# Monthly Economic Report - November 2020 **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** mer, official, devblog\ **Created:** [December 17, 2020, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722 "2020-12-17T22:06:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/41 "2020-12-18T19:48:28Z")
[ MalcomReynolds Serenity](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MalcomReynolds_Serenity) !’m one of them. I choose the system with the highest bounty modifier, rather than highest millitary index, in the pocket once the ADMs have been maintained Not everyone has the luxury of multiple systems to rat in without imposing on their neighbors. the mega alliance mentality is why small groups of friends just stop playing ---
**Author:** ![Synil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synil/32/276766_2.png) [@Synil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synil)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/42 "2020-12-18T19:58:31Z")
the impact would have been more important for income generation than low-imput, if CCP really wanted to reduce this gameplay they better rework how isk is generated in NS rather than make it even more tedious/borring ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/43 "2020-12-18T20:02:02Z")
The impact was to reduce low effort gameplay. That was it. Which is why they are now considering re-doing drone mechanics entirely. This is a miniscule job compared to reworking the entire pve system. But still has the desired outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/44 "2020-12-18T20:05:41Z")
> [@Synil](#): > > more important for income generation than low-imput, if CCP really wanted to reduce this gameplay they better rework how isk is generated in NS rather than make it even more tedious/borring It’s possible for CCP to be working on both, but that simply adjusting drone aggression was the easier to implement of the two. This isn’t a mutually exclusive thing where CCP doing one thing would mean they’re not doing the other. ---
**Author:** ![leavwiz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leavwiz/32/235353_2.png) [@leavwiz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/leavwiz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/45 "2020-12-18T20:07:21Z")
Here is the elephant in the room. The old code is hard to work with. The CCP answer is to make it intolerable to play anymore and pray that everyone will gravitate over to the new triglavian based code. I have heard all of the adapt or die crap, but honestly , a lot of players enjoy the gameplay, ships and processes that have invested in for years and dont really want to change much. This isnt about afk ratting or low effort play, this is about years of training, flying, building things that are simply being thrown away in favor of the new model. Perhaps it works for some, but not everyone. ---
**Author:** ![safira\_jomita](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/safira_jomita/32/405219_2.png) [@safira\_jomita](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/safira_jomita)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/46 "2020-12-18T20:26:24Z")
If they are maintained, it will drop soon xD ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/47 "2020-12-18T21:14:47Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > It’s possible for CCP to be working on both, but that simply adjusting drone aggression was the easier to implement of the two. This isn’t a mutually exclusive thing where CCP doing one thing would mean they’re not doing the other. Stop being such a pathetic apologist for CCP’s ham fisted, low hanging fruit solution. Its not like TEST bounties have magically stayed the same because ya’ll don’t fly the same drone boats to PvE in like everyone else does. > [@leavwiz](#): > > Here is the elephant in the room. The old code is hard to work with. Bollocks. CCP changed havens and sanctums to have a chance at spawning a factional capital. People then had to choose to stop doing things like machariel smartbombing, or AFK drone ratting, lest they get blown up on what was originally a pretty regular basis. > [@MalcomReynolds\_Serenity](#): > > No, dynamic bounties do not rely on PvP. they rely on not large scale farming. Not bothering to read the mechanics of the ESS? Ratting makes the modifier go down, destruction makes it go up. Ratting more than 500 million in a system per day was the limit before the DBS would go down, that’s hardly a ‘large scale’ farming operation. People were having to grind frigates in low tier sites just to boost the military ADM up, which is its own nerf to ISK/hr. > [@Flanidia](#): > > And yes, they backed off on MESS changes. Made it more profitable to rat. Not in November and it got added to Low Security space, probably the last place in the game that needed any kind of downward pressure on participation. > [@Synil](#): > > if those data are 100%accurate, congrats CCP it’s waaay better than blackout when farming was completly impossible, now it’s possible, more rewarding and have the same effect on the economy This is sad but true. CCP has made it hard, but not impossible and the reward is not zero. Not surprising since its pretty much mandatory to have a defensible ADM. > [@leavwiz](#): > > Lets get real about the low end instead of touting the high end that doesnt happen in most systems Everyone thinks they will have a %150 system to rat in, all the while grinding away in a %75 system for hours. > [@safira\_jomita](#): > > Something to mine… Nope… all empty . Next pocket… empty… third pocket… empty… And we NOT using rorquals… yeah great idea, just killing people activity in the name of " increasing PvP" witch is not going up. Filaments aren’t helping either, people spawn in an area, see there is nothing in the bank and filament out. I watched a stream yesterday of a guy in a hurricane fleet fillamenting around with a interceptor scout, he got mad when the scout got too far ahead and the hurricane got caught by a flash form gate camp and yes, it was full of filaments. > [@Neo\_Bladedrifter](#): > > So, what is the purpose of Pochven? Another rubbish content after messing with a lot of players both active and returning? No idea, but next time CCP say that something is too hard or takes too much dev time, there is at least something to point to and say “oh really?” with great sarcasm. > [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > I know they are trying the across the board approach (nerfing more than just null ratting), but this 1st MER after some of the changes indicates that it’s not enough. No, it indicated that CCP can’t nerf down beyond the lowest common denominator. People are not going to just and take hit after hit and stick around. Like with blackout, they will disengage and do something else with their time until the storm blows over. ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/48 "2020-12-18T21:26:38Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > This picture is not complete as it doesn’t show the spike up \>10% in red/blue loot ISK faucet → people switch to Abyss running, hence more safe instanced ISK making. Completely as predicted. It happened in 2011 with the original anom change and it’s happening here. CCP can’t nerf pve fast enough to stop it either. The problem (as you point out) is that instead of players having ships in null making isk (which makes them targets for other players to kill thus driving the economy), people switch to other isk making methods that for the most part DO NOT expose the player to (as much) pvp risk. Back in 2011 with that anom change, people just switched to incursions (liek now). But unlike then there are sooooo many more ways to create wealth via pve now than then. The lesson CCP should have learned is that you cannot “design in a vacuum” ie you can’t just nerf one area and not expect people to adapt. I know they are trying the across the board approach (nerfing more than just null ratting), but this 1st MER after some of the changes indicates that it’s not enough. ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/49 "2020-12-18T21:37:55Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Not in November and it got added to Low Security space, probably the last place in the game that needed any kind of downward pressure on participation. Yes, they backed off in December as I said in my OP. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/50 "2020-12-18T21:38:37Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > Yes, they backed off in December as I said in my OP. Adding DBS to a whole new classification of space is not backing off. ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/51 "2020-12-18T21:38:40Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > There are people that are now making more money with the ESS. Seems to me like some players need to try some new strats, instead of getting mad that the can’t keep getting the same result from using old strats. This is the same kind of thinking that happened during the blackout. People said “Adapt or die”. The thing is, people DID adapt, by not playing. That’s an adaptation lol. People are adapting by either not playing or just not playing in null (ie doing PVE elsewhere). That shift is bad because at least in null they had a chance of dying to pvp, and while those chances exist everywhere they happen less often if you get your isk while in a high sec incursion fleet with 10 logi ships on grid with you or while doing the abyss in a ship so cheap it’s not worth ganking… You know why I ‘complain’ about CCPs latest round of changes? 2 reasons: #1. [We’ve seen it before](https://www.eveonline.com/article/those-anomaly-changes-in-full), and seeing it now means CCP hasn’t learned anything. #2 Also like in the past, CCP has been prone to make changes meant to encourage one thing, but the OPPOSITE occurs. - They changes moon goo to make people have conflict, only the have that same change spur null group to join together in a group call OTEC - They created a sov system (Dominion) that was supposed to be filled with “small group objectives” that actually made bigger groups even stronger and completely unattackable. - And as you can see from the 2011 dev blog I linked, they changed anoms trying to spur movement and conflict only to have it spur people to LEAVE the conflict zone for the safety of high sec missions and incursions There are times I want to scream at our CCP bros “hey guys, I know you are trying to improve the game, but maybe you should take note of your own past”. ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/52 "2020-12-18T21:39:48Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Adding DBS to a whole new classification of space is not backing off. How much income comes from low sec ratting again? Thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/53 "2020-12-18T21:40:01Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > No, it indicated that CCP can’t nerf down beyond the lowest common denominator. People are not going to just and take hit after hit and stick around. Like with blackout, they will disengage and do something else with their time until the storm blows over. Slow down. That’s what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/54 "2020-12-18T22:06:30Z")
My solution proposal is simple, remove Abyss from the game and fold content/loot into Povchen without instances. BTW, risk reward ratio is excellent with the recent event. One of the best CCP ever made. ---
**Author:** ![Rekindle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rekindle/32/382332_2.png) [@Rekindle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rekindle)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/55 "2020-12-18T22:23:09Z")
The last Friday before the big Christmas day and CCP could barely muster 30k at peak. but everyone who’s dropping the game are just idiots that need to htfu right? ---
**Author:** ![Hazen\_Koraka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hazen_koraka/32/395218_2.png) [@Hazen\_Koraka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hazen_Koraka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/56 "2020-12-18T22:44:05Z")
Interesting information as always. Please contract me the 1 milllllion gecko in jita please 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MalcomReynolds\_Serenity](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malcomreynolds_serenity/32/385107_2.png) [@MalcomReynolds\_Serenity](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MalcomReynolds_Serenity)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/57 "2020-12-18T23:17:38Z")
My alliance IS a small alliance. ---
**Author:** ![MalcomReynolds\_Serenity](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malcomreynolds_serenity/32/385107_2.png) [@MalcomReynolds\_Serenity](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MalcomReynolds_Serenity)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/58 "2020-12-18T23:21:17Z")
Nope. 500 million isk per day absolutely is farming, and even tolerates some carrier ratting. Nevermind that you can go over that a bit and not hurt the bounties that much. The places with absolute trash dynamic bounties have been grinding out billions of isk per day. Why dont you tell me that this is “not mass farming.” ---
**Author:** ![Orca\_Platypus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/orca_platypus/32/248437_2.png) [@Orca\_Platypus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Orca_Platypus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 1:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/59 "2020-12-19T01:06:08Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > And yes, they backed off on MESS changes. Made it more profitable to rat. Perhaps you missed it since you unsubbed No, didn’t miss it. MESS still has too much stupid tax, even at 135%. It’s not sustainable to rat even at 180% still. While MESS is out there, all CCP can do is to keep buffing bots by increasing DBS, players who aren’t stupid won’t rat under this system. Full impact of MESS stupid tax was not available in october, as it just clipped it. So now we see the full extent of stupid, where, AS PREDICTED, ratting only happens in bot regions. MESS is still there, so ratting won’t be a thing, so is my sub. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722/60 "2020-12-19T08:14:29Z")
Now they would want to slash Inkurshon payouts by half or so. 🤔 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monthly-economic-report-november-2020/285722.md?page=4)