# \[MULTO\] A message to the Ammatar Mandate and House Ardishapur **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942 "2019-04-01T19:53:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/41 "2019-04-21T12:53:09Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > You know, in other nations they execute people who aid the enemy in a time of war. It is a high crime called Don’t say it! You’ll summon **IT**! You fool! You poor, poor… Dammit. I knew this would happen. **IT** ’s here now… Anyway, Darkar? No, not so much. Each nation has the degree of due process they employ before making the decision… and it sounds like your ‘suspected’ individuals fell prey to one of the oldest aphorisms in human language: ‘Good enough for government work’. In other words, while you might not recognize it as such… they got the process Ardishapur thought they were due, and were convicted. At this point, it’s likely fair to say that the innocent and the guilty among them have all been exposed to enough of the same level of crap that their original states don’t matter anymore… like Schroedinger’s Justice, in effect: unknowable, and unimpactful. > [@Armast\_Darkar](#): > > Forcing continued service without foreseeable end is simply cruelty. Penal service at least has the theoretical element of justice, but otherwise… this kind of thought covers basically _all_ slavery. I’m not unsympathetic to the plight of falsely-convicted Ammatar, but on some level, I confess, I’m not all that worked up about the descendants of collaborators finding out that their masters treat them just like everyone else: like shite. ---
**Author:** ![Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seraphea_vellastraan/32/297158_2.png) [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seraphea_Vellastraan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/42 "2019-04-21T20:59:36Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I’m not unsympathetic to the plight of falsely-convicted Ammatar, but on some level, I confess, I’m not all that worked up about the descendants of collaborators finding out that their masters treat them just like everyone else: like shite. Not all the Nefantar were collaborators. They only appeared to be. Certainly, after a time, some began to believe the lie–those outside the core conspiracy–fell to the lures of power and wealth that were offered. However, that core remained true to the Tribes, including those Nefantar that hid the Starkmanir, were never collaborators. I realize this might not help Armast and his cause, but it has to be said. The Nefantar suffered a lot, from both the Amarr and the Tribes to protect my Tribe, and that is something worth remembering. ---
**Author:** ![Armast\_Darkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/armast_darkar/32/173723_2.png) [@Armast\_Darkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Armast_Darkar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/43 "2019-04-21T21:24:11Z")
> [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](#): > > I realize this might not help Armast and his cause, but it has to be said. The Nefantar suffered a lot, from both the Amarr and the Tribes to protect my Tribe, and that is something worth remembering. It is a complicated case. At the time of its formation, the 1st Mandate Redemptionist Brigade was comprised of those who might have been welcomed into the resurrected Nefantar Tribe as heroes in the Liberation as well as those with less than exemplary records. On the other hand, Lord Yonis Ardishapur condemned both those who aided defectors—the heroes I alluded to earlier—as well as those who were merely suspected of the crime of treason by the laws of House Ardishapur and the Amarr Empire. Once released from service, I imagine the Brigade as a whole will be much like me—stateless. But as the 1st Mandate Redemptionist Brigade has no advocate for the honorable discharge of its personnel from either the Amarr Empire nor the Minmatar Republic, I happily accept this mantle. I pray that the Minmatar Republic recognize the legal status of this Brigade in the category of “slave soldiers,” and extend to the men and women therein the absolute right of return offered for all former slaves. But first they must be freed from service and in this regard, I will continue to advocate for their honorable discharge unless Lord Arim forces alternative actions. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/44 "2019-04-21T23:30:40Z")
Three can keep a secret… when two are dead. I have a great deal of trouble believing that for all those centuries, there was a cadre of any size who knew the truth, and yet were never caught, never found out. It beggars imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seraphea_vellastraan/32/297158_2.png) [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seraphea_Vellastraan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/45 "2019-04-21T23:55:42Z")
At the very least the ‘holders’ that shepherded the Starkmanir knew. Ana Utulf knew. I am sure there were a lot that did not know, because they were not told the truth. But that’s the point. They never knew the life they were living was a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/46 "2019-04-22T01:58:01Z")
> [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](#): > > They never knew the life they were living was a lie. Then it wasn’t, for them. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/47 "2019-04-22T02:12:34Z")
The decision to hide the Starkmanir comes so much later in history than the [Nefantar](https://fiction.eveonline.com/new-eden/lore/nefantar) betrayal that the excuse that “we did it all to save the Starkies” [does not really hold](https://fiction.eveonline.com/new-eden/lore/the-elders). It is wrong to say “not all Nefantar were traitors, though some were” - it’s more like “most Nefantar were traitors, though not quite all”. ---
**Author:** ![Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/seraphea_vellastraan/32/297158_2.png) [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Seraphea_Vellastraan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/48 "2019-04-22T04:05:09Z")
Obviously the timeline doesn’t support the reason that their initial collaboration (or appearance of collaboration) was to save the Starkmanir. However, there was enough of them loyal to the Tribes that when the time came, they were able to save what little there was left of us. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/49 "2019-04-22T04:26:52Z")
With respect, you sure on that? They did backstab quite a few of those of the other tribes to get favorable treatment under the amarr’s guiding light, it’s part of the reason they got the mandate and the sebiestor, brutor ect got assimilated in the amarrs’ eyes. I think I could be counted closer to the pacifist side but even I only trust those of the nefantor who prove they wish to be part of our Republic. Some of the Amarr I view more favorably. Let that sink in. ---
**Author:** ![Lyra\_North-Onren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lyra_north-onren/32/294285_2.png) [@Lyra\_North-Onren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lyra_North-Onren)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/50 "2019-04-22T04:46:09Z")
With respect, this thread seems to have gotten a bit off-topic from its original purpose of detailing Mr. Darkar’s… actions in the Mandate and the demands he’s made of our (_my_) government. As interesting as hearing about how all of you fine Republic loyal individuals view the Nefantar is, this really isn’t a debate that belongs in a topic about these specific current events in the Mandate, or even about the Mandate in general. The reason why is simple: Anyone loyal to the Mandate is your enemy. There’s not really room for debate. I am your enemy. I don’t _hate_ you, but I shoot you and you shoot me. I literally fought against many of you in Thebeka. It’s very clear cut where we stand. To pretend otherwise is madness and to call our lives _lies_ is unfounded and arrogant. You can most certainly have a spirited debate as to what you think about the Nefantar who went with the Republic, but that’s none of my business and has nothing to do with us in the Mandate. So that would need _its own thread_. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 5:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/51 "2019-04-22T05:35:08Z")
> [@Lyra\_North-Onren](#): > > I am your enemy. I don’t _hate_ you, but I shoot you and you shoot me. Feelings mutual, if I didn’t believe you were blinded by some dying light that will always view you and yours as the dim bulb that is only tolerated instead of as something different and just as strong as those who view you as a second class citizen for your ancestry instead of your merit I may respect your holders more. Note, not respect **you,** since you yourself prescribe to being a avatar of a person who can’t seem to think beyond what another people’s words dictate. Please, apply for pie instead of their auxiliary. See what your faith brings you since after all, your a second class citizen. You are nothing in their eyes because you weren’t born with a silver spoon in your mouth. F\*\*\* your god since **IT** ignores those who are truely faithful to **it,** only playing favorites towards those who the scriptures deem “good people.” “True” amarr, not anyone else. Would you like to explain why I’m wrong by quoting scriptures? My point exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Lyra\_North-Onren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lyra_north-onren/32/294285_2.png) [@Lyra\_North-Onren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lyra_North-Onren)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 5:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/52 "2019-04-22T05:39:45Z")
Well, thank you, ma’am, for sharing that _colorful_ opinion. It and a million ISK will get you a destroyer. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 5:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/53 "2019-04-22T05:41:52Z")
Nope, free will and an isk balance will buy my destroyers. Actually my alliance supplies them. So take that as you will. Edit: Also, it’s nice to see your explaination of where I’m wrong. Don’t got one? Shame. ---
**Author:** ![Lyra\_North-Onren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lyra_north-onren/32/294285_2.png) [@Lyra\_North-Onren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lyra_North-Onren)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/54 "2019-04-22T06:14:52Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Also, it’s nice to see your explaination of where I’m wrong. Don’t got one? Shame. If you earnestly want my thoughts on your rant, I’m more than happy to share them. Let’s begin. > [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Feelings mutual, The rest of your post makes it seem a little like you _do_ hate me. Maybe I’m wrong on this, though. I can’t read your heart. > [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > if I didn’t believe you were blinded by some dying light that will always view you and yours as the dim bulb that is only tolerated instead of as something different and just as strong as those who view you as a second class citizen for your ancestry instead of your merit I may respect your holders more. Note, not respect **you,** since you yourself prescribe to being a avatar of a person who can’t seem to think beyond what another people’s words dictate. I most certainly can and do think. I just don’t think the things you want me to, so you’ve decided that makes me dumb. I’ll address the ‘second-class citizen’ part the second time you say it. Let’s be efficient about this. It’s better for both of us. > [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Please, apply for pie instead of their auxiliary. See what your faith brings you since after all, your a second class citizen. I don’t want to apply for PIE. I enjoy my role as a LUMEN director. You know? For a _second-class citizen_ it’s pretty nice that I’ve been giving roles as a director and a Fleet Commander for such a significant Empire-loyal Alliance. I know you want to point at the one Amarr loyal corp that wouldn’t let me in and forget about any of the ones that would, but I guess being honest would go against your narrative just a bit. So I understand. > [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > You are nothing in their eyes because you weren’t born with a silver spoon in your mouth. F\*\*\* your god since **IT** ignores those who are truely faithful to **it,** only playing favorites towards those who the scriptures deem “good people.” “True” amarr, not anyone else. I don’t know, aside from a few dark years in my life, I think I’ve been blessed. I don’t feel ignored by God at all. So I’m sorry if I just don’t accept this assertion of yous. I mean, I’ve been treated well by my corpmates both before and after having been named CEO of my corporation. After we joined LUMEN, our new friends in SFRIM have welcomed us with open arms. They really do go the extra mile to include me and my associates despite them being far-and-away the larger and more powerful corporation. Honestly, my brothers and sisters in Faith have treated me with respect. You’re just going to dismiss me, I know. But you asked and so I responded. > [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Would you like to explain why I’m wrong by quoting scriptures? My point exactly. I didn’t quote The Scriptures, so what was your point again? ---
**Author:** ![Armast\_Darkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/armast_darkar/32/173723_2.png) [@Armast\_Darkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Armast_Darkar)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/55 "2019-04-22T06:26:47Z")
At risk of agreeing publicly with Disquisitor North-Onren, I do ask that further personal disputes and matters not pertaining to the requests made in the original post be moved to a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/56 "2019-04-22T07:27:20Z")
Ask, and [ye shall receive](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-own-thread/154295)[1]! * * * 1. This, at least. I mean, there’s a bunch of stuff you _could_ ask for that I wouldn’t give you. But this one was easy. ---
**Author:** ![Armast\_Darkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/armast_darkar/32/173723_2.png) [@Armast\_Darkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Armast_Darkar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/57 "2019-04-30T18:30:53Z")
Update: Orlon Zashev has been added to the embargo list for Ghosts of Kahah-controlled Customs Offices in the Ammatar Mandate. Zashev Human Resources Extraction Service has also been added to the embargo list. Edit: All Ghosts of Kahah personnel have been placed on high alert and have placed a [security cordon](https://imgur.com/a/ekcTcH6) around the Customs Office above Halturzhan. ---
**Author:** ![Armast\_Darkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/armast_darkar/32/173723_2.png) [@Armast\_Darkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Armast_Darkar)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/58 "2019-05-13T17:31:56Z")
Update: [[LUMEN] A Plea for Leniency for the Family of Armast Darkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lumen-a-plea-for-leniency-for-the-family-of-armast-darkar/159403) The Ghosts of Kahah officially acknowledge the above statement from Khimi Harar. As agreed, Ghosts of Kahah personnel are evacuating our fortified positions in Jarizza. Per the undisclosed agreement, a baseliner skeleton crew will remain for refueling, logistics, and administrative purposes but the bulk of security personnel will be evacuated to the Minmatar Republic system of Odatrik. As agreed, a capsuleer presence beyond routine refueling missions will only be restored in response to direct threats of remaining Ghosts of Kahah facilities in the Ammatar Mandate. The standing orders for the Ghosts of Kahah are to continue facilitating the renewed—and peaceful—economic growth of Halturzhan (Jarizza VI) and Tanoo II through the Customs Offices that remain under MULTO control above those planets and the Astrahus-class citadel anchored above Halturzhan. We reaffirm all of the points made in the original post to Lord Arim Ardishapur and the Ammatar Consulate Government. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/59 "2019-05-13T18:01:19Z")
> [@Armast\_Darkar](#): > > the bulk of security personnel will be evacuated to the Minmatar Republic system of Odatrik Is that so? ---
**Author:** ![Lyra\_North-Onren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lyra_north-onren/32/294285_2.png) [@Lyra\_North-Onren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lyra_North-Onren)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942/60 "2019-05-13T19:11:09Z")
Mr. Darkar, I’m glad that you and I were able to come to a peaceful resolution in the end. Thank you for being as reasonable as you were (in this instance) and fulfilling your end of the deal. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/multo-a-message-to-the-ammatar-mandate-and-house-ardishapur/149942.md?page=4)