# More destroyers and battlecruisers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [January 31, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908 "2022-01-31T13:56:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/21 "2022-02-05T13:00:58Z")
And yet there are few tech1 doctrines when it comes to major engagements. Not just null sec either. That’s hi-sec wardec doctrines. Wormhole eviction doctrines. Etc. Sometimes you’re making sure the job is done. Not just doing a weekend roam. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/22 "2022-02-05T13:27:02Z")
Sounds dull and incredibly boring. I guess that’s why I don’t do null sec and go solo. I prefer to think for myself instead of listing to some mouth breathing FC when I should press F1. Each to their own, I guess. But I’m going to have to disagree with you on the whole “there’s little to no doctrine when it comes to frigates” My stint with a FW corp showed quite the contrary. Those people take their frigates very seriously and have more doctrine then one would care to shake a stick at. I like how you conveniently left that group of people out. ---
**Author:** ![random\_rick\_junior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/random_rick_junior/32/300616_2.png) [@random\_rick\_junior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/random_rick_junior)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/23 "2022-02-05T13:54:39Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Why add the ships at all? Why do all that work? because maybe people eventually gets bored with the current ships and quits the game. ---
**Author:** ![random\_rick\_junior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/random_rick_junior/32/300616_2.png) [@random\_rick\_junior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/random_rick_junior)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/24 "2022-02-05T13:55:47Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Solo pvp is overwhelmingly casual pvp. No one’s going to lose a strategic objective. but like 90% of faction war people I see are all using t1 frigates. like a majority of people still use them because not everyone can afford to lose a retribution or comet every time they wanna fight ---
**Author:** ![random\_rick\_junior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/random_rick_junior/32/300616_2.png) [@random\_rick\_junior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/random_rick_junior)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/25 "2022-02-05T14:00:45Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > I like how you conveniently left that group of people out. maybe its because he is just too pro compared to me. anyways I just want some more ships available to alpha players, not even OP ships but just more variety. For example, I am quite sure there isn’t a dedicated amarr drone frigate t1, despite drones being a large part of amarr combat. nor does gallente have a railgun destroyer, despite being the only faction that focuses on using hybrid. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/26 "2022-02-05T14:05:16Z")
The thing about Dachi Yamato, is that he’s an “elite” eve player. Go back and review his posts. You’ll see little subtle slights about “casual” players and that his definition of a “casual” player does not engage in the same content as his nor do they put in the same time. (Weekend roams make you a filthy casual, etc) This puts his advice on a different plane than the others. It’s not very relatable, nor is it helpful. In fact, I’ll bet you 20 isk that he’ll make some comment about how FW isn’t a gameplay style that even uses “real” doctrine. Or some other subtle slight against it. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/27 "2022-02-05T14:14:44Z")
> [@random\_rick\_junior](#): > > he is just too pro compared to me. Nonsense. The thing about EvE being a sandbox game is, there really isn’t “pro” players. Just different kinds of gameplay. Unfortunately some insecure people (or trolls) have to bolster themselves up by making their gameplay style more “pro” than others. It’s pretty common, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/28 "2022-02-05T16:30:19Z")
> [@random\_rick\_junior](#): > > because maybe people eventually gets bored with the current ships and quits the game. Well if **maybe** that happens… Maybe people quit because there aren’t dinosaurs. > [@random\_rick\_junior](#): > > but like 90% of faction war people I see are all using t1 frigates. Nearly half of the frigates you’ll see in faction warfare are faction or tech2. And that’s with people doing casual pvp. When you take a tech1 frig into a fight in faction warfare you have an ~86% chance of loss. People don’t mind, because like i said, it’s casual. Edit- sorry, closer to 75% of the time. > [@Yet another faction warfare reinvent proposal](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/yet-another-faction-warfare-reinvent-proposal/275691/34): > > Allow me to illustrate it in numbers: In a 24 hour period there were 46 fights in Black Rise that could have taken place in a novice site. 45 (98%) of them were solo fights. Of that 45, 18 (40%) were faction frigs winning against non-faction frigs. 11 (24%) were faction frigs winning against other faction frigs. 14 (31%) were non-faction winning against other non-faction frigs. 2 (4%) were non-faction frigs winning against faction frigs. The one non-solo fight was a gang with a faction frig… > [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > The thing about Dachi Yamato, is that he’s an “elite” eve player This is merely an attempt at ad hominem. What we’re talking about has nothing to do with that. This discussion is about using cost as a viable balancing method for ships. To which the answer is overwhelmingly no. The vast majority of the time tech1 ships are used, it’s for casual pvp. Like your solo roams. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/29 "2022-02-05T16:36:36Z")
You seem to think i have a problem with casual pvp. I don’t know why, the vast majority of my pvp is casual and solo. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/30 "2022-02-05T16:53:08Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > In fact, I’ll bet you 20 isk that he’ll make some comment about how FW isn’t a gameplay style that even uses “real” doctrine. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > When you take a tech1 frig into a fight in faction warfare you have an ~86% chance of loss. People don’t mind, because like i said, it’s casual. See, told you. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > This is merely an attempt at ad hominem You yourself, by the nature of what you have said in your own posts have clearly demonstrated that you value yourself and your style of gameplay over others. That’s what “elitist” do. Then you circled back and doubled down that you somehow value solo causal play? Sorry, but I ain’t buying it. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/31 "2022-02-05T17:17:09Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > You yourself, by the nature of what you have said in your own posts have clearly demonstrated that you value yourself and your style of gameplay over others. I don’t know how you think that. You seem to think i see casual as a bad thing. And casual players as beneath me? I don’t know why. I merely acknowledge a difference between between more casual playing and ‘space ships are srs business’. ---
**Author:** ![random\_rick\_junior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/random_rick_junior/32/300616_2.png) [@random\_rick\_junior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/random_rick_junior)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2022, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/32 "2022-02-06T11:23:31Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Maybe people quit because there aren’t dinosaurs. do they quit because of this though? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Nearly half of the frigates you’ll see in faction warfare are faction or tech2. And that’s with people doing casual pvp. but then Tristan is the most popular frigate in faction war though? its the most used. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > When you take a tech1 frig into a fight in faction warfare you have an ~86% chance of loss. People don’t mind, because like i said, it’s casual. > > Edit- sorry, closer to 75% of the time. really? they suck so much? but I thought u can simply outnumber the t2 ships. like although a worm might have 5 times the tank of a merlin, but using the cost of a worm u can buy more than 5 merlins. ---
**Author:** ![random\_rick\_junior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/random_rick_junior/32/300616_2.png) [@random\_rick\_junior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/random_rick_junior)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2022, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/33 "2022-02-06T11:24:25Z")
Wait why are we debating about faction war now? ADD MORE SHIPS PLZ! ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2022, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/34 "2022-02-06T12:45:42Z")
Why? What would they add? What job is needed for more ships? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2022, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/35 "2022-02-06T14:51:43Z")
> [@random\_rick\_junior](#): > > do they quit because of this though? Do they quit because we don’t have e-war dessies? How do you know? **That’s my point!** > [@random\_rick\_junior](#): > > but then Tristan is the most popular frigate in faction war though? its the most used. Even if it is that’s not mutually exclusive with what i said. The Tristan can be the most popular frigate AND nearly half of all frigs can be faction and Tech2. It certainly doesn’t mean that 90% of frigs in FW are tech1. > [@random\_rick\_junior](#): > > really? they suck so much? but I thought u can simply outnumber the t2 ships. like although a worm might have 5 times the tank of a merlin, but using the cost of a worm u can buy more than 5 merlins. The issue here is pilots. I may be able to afford a million merlins, but i can only fly one at once. And the vast majority of fights in FW are 1v1. By all means get your friends together and roam in tech1 frigs. But the nature of acceleration gates means that any opponent you find will see you coming a long way off. That one guy in the worm will see you on dscan and have plenty of time to ask himself ‘_do i fancy taking on a gang of 5_?’ to which he’ll probably say no and go else where. This is another reason why FW pvp is casual. Because it’s almost always consensual. Everyone has to agree to the fight before it can happen. Anyone who doesn’t agree gets plenty of warning and can leave. And there are few strategic objectives worth dying for. > [@random\_rick\_junior](#): > > Wait why are we debating about faction war now? Were not supposed to be. It was a tangent from the _is cost effective balance_? Made worse by someone completely misunderstanding my point. ---
**Author:** ![Suki\_Vokkonen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/suki_vokkonen/32/382402_2.png) [@Suki\_Vokkonen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Suki_Vokkonen)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/36 "2022-02-11T00:47:20Z")
Corax Navy and Talwar Fleet, NOT locked to kinetic or explosive damage bonus would be nice. I don’t recall any ship for the Gallente or Amarr with drone damage bonus limited to thermal and EM drones. ---
**Author:** ![Dior\_Ambraelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dior_ambraelle/32/393685_2.png) [@Dior\_Ambraelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dior_Ambraelle)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/37 "2022-02-11T15:59:41Z")
What I could imagine is a line of T1 or Navy destroyers, that are basically the smaller versions of the ABCs: relatively high speed, low tank and are able to fit 5 medium sized weapons. I guess SOE could have a cov-ops destroyer, just replace the analyzer bonus with something more combat related, like no targeting delay after decloaking. As for battlecruisers, I think the ABCs could get a T2 upgrade as heavy bombers: cov-ops cloak, 6 launcher slots for torpedoes, and the ability to fit 2 or maybe even 4 bomb launchers. Give them 7 high slots total so the fitting choices will be significant. Also, Triglavian ABC. ---
**Author:** ![random\_rick\_junior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/random_rick_junior/32/300616_2.png) [@random\_rick\_junior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/random_rick_junior)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/38 "2022-02-12T02:44:39Z")
> [@Dior\_Ambraelle](#): > > What I could imagine is a line of T1 or Navy destroyers, that are basically the smaller versions of the ABCs: relatively high speed, low tank and are able to fit 5 medium sized weapons. this sounds amazing ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/39 "2022-02-13T00:22:16Z")
> [@Dior\_Ambraelle](#): > > What I could imagine is a line of T1 or Navy destroyers, that are basically the smaller versions of the ABCs: relatively high speed, low tank and are able to fit 5 medium sized weapons. This is exactly what I’m talking about. DPS of 5x medium blasters = 217dps DPS of 8x small blasters = 260dps What you want already exists. It’s called a destroyer. ---
**Author:** ![Dior\_Ambraelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dior_ambraelle/32/393685_2.png) [@Dior\_Ambraelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dior_Ambraelle)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 3:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908/40 "2022-02-13T03:41:27Z")
Should it be 6 weapons then? My intention is to translate whatever relationship there is between ABCs and battleships to these destroyers and cruisers. If one has the right to exist, why not the other? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-destroyers-and-battlecruisers/347908.md?page=3)