# Monument to Amarrian's "martyr" and elder fleet **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Tags:** event, amarr, minmatar\ **Created:** [November 27, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064 "2017-11-27T21:36:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_golden_serpent/32/79734_2.png) [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Golden_Serpent)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/41 "2017-11-28T16:16:58Z")
Because it’s what is right, any Amarrian can see that, you cannot because you are an infidel and you have not been touched by the Atash Amarr. As of yet. It is always possible to be redeemed, so they say. ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/42 "2017-11-28T16:18:08Z")
You realise I was born True Amarrian? No? I guess you don’t know as much as you think you do. Figures. It’s not what is right, it’s just what people want to think is right because it makes them feel important. Stop being a child. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_golden_serpent/32/79734_2.png) [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Golden_Serpent)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/43 "2017-11-28T16:22:30Z")
I didn’t really care, as I don’t care about geneology only faith. Obviously you are not True Amarrian anymore, clearly and I will;show no deference to you. You are merely an infidel like all of the others. Now your only goal is to not be evil, or you will fall further from the Lord’s light and grace. “To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin” ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/44 "2017-11-28T16:24:14Z")
You’re really very trying aren’t you. Do you have anything original to offer or simply mindless rhetoric? At least read back through the things you present to ensure some manner of coherence. Frothing rabidity doesn’t need to translate into text after all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_golden_serpent/32/79734_2.png) [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Golden_Serpent)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/45 "2017-11-28T16:27:02Z")
You betray and abandon the Lord your God and you call me trying. You are the worst kind of infidel. I have nothing else to say to you. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/46 "2017-11-28T16:27:54Z")
> [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](#): > > I have nothing else to say yes… please, be true… so we can actually work on something tangible… ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/47 "2017-11-28T16:39:51Z")
> [@Halcyon\_Ember](#): > > If he’s truly the lord of the universe, why do they need to be forced to return to his worship? Similarly, how are mere mortals forcing the omnipotent to do anything? Religion thy name is contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/48 "2017-11-28T16:57:06Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > I’m hard pressed to see how I’m not debating fairly. I’m not the one cherry picking only the examples that make one side seem blameless in the relationship between the Amarr and the Minmatar. I merely refocused on the main issue between the Amarr and Minmatar, which was excluded. Excluding it is to trivialize something that shouldn’t be. I referenced the blood raider we happened to have ruling our empire and the illegal slave operations being conducted in the Republic by some Amarrian groups. But I’m cherry picking, apparently. God in Heaven, I can’t write a single post without someone trying to dissect it for the slightest hint of bias, or to declare that something I said/didn’t say means I believe or don’t believe something. The fact is, I do not believe in slavery as it exists right now in the Empire. I do not believe that it lives up to the enlightened process it is supposed to be. So no, I’m not some big bad defender of the institution, “cherry picking” so we look “blameless”. We absolutely have our committed our own share of sins, for which we deserve punishment. Just because a throwaway list of examples didn’t specifically include one you wanted is not some grand political declaration. ---
**Author:** ![Che\_Biko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/che_biko/32/500836_2.png) [@Che\_Biko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Che_Biko)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/49 "2017-11-28T17:57:49Z")
I know I’ll be visiting the monument in Pashanai to remember the worst birthday I’ve had. Perhaps others who took part in the relief effort would like to join me? ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/50 "2017-11-28T18:00:38Z")
> [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > I referenced the blood raider we happened to have ruling our empire and the illegal slave operations being conducted in the Republic by some Amarrian groups. Well, I may have jumped the gun here. I honestly misread the part about raiding as if you were accusing the Minmatar of raiding. I think it’s this implant I got recently, it must be incompatible or something. Some of those dealers in Jita… My apologies Ms Kernher. As for the blood raider, perhaps I’m just not familiar enough with Amarrian. I imagine that any empire under the rule of a blood raider might be in for hard times. I just don’t see what this has to do with the relationship between Amarr and Minmatar. > [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > I can’t write a single post without someone trying to dissect it for the slightest hint of bias, Social media, what ya gunna do? I get the same thing Ms Kernher, we all do. My post you quoted was a response to a similar accusation. > [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > I do not believe in slavery as it exists right now in the Empire Why have it all, that’s the question. (Ugh. Implant just glitched again. I’ll have to get this removed.) > [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > Just because a throwaway list of examples didn’t specifically include one you wanted is not some grand political declaration. It has nothing to do with the throwaway lists not having the issue I want. It’s the list addressing everything but the actual problem. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/51 "2017-11-28T18:50:25Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > I’ll just gracefully leave the thread with this quote I live by and see if any of the stooges can figure out who said it: Ooo, I know the answer to this one. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/52 "2017-11-28T19:26:59Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > Well, I may have jumped the gun here. I honestly misread the part about raiding as if you were accusing the Minmatar of raiding. I think it’s this implant I got recently, it must be incompatible or something. Some of those dealers in Jita… My apologies Ms Kernher. It was my fault for not being clear enough. I can see how it could be taken the opposite way. > [@](#): > > As for the blood raider, perhaps I’m just not familiar enough with Amarrian. I imagine that any empire under the rule of a blood raider might be in for hard times. I just don’t see what this has to do with the relationship between Amarr and Minmatar. Corrupt leaders are always a step backwards for interstellar relations. And hostilities certainly increased during his reign. It’s possible he or his supporters were responsible for Doriam II’s assassination, as well, and Doriam’s death was certainly damaging to Amarr-Minmatar relations. > [@](#): > > Why have it all, that’s the question. A long answer not suitable for this thread. In short, a mix of spiritual development (which requires an unrealistic pure/penitent divide to have validity), resistance to chaos stemming from the clashing of opposing cultures when integrating a conquered people during a formative era (which is no longer avoidable in a modern, connected cluster where conflicting cultural influences cannot be cordoned off), being a safety net for the truly desperate, being a punishment for criminals, and being a source of employment and labor. > [@](#): > > It has nothing to do with the throwaway lists not having the issue I want. It’s the list addressing everything but the actual problem. Well, the point was simply to say that there are more important things to deal with in Amarr-Minmatar relations than local monuments. That point’s been made and I assume isn’t in dispute. And slavery is certainly the core conflict underlying everything else, that is not in dispute either. So, that’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/53 "2017-11-28T19:32:51Z")
I agree that those monuments are “not the main problem” and once again, I’m not against them, but as the most virulent amarr proved it once again, I’m afraid that they become “symbole” saying to the minmatar: you were monsters and we did nothing to deserve this. therefore, I’m afraid it would push minmatars militants to attack the monuments (since it’s a symbole) and push amarrians to even more defend the “we are innocent” cause. From this, there is only one step to see the possible escalation. PS: thanks for the debate, it’s nice to read =j ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/54 "2017-11-28T19:41:00Z")
> [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](#): > > … but as the most virulent amarr proved it once again, I’m afraid that they become “symbole” saying to the minmatar: you were monsters and we did nothing to deserve this. I’m sorry, who proved this? > [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](#): > > therefore, I’m afraid it would push minmatars militants to attack the monuments (since it’s a symbole) and push amarrians to even more defend the “we are innocent” cause. This was already a foregone conclusion, with or without your ill-informed opinion being thrown into the mix. Damn it, I thought I exited this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/55 "2017-11-28T19:43:05Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > I’m sorry, who proved this? the golden serpent for exemple > [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > This was already a foregone conclusion, with or without your ill-informed opinion being thrown into the mix. and? should we not try avoid it? It’s not because something is common that we should accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/56 "2017-11-28T19:45:28Z")
> [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](#): > > I agree that those monuments are “not the main problem” and once again, I’m not against them, but as the most virulent amarr proved it once again, I’m afraid that they become “symbole” saying to the minmatar: you were monsters and we did nothing to deserve this. > > therefore, I’m afraid it would push minmatars militants to attack the monuments (since it’s a symbole) and push amarrians to even more defend the “we are innocent” cause. > > From this, there is only one step to see the possible escalation. > > PS: thanks for the debate, it’s nice to read =j They might, assuming they’re willing to leave the warzone or Amarr undock for long enough to shoot at something with indestructible CONCORD station shielding (as most structures in high security space possess). And then Amarr might shoot back. And then everyone will get over it in a few weeks and go back to what they were doing before. So, no need to worry. Capsuleers have very short attention spans; there’s only so much ‘symbolically shooting at something that doesn’t give a killmail/isk’ that they’ll engage in. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/57 "2017-11-28T19:55:46Z")
I agree with that, but I’m concerned for the non capsuleers actually, did you not notice how much more “active” they are those days? I don’t want to see the empires going openly at war with each other if I can work for peace. ---
**Author:** ![Vollhov\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vollhov_jr/32/510418_2.png) [@Vollhov\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vollhov_Jr)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/58 "2017-11-28T20:32:06Z")
> **[Monuments to Martyrs of the Amarr Empire Near Completion as Station...](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/monuments-to-martyrs-of-the-amarr-empire-near-completion-as-station-renovations-proceed-apace/)** > > Eve Online is the world's largest MMO RPG universe rich in adventure, as player corporations compete in a massively multiplayer online space game. Another attempt by the false Empress to attract attention. Nothing surprising. Сatiz can buy everything. > It is anticipated that the monuments will be moved into position outside the designated memorial stations in Ami, Andrub, Kor-Azor Prime, Nishah and Pashanai in the next week or so. And not a word about Sarum Prime… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Leopardess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_leopardess/32/71864_2.png) [@The\_Leopardess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Leopardess)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/59 "2017-11-28T21:05:25Z")
How dare you even mention her name, heretic. She is the best hope for Amarr’s future, both politically and diplomatically, as well as by the will of the Lord of Amarr. She should be the first and last name on anyone’s lips when discussing Republic and Empire relations. But you want only pointless war to line your pockets. Some of us make our isk in peace! ---
**Author:** ![Vollhov\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vollhov_jr/32/510418_2.png) [@Vollhov\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vollhov_Jr)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064/60 "2017-11-28T21:14:43Z")
Will of God ? Ahahaha The will of her thick purse. Diplomatically ? Poletically ? Do not make me laugh. All her attempts, beginning with the reception of the president of the Federation and ending with the meeting of the leader of the Republic. This spit in the direction of war veterans and victims of the invasion of Elder Fleet. I want to remind you: > In a short statement released by the Empress, she expressed her will for “limitless co-operation between gifted scholars and scientific specialists **_regardless of creed_** , in order that the harrowing situations across the cluster be address swiftly.” It’s just fine. And this tells us the second man after God. 1)God. 2)The Emperor / Empress. 3)Theological Council. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/monument-to-amarrians-martyr-and-elder-fleet/42064.md?page=4)