# More nerfs? If i return i'll earn less? enticing **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2021, 8:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781 "2021-12-08T08:37:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DragoFire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragofire/32/257926_2.png) [@DragoFire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DragoFire)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/42 "2021-12-08T18:46:16Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > If you go for high yield crystals you destroy your asteroid faster meaning you have to hop asteroid more often which is a total ■■■■■ Only if you’re unlucky and manage to fail the wastage roll every cycle, but most have had at worse so far one in eight failed roll, but still got eight full yield cycles of ore in cargo, and only lose one yield amount of reserve resource of what’s left. So you don’t **destroy** faster, you mine better than before per cycle, and if you don’t waste any bonus resources you’ll need to still stay on grid longer to mine it, which adds chance of more risk of being ganked. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/43 "2021-12-08T18:56:48Z")
So what’s the most waste it’s possible to create with the new mechanics? What’s the gear combination, and how much will it waste in proportion to the mining amount? I’m planning to put some unused characters into belts where players are mining, and target their rocks (or maybe go after moon mining ops). Need to know the most optimal waste combination. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/44 "2021-12-08T19:04:11Z")
> [@Moko\_Musana](#): > > more alts Well there’s the total of your problems. Instead of trying to solve it with “moar accounts”, why not (gasp) interact with other people? Join their group or strike a deal or agreement? “What”, you say, “but that means I have not be afk and will have to talk to people and they’ll have to like me and that is _clearly_ going to be a problem”. It IS an MMO you know. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/45 "2021-12-08T19:14:30Z")
> [@Oshiya](#): > > The mass changes of the barges… These were unneeded and unwanted too. Sometimes changes turn out to have a different effect than we suppose. Assuming they fix the extra-long align times of the couple ships affected, it looked to me like the masses were increased possibly to make bumping miners less effective? I’ve never engaged in that sort of mining so no idea really, that just seemed like the most obvious side-effect of a mass increase to me (other than align times and acceleration). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/46 "2021-12-08T19:16:45Z")
> [@Terminal\_Insanity](#): > > Should i pay money to return to a game that has been made even more grindy? I was wondering when we’d see this thread from you. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duella_cre_vil/32/297348_2.png) [@Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duella_Cre_Vil)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/47 "2021-12-08T19:18:06Z")
Have to say that deep core mining was one of the few things elite dangerous does better. That and interactions with the space police (which were relevant to areas of space and not in its totality ie they had jurisdiction). ---
**Author:** ![Oshiya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oshiya/32/314090_2.png) [@Oshiya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oshiya)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/48 "2021-12-08T19:19:19Z")
No one bumps barges man… Even if so this change would do practically nothing. Also it’s not a couple. It’s every single one. Even the frigates have had their aligns fked up. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/49 "2021-12-08T19:20:37Z")
There are some possible other issues like WH travel, which is an issue for part of my playstyle, although it doesn’t change much. For any normal use mass in and of itself is fairly meaningless, it’s the combo of mass and agility that matters. All the barges and exhumers got decreased align times apart from skiff and proc. CCP going “you want high ehp but you’re not getting it for nothing” which is an understandable balancing pro/con. ---
**Author:** ![Starfall\_Achura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/starfall_achura/32/296182_2.png) [@Starfall\_Achura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Starfall_Achura)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/50 "2021-12-08T19:29:16Z")
And to add insult to injury they took miss from the procurer so in order to have a tank you can’t have a scanner! Now you have no idea how much ore the ‘roid has left! I can just see that happening a few times to a miner. After wasting all the cycle time and getting nothing. If that happened to me I would either not mine or not log in. ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/51 "2021-12-08T20:10:16Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > “What”, you say, “but that means I have not be afk and will have to talk to people and they’ll have to like me and that is _clearly_ going to be a problem”. > > It IS an MMO you know. Talk to me!!! talk to me!! I’m the crabbing whale in a POS and I don’t mine and I don’t haul and I don’t do anything else, I just take ores out of my fleet hangar where others drop them in, and monitor my compression module to stay cycling, so that we can sell our ore in Jita at higher income instead of reproccessing it in our Corp’s Refinery … or even in the POS, and do something useful with it. Wait, I don’t need the POS right? I can do it on grid, because my valued fleet-mates provide me with intel on suspicious activities, so I have enough time to uncrab my whale and get off grid before anything could happen. Or is it rather “talk to me” as in “talk to me in COMs when something needs my attention as I’m otherwise watching netflix”? ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/52 "2021-12-08T20:14:21Z")
> [@Moko\_Musana](#): > > Or is it rather “talk to me” as in “talk to me in COMs when something needs my attention as I’m otherwise watching netflix”? Given the average amount and quality of interaction in the average mining corp, I’d say anything is better than nothing? Seriously though, CCP has very obviously been working against self sufficiency during Scarcity. Partly to battle afk/bot armies, partly because this IS an MMO and partly because it might/will involving trading which means it’s another isk sink due to taxes. I honestly don’t get when some issue arises and the immediate reaction of some carebear is “must make more alts, it’s the only way”. Like actually wtf? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/53 "2021-12-08T21:41:53Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Like actually wtf? Well basically I can only trust my alts (mostly) and they trust me. They also dont ask me to do anything when I cant be bothered. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/54 "2021-12-08T22:59:02Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > I honestly don’t get when some issue arises and the immediate reaction of some carebear is “must make more alts, it’s the only way”. Like actually wtf? Because people can have various log time, ability to connect. People can get away for a year or two. Or have a bad day at work, and come back too tired to even think of playing. Which is fine. but in that case you can’t rely on other people. So you must have alts. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 12:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/55 "2021-12-09T00:22:15Z")
Sure but why can’t people just go “well these are my personal issues, I can’t expect the game to solve that for me”. Personally I can’t deal with large groups, it gets too loud for me and get annoyed too easily. I like Voice etiquette, almost every one else, it seems, is completely fine belching into their microphone while eating crisps and yelling at their gf/wife. Result: I’m at a disadvantage when doing things that work better with large groups. I don’t go around demanding changes so 1-5 players can cut it in PvP in null, because I realise that is silly and self absorbed. Because I’m not a manchild. Also if you’re part of a (mining) corp in null and you can’t find people to interact with, you’re doing it wrong. The problem is of course that people choose to be (semi) afk miners so they either create their own hs corp or they join some group that also full of (semi) afk miners. They created their own problem, through their own choices. If they choose to be in a more active and actual corp that issue doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Landeskog\_Salvo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/landeskog_salvo/32/387471_2.png) [@Landeskog\_Salvo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Landeskog_Salvo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/56 "2021-12-09T00:23:07Z")
This guy right here…100% spot on. ---
**Author:** ![DragoFire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragofire/32/257926_2.png) [@DragoFire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DragoFire)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 12:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/57 "2021-12-09T00:50:12Z")
Use C type crystals for the best possible results you’re looking for ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 12:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/58 "2021-12-09T00:51:24Z")
What’s the actual math though? ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/59 "2021-12-09T01:07:43Z")
Skiff with AII, BII and CII crystals. Note residue chance and total yield. What that actually means in numbers takes more brain effort than I’m willing to put in but CII crystals are pretty much “lol. Nothing for me, nothing for you”. ![Crystals](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/5/5/5554f47a27156e6f66b32f490e5c9fdd42e5c6bb.png) ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/60 "2021-12-09T01:11:35Z")
What does that mean in practice (for the type CII crystals I mean)? That there’s a 93% chance of waste, and when waste is created, it wastes an additional 29 units for every unit you mine? Or am I misinterpreting the multiplier mechanic somehow? ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2021, 1:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781/61 "2021-12-09T01:18:22Z")
the residue volume multiplier is also important. So it means that you mine 216 where there’s a chance of 93% you waste 216x29 more. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/more-nerfs-if-i-return-ill-earn-less-enticing/340781.md?page=4)