than I have in my previous 4 years of playing. Maybe if you spent more time chasing new strats and opportunities, and less time complaining, you’d be able afford something more expensive and classy than that tin foil hat you got on. Wheres your fact that says that plex sales didn’t sky rocket after the ORE redistribution and scarcity? You may think its a conspiracy but many on these forums feel that CCP did these changes to drive up plex sales. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 12:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/25 "2021-01-21T00:51:17Z")
> [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](#): > > Wheres your fact that says that plex sales didn’t sky rocket after the ORE redistribution and scarcity? You may think its a conspiracy but many on these forums feel that CCP did these changes to drive up plex sales. Are you kidding me? You’re making the claim. Thus, it’s up to you to prove it, not demand that others disprove it. Moreover, even if plex sales did go up, that still wouldn’t prove that that’s why CCP made the changes. Oh, and many believe the earth is flat. So, saying, 'but many people believe it," is a pretty weak argument. ---
**Author:** ![Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tursiops_truncatus/32/232426_2.png) [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tursiops_Truncatus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 1:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/26 "2021-01-21T01:00:03Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Are you kidding me? You’re making the claim. Thus, it’s up to you to prove it, not demand that others disprove it. Moreover, even if plex sales did go up, that still wouldn’t prove that that’s why CCP made the changes. > > Oh, and many believe the earth is flat. So, saying, 'but many people believe it," is a pretty weak argument. You can’t prove its not true anymore than I can prove it is true. The fact that people think this way is because of CCP actions, not mine. So if you don’t like people thinking this way, than you best tell CCP to prove it wrong. Right now, public perception of EVE is absolutely terrible. Just look at the pissed of people on this forums over what CCP is doing. CCP made this conspiracy fly so put the blame where it belongs. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 1:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/27 "2021-01-21T01:25:05Z")
> [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](#): > > Im not sure what you are seeing but I see a big drop at the end of 2020 for EVE and big rise in SC. I’m seeing a short-term dip of 10k PCU in EVE Online, and an increase of 300k+ ‘active players’ in Star Citizen. So are you saying that every EVE player who stopped logging in… and then _came back_… accounted for _30_ Star Citizen accounts for each of their EVE accounts? You also said it was: > [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](#): > > when EVE started attacking its played with the ORE redistribution. The uptick started shortly after CCP destroyed player fun inside of EVE. Except that started in March, and March 2020-April 2020 shows a 500k _drop_ in Star Citizen active players. When the September round hits, numbers stay dead until October… you know, when the increasing pandemic numbers in the US pushed more people back to ‘stay inside, jackass’ mode. Meanwhile, EVE’s numbers Sept through November… stay steady. All of which means… those SC numbers _aren’t_ coming from EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tursiops_truncatus/32/232426_2.png) [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tursiops_Truncatus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 1:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/28 "2021-01-21T01:37:13Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Except that started in March, and March 2020-April 2020 shows a 500k _drop_ in Star Citizen active players. When the September round hits, numbers stay dead until October… you know, when the increasing pandemic numbers in the US pushed more people back to ‘stay inside, jackass’ mode. Meanwhile, EVE’s numbers Sept through November… stay steady. > > All of which means… those SC numbers _aren’t_ coming from EVE. Are you talking active online players or new players to the game? I am talking about new players to the game. Your first chart looks familiar and I think that might be the chart I am talking about. It was data for new player joining SC not active players online. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 2:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/29 "2021-01-21T02:20:06Z")
Okay, so this > [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](#): > > Wheres your fact that says that plex sales didn’t sky rocket after the ORE redistribution and scarcity? and this > [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](#): > > You can’t prove its not true anymore than I can prove it is true. are logical fallacies. But, I somehow doubt I’m going to get anywhere with this, so moving on… ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/7/1718e38613150ae2d907566e63e5811b972b3e83.png) Now, you are unhappy with the changes that resource scarcity has brought. That’s understandable. After all, CCP makes changes that I don’t like as well. However, spreading baseless conspiracy theories doesn’t help anything. They are not going to convince CCP to make the changes that you desire, and they exacerbate bitter vet syndrome in the people who are prone to believing such conspiracy theories. I mean, many players will try make the best of a “bad situation,” if they believe it’s for the good of the game. However, most players, myself included, would get pissed and quit if we believed the devs were intentionally making the game worse in order to increase profitability. So, if you are intentionally trying to sabotage the game, then keep on doing what you’re doing. If, however, this is not your intent, allow me to make a few suggestions. First, view change as opportunity, and try to explore new strats and opportunities. Not only can this help you find ways to make more money, but it can also help you to grow as a player and have more fun. Second, if you have given a particular change a fair shake, and still believe that it is bad for the game, try to make arguments that actually explain why that change doesn’t work. Tell us how it negatively impacts you and your play style. Tell us how you tried to adapt to the change, and why that didn’t work. If you manage to make a compelling arguments, you will start getting people on your side and possibly even be able to convince CCP to address your concerns. I can’t promise that you’ll be successful, but CCP has demonstrated that are willing to listen to player feedback. So, perhaps you should try to provide some feedback that they might actually listen to. In the meantime, try to hang tight. I know that this situation isn’t ideal for a lot of people, but CCP did say that resource scarcity is temporary. So, things should get better with time. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/30 "2021-01-21T03:54:56Z")
> [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](#): > > Your first chart looks familiar and I think that might be the chart I am talking about. It was data for new player joining SC not active players online. Nope. That’s [active players](https://mmo-population.com/r/starcitizen/stats). As for ‘new players to the game’… considering SC’s up at 12.5 _million_ subscribers (they say), EVE’s players shouldn’t even cause a blip on their radar. Especially considering how many of us have tried the game before, so wouldn’t show up as ‘new players’. ---
**Author:** ![tyea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyea/32/251420_2.png) [@tyea](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tyea)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/31 "2021-01-21T03:57:51Z")
hmmm lets see here blackout did nothing but piss off all the miners in null sec. production went down then also players quit over it . lets see oh then this new resource crap . rorqual pilots that loved flying there rorquals that mined down in null. getting the industral sigs up and thats not easy to keep at 5 all gone busting our butts to do that . lets see what else oh rorquals are no use any longer so all the skilling i did to get that up to master 5 on many toons gone . lets see what else oh yea now i have to fight with pirates to mine the ore i need in low sec wow lots to complain about atm what has ccp done for the miners/indy ppl of the game. NOTHING AT ALL BUT SCREW US LIKE ALWAYS . now with all that said . im in high sec doing pi and mining crap ore cant build crap and im a capitol builder . do you know how long it took me to skill up 12 toons to build capitol ships . long damn time does ccp give a crap no am i still playing the game yes . came back after a year to see there still screwing the miners and indy ppl like always hmm. anything good come out of this for miners and indy players as far as i can tell NOTHING!!! SO do we have a right to be mad a ccp as far as mining and indy hell yea i do i spent alot of time and money on this game to be screwed but . am i hopeful that ccp will come to there players aid and make the game better for the ppl that make the ships and mods ammo and all for the pvp players im hopful will it happen anytime soon more than likely not. so ccp please stop screwing miners and indy ppl . ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/32 "2021-01-21T04:14:12Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > It‘s a shame but as expected, people move to risk free ISK generation outside of New Eden with instanced gameplay. I‘m talking about red loot from Abyss which injects 40T ISK into the game. More than twice as bounties. That’s why I kept posting [this old dev blog](https://www.eveonline.com/article/those-anomaly-changes-in-full) over and over again here (and a few times on reddit). Because we’ve been through this before, CCP thinks they can change anomalies/ratting and “spur conflict” and get people to move around and make null alliances less stable and so forth. That recent DEV blog about anomalie changes had a similar list of “expected consequences” as that 2011 one. I was so disappointed that CCP demonstrated that they didn’t learn from the past. In 2011 when they nerfed anoms, we went and did incursions and lvl 5 missions. The thing is, those things had some limits. Only so many incursions, only so much you could sell LP for. NOW there is the trig/abyss stuff, AND Burner Missions. At least in null, the ratting ships can be killed without CONCORD showing up. I know CCP lost a lot of DEVs since 2011, but damn, did no one keep notes about anything? Like a friendly “hey new DEV bro/sis, just so you know, if you nerf one part of space these guys just go to another and do the same thing” kind of note? I’m thinking no. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/33 "2021-01-21T04:14:25Z")
Okay, so things are pretty crappy for miners right now, but CCP is indeed trying to fix the problem. You see, the root of all this was that they overbuffed the rorqual, which lead to falling mineral prices, falling mining incomes, and capital proliferation. So, CCP had to do something. Unfortunately, a lot of individuals and groups have built up some truly astounding stockpiles of minerals. So, nerfing the rorqual wasn’t enough. They also had to introduce resource scarcity in order to force the big guys to burn through those massive stockpiles. So, yeah, I sympathize with miners. And yes, CCP did mess up. However, they are actually trying to fix the problem, and they have made it clear that resource scarcity is temporary. So, try to hang in there. Adapt the best you can to the current situation, and maybe explore some of the other content this game has to offer. Things will get better. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvia\_Kildare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sylvia_kildare/32/416948_2.png) [@Sylvia\_Kildare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sylvia_Kildare)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 4:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/34 "2021-01-21T04:17:47Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Bounty income lower than Incursion income. > > Commodities really need a breakdown now that this does not only include trade goods and WH blue loot but also Abyss red loot. Bounties down due to ESS or DBS or just due to all the supercaps being busy with PVP instead of PVE? Time will tell. But yes, that’s a very striking graph there. And hear hear to the breakdown of commodities. ---
**Author:** ![Kira\_Hhallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kira_hhallas/32/401600_2.png) [@Kira\_Hhallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kira_Hhallas)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/35 "2021-01-21T07:20:06Z")
December 2021 ? November 2021 ? CCP Joins the Gypsy Business ? ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/36 "2021-01-21T07:46:52Z")
They still have not fixed the Rorqual so that it cannot be abused again once CCP puts more ores back into the system. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/37 "2021-01-21T09:01:22Z")
Why do people who insulate from other players care how many people are online? ---
**Author:** ![Pith\_Hurdaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pith_hurdaa/32/198748_2.png) [@Pith\_Hurdaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pith_Hurdaa)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 9:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/38 "2021-01-21T09:31:44Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > They still have not fixed the Rorqual so that it cannot be abused again once CCP puts more ores back into the system. I don´t know what problem has the rorq exactly… It has been already nerfed many times. Nowadays a rorqual mines 2x what a max bonused hulk does, while costing x20 times more, and being a sitting duck ripe for hunting. Yea, it has some defensive and offensive capabilities, but well its TWENTY times the cost of a hulk and at least 4x times to skill to. How is that unbalanced? A supercarrier costs 10x times more than a carrier and in exchange gets x4 or x5 bounties, and without a siege module, for an instance. ---
**Author:** ![Hlamon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hlamon/32/241936_2.png) [@Hlamon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hlamon)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/39 "2021-01-21T09:35:57Z")
Just check 0.0 miner fleets. A lot of them consist of nothing except Rorquals. Cost difference don’t matter in long run, but efficiency matters a lot. Even if Rorq will be 10% more efficient - we still will see Rorq only fleets. ---
**Author:** ![Pith\_Hurdaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pith_hurdaa/32/198748_2.png) [@Pith\_Hurdaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pith_Hurdaa)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031/40 "2021-01-21T09:52:38Z")
Just as people uses carriers instead of battleships and supers instead of carriers when allowed? There is always a best ship for everything. You can even ban the rorq if you want, then the best ship for minign will be the hulk. See mining fleets in null; everything is hulks, so lets nerf hulks too? And then what? Creating a Standard Mining Ship TM and banning everything else? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-december-2020/291031.md?page=3)