# Monthly Economic Report - February 2020 **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** mer, official, devblog\ **Created:** [March 25, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761 "2020-03-25T14:41:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 3:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/21 "2020-03-26T03:06:33Z")
> [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > Belt mining in null No one belt mines in null. ---
**Author:** ![Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ysonoko_lelexandrian/32/188953_2.png) [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ysonoko_Lelexandrian)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/22 "2020-03-26T03:30:28Z")
Not right now. If they remove all basic ores from moon like that article said, people will be though. Moon ores don’t carry the materials found in abc/spod ores. Unless they are changing that about moon ores too. Like I was saying. The lack of information about exactly how the moon changes and ore distribution will be have made it difficult to project where the future of mining is. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/23 "2020-03-26T03:31:20Z")
> [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > people will be though No, they won’t. Nullsec belts have so little ore they’re not even worth the Heavy Water for a single Indy Core cycle. At worst, they’ll just go back to mining in the Ore Anomalies. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 3:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/24 "2020-03-26T03:39:08Z")
> [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > I was sad when I saw the missions and agent time rewards ratio for isk faucets. Are the bounties in null really that stupidly over tuned, or are there just thousands of bots farming rats every day? The bounties in null are just easier to grind than high security space missions. > [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > Those npc bounties in null dwarf everything, including mining, by a huge margin. Mining sucks in ISK/hr for most areas and has for a long time. > [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > Why is CCP looking at destroying moon mining, instead of adjusting mission rewards and bounty payouts? Its not the bounties that are the problem, its that massive super fleets with nothing to do pretty much print ISK. > [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > Belt mining in null will always be wildly more profitable than highsec belt mining. More profitable, yes. More profitable than any other profession? No. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > No one belt mines in null. People without other options belt mine in null. > [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > The lack of information about exactly how the moon changes and ore distribution will be have made it difficult to project where the future of mining is. Its future was bleak yesterday, its bleak today and it’ll still be bleak for all eternity because the market is just a race to the bottom. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Nullsec belts have so little ore they’re not even worth the Heavy Water for a single Indy Core cycle. At worst, they’ll just go back to mining in the Ore Anomalies. That’s probably the point. > [@Tater-nuts](#): > > Will there be a separate column for the new relist fee in the March report? I hope so, that would be quite useful to see. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/25 "2020-03-26T03:42:39Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > People without other options belt mine in null. Then those people aren’t relevant to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/26 "2020-03-26T06:03:16Z")
Hah. Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 6:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/27 "2020-03-26T06:19:45Z")
> [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > Are the bounties in null really that stupidly over tuned, or are there just thousands of bots farming rats every day? Bounties in null are higher than in highsec/lowsec, yes. The rats are also a bit more amped up. And there definitely _are_ thousands of players[1] farming rats every day. > [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > Why is CCP looking at destroying moon mining, instead of adjusting mission rewards and bounty payouts? They have adjusted bounty payouts in the past. As for missioning… hah. Missioning in null is a pittance. Even if it weren’t, go look through threats in the past where they’ve just _talked_ about trying to work on the mission system. The sheer volume of outraged cacophony from HS players is staggering. And it happens every time[2]. > [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > Speaking of moons and mining, when are we going to see the updates to moon mining and ore distribution? > > [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > everyone is just going to be in belts Bwahahahahahahahahahahahah. Belts. That’s funny. > [@Ysonoko\_Lelexandrian](#): > > Not right now. If they remove all basic ores from moon like that article said, people will be though. Still wouldn’t be in belts. We’ll just cycle the amazingly-reduced anoms faster, and move around more. It’s not like we actually mine _ore_ on moons now, you know? Goo, baby, goo. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > its that massive super fleets with nothing to do pretty much print ISK. More like massive super fleets that nobody can afford to lose (because they’re too necessary for deterring someone else’s super fleet from attacking). * * * 1. Are there bots? Anyone who’d claim there aren’t is an idiot, and I am not an idiot. If you find someone doing something you believe is botting, **please** , report them to CCP. Let CCP investigate it. They have the tools to do that, and what’s more, they actually get _paid_ to do that. But there are definitely thousands of actual non-bot players out there ratting every day, too. Bots don’t get on comms to call for help. Bots don’t bungle getting on comms to call for help so badly that the defenders’ biggest regret is ‘we didn’t get to kill you ourselves’. And that happens every damned day, more times than I care to count. 2. I’m not at all surprised they didn’t tell anyone in advance that they had a small number of brand new missions going in. People would have demanded the new missions be **exactly** like their favorite mission, only, you know, different. But not different enough to be different. And then they’d have started yelling at one another about which missions the new ones should duplicate, because for every ‘I love this mission’, there’s people out there that hate _that_ specific mission, and will yell and kick and scream about it on the forums every time it’s brought up. ---
**Author:** ![JuuR\_Zibaoo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/juur_zibaoo/32/375053_2.png) [@JuuR\_Zibaoo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JuuR_Zibaoo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 7:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/28 "2020-03-26T07:18:09Z")
@Arrendis see … nothing really happens … JuuR ---
**Author:** ![Jonas\_Skypilot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonas_skypilot/32/269181_2.png) [@Jonas\_Skypilot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonas_Skypilot)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/29 "2020-03-26T08:29:34Z")
Quite Fun to see all the Mimimimi about Frat ratting like crazy in Oasa 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![chez1962](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chez1962/32/480660_2.png) [@chez1962](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/chez1962)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/30 "2020-03-26T10:29:55Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Nullsec belts have so little ore they’re not even worth the Heavy Water for a single Indy Core cycle. At worst, they’ll just go back to mining in the Ore Anomalies. You dont need Rorq’s in the belt , dont forget all the barges we used in the old days of mining before the Rorq. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/31 "2020-03-26T13:50:58Z")
No, but you _do_ need rorqs if you don’t want to instantly explode to the 200-man bomber fleets. The ecosystem has changed. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/32 "2020-03-26T14:52:51Z")
Limit of 25 ships per covert cyno, as per filaments? Maybe CCP could release a Covert Cyno Jammer citadel structure, even at $100 million a day it would be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/33 "2020-03-26T15:00:08Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Limit of 25 ships per covert cyno, as per filaments? Why would that matter? First thing you bridge to the covert cyno… is more covert cynos. 1 dedicated blops for the covert/nullified T3Cs, half a dozen more for the dps. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Maybe CCP could release a Covert Cyno Jammer citadel structure Ok, so now you’ve got every system where people mine in null running one of those, and the whalers crying again just like they do over every other change that lets people defend themselves even a little bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/34 "2020-03-26T15:33:05Z")
Knowing it’s like discussing things with the ocean, could you link some examples of this? I have found that the most vocal of the critics arguing against any change in the mission system are the same secondary,tertiary, and even more distant toons of null sec players upset that their speed running of the same missions for LP/isk might be disrupted by having to actually fit an omni tank or have an unknown variable thrown into a set mission. While I agree that there are some vocal opponents to any change in the set in stone mission system, there are far more players looking for changes in both mission and exploration sites; changes which are carefully thought out, spread out, and minor enough that incremental tweaks can be added to adjust to fair/good/quality gameplay. You would be upset if a bunch of HS players advised CCP on what should be done in NS or WHs and rightly so. Let CCP use their long touted data mining ability to actually ask those players who mainly do specific areas or tasks what they are looking for instead of listening to just the loudest? Remember this has nothing to do with FOBs,RW,Abyssals,Invasions, NPC mining fleets, or conduit changes; changes that actually were never asked for or addressed what many players were looking for (despite CCP and the CSM arguing that was EXACTLY what we were asking for). Anyway, I wanted to voice my concern and dismay that you felt that mission could never change because you felt that too many people wanted things to remain the same. Perhaps in another year or so, any demand for newer missions/sites/variables will no longer be there as the number of players continue to dwindle. Sorry to see anyone leave; we as a community and game are stronger with retaining long term players. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/35 "2020-03-26T16:54:33Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > Knowing it’s like discussing things with the ocean, could you link some examples of this? Dude, you’ve _been_ in those threads… but when I have some time later, I’ll go looking for the discussions Jin’taan or Brisc facetanked since the new forums came out. > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > While I agree that there are some vocal opponents to any change in the set in stone mission system, there are far more players looking for changes in both mission and exploration sites; changes which are carefully thought out, spread out, and minor enough that incremental tweaks can be added to adjust to fair/good/quality gameplay. There are absolutely more people who want changes than oppose them. Unfortunately, the majority of the highsec pilots who want changes in general don’t engage on these forums. And a fair chunk of those who do want ‘change’… but tend to object to suggested changes for one reason or another. So the feedback CCP sees… is negative. ☹ > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > You would be upset if a bunch of HS players advised CCP on what should be done in NS or WHs and rightly so. I’m generally annoyed that a bunch of lowsec players who haven’t spent more than a few days living in null (with a few exceptions) _do_ make all the decisions about what changes happen in NS. Larrikin’s from Null. Most of the rest of the devs? Lowsec, or they’ve been playing in J-space. Even now, so far as we know most of them are _not_ getting any experience with life in null while they design changes for null. > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > Let CCP use their long touted data mining ability to actually ask those players who mainly do specific areas or tasks what they are looking for instead of listening to just the loudest? I would totally agree with this… but they seem to _not do it_, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Gaius\_Mileghere](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gaius_mileghere/32/258417_2.png) [@Gaius\_Mileghere](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gaius_Mileghere)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/36 "2020-03-26T16:54:46Z")
Hold my teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/37 "2020-03-26T21:38:53Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > First thing you bridge to the covert cyno… is more covert cynos. 1 dedicated blops for the covert/nullified T3Cs, half a dozen more for the dps. Can’t activate a cyno within 250km of another cyno? I can already hear the cries from those focused on capital escalation gameplay cringing. Anything to break up the mechanic of 1 ship being all that is needed to bring in the power of 100’s. The inability for every ship in the game to fit a cyno for the super umbrella to jump is a better balance, no? > [@Arrendis](#): > > Ok, so now you’ve got every system where people mine in null running one of those, and the whalers crying again just like they do over every other change that lets people defend themselves even a little bit more. Whaling in null is about as welcome in the game as infinite war declarations were in high security space. If Whalers want to PvP, maybe they should go through the effort of forming a real fleet and attack infrastructure like citadels or engage in enosis gameplay to blow up iHubs that make colossal ore sites. Its already apparent that forcing miners to mine the belts in null is almost the worst thing you could do to them. Oh, right, that requires actual work… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/38 "2020-03-26T21:51:29Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Anything to break up the mechanic of 1 ship being all that is needed to bring in the power of 100’s. You mean like 1 Covops frigate scanning down a WH to bring in a huge fleet of bombers? > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > The inability for every ship in the game to fit a cyno for the super umbrella to jump is a better balance, no? I have no problem with the cyno changes. I never like interceptor cynos in the first place, and stuck w/Force Recons through the last 6 years. But taking the position of ‘even if you use a reasonable amount of preparation and planning, that shouldn’t count for anything because the other guy didn’t’ is… ridiculous. And that’s what it always seems to come down to. Right now, the landscape is tilted toward defense. Why? Because people have put in the time and effort to figure out how to organize large groups so they can defend themselves. The people who object to that are basically making a claim that that time and effort shouldn’t count for anything, because _they_ don’t want to have to put in a similar amount of time and effort. They think it’s _unfair_ that they should have to do the same amount of work. The hunters who don’t? The ones who don’t mind putting in a reasonable amount of effort? They’re out there, and they’re real good at what they do. It’s just that ‘what they do’ doesn’t always line up with perceptions. They’ll come here ahead of changes to tell CCP ‘this is what will likely happen’. They’ll even suggest ways to mitigate the negative side-effects. But once things go live? They just get on with doing what they do. And ‘what they do’ doesn’t including coming onto the forums to whine. 😉 > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Its already apparent that forcing miners to mine the belts in null is almost the worst thing you could do to them. Nah, it’d just be the most pointless thing you could do. If you want people living out in null, you have to give them reason to do it. Belt-mining is garbage. The belts are crap, and they’re extremely limited crap. It’s like that in HS, too, where the populated areas see the belts mined out within an hour of downtime, every day. But HS is—in theory—lower risk. So if you push people into the belts… well, you’re going to see what you’ve already seen, only more: prices go up on T1 hulls in highsec, because mineral supply dropped. Belt-mining would mean it drops even more. As it is? It _will_ drop even more. So get ready for everything to cost more in Jita, just like it’s already been doing. ---
**Author:** ![spotnag](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spotnag/32/194062_2.png) [@spotnag](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/spotnag)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/39 "2020-03-27T10:10:07Z")
off topic question, not sure where to direct this. Was this made using R or python and matplotlib? Great report. ---
**Author:** ![Rekindle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rekindle/32/382332_2.png) [@Rekindle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rekindle)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761/40 "2020-03-27T17:09:37Z")
Change the whole game because the little guy is hurting the bottom lines too much but Delve is working as intended. lol [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-february-2020/227761.md?page=3)