# My answer to "why so much players dont pvp" **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 18, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397 "2019-07-18T19:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/41 "2019-07-21T07:17:50Z")
hey man > [@Rocket\_Hellfire](#): > > nobody wants to lose a 100M-1B ISK ship > **[Enyo | Lugburz | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/77920631/)** > > Lugburz (Intaki Cartel) lost their Enyo in F67E-Q (Syndicate). Final Blow by art amarr (Viziam) flying in a Legion. Total Value: 87,561,550.68 ISK so i build mine to be worth less!!! ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 7:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/42 "2019-07-21T07:24:46Z")
My T3D was cheaper!!! Gf, i enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 7:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/43 "2019-07-21T07:32:55Z")
ye though i thought the legion was with you at first lol ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/44 "2019-07-21T07:42:29Z")
Check my kms. I purposefully drove an Orca into a nullcamp just to burn a billion. They were real nice about it too. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/45 "2019-07-21T08:52:56Z")
Sounds like you need to find better roaming space mate, finding great enemies that understand what a gf is, is pretty rare these days thou. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 10:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/46 "2019-07-21T10:13:10Z")
What are you on about. Literally everyone in eve engages in pvp weather they intended to or not. You mined that rock? You just took it from everyone else, sold the ore? you just devalued it for everyone else selling. Just ran that sight? No one else can. Bought something with the bounty? Now everyone else’s isk is worth less. Everything you do in eve is competing with the rest of the players ---
**Author:** ![ExcalibursTemplar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/excaliburstemplar/32/383837_2.png) [@ExcalibursTemplar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ExcalibursTemplar)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/47 "2019-07-21T10:48:08Z")
I think we covered most of lowsec in the 5/6 hours, except for you know the edges like molden heath or arida going up to solitude. It was AUTZ though which is seriously hard to find anyone to do anything with. I’ll do roaming again no problem it was just slightly disappointing the fights we had. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/48 "2019-07-21T11:58:35Z")
> [@ExcalibursTemplar](#): > > Pvp is in such a weird place in eve and i think the biggest problem is the players themselves being so risk averse. Or maybe it’s the resource gavering/isk generation system v ships/mods cost that’s the problem. Something is not right though fundamentaly with Eve pvp. You can either be an F1 monkey, drop caps on everything that moves for an instant i win. Or go subcap in small groups and eat ■■■■ or avoid 99% of the fights you’re offered. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Eve is mature, people know and master the tools to win, and they are easy to get. Then they use them. Why losing ships, if you can avoid it, and still get kills? These two quotes define the problem, in my opinion. People keep talking about ‘the old days’ of EVE, but they don’t seem to get that ‘the old days’ have moved on and the entire environment it existed in has vanished. There is no more ecosystem of roamers and hunters and miners and targets, all trying to find different niches and exploring different risks and mixing it up. Now you have 25% of the online population botting and programmed to run at any disturbance, 60% of the population who know exactly what they are doing, are fitted out for it, have the tools to minimize risk, and are opportunistically taking only the risks that have maximum payoff for minimum loss. Mixed with 10% of bored players willing to do anything to scare up a little entertainment (what Excaliburs was doing), and 5% of actual new players who are pretty much just cannon fodder for everyone else. That is a mature, uneventful, unexciting system that is starting to rot from the core. CCP needs to toss in some tools to mix things up and create frequent action, not simply hit the news with a bigass battle once per quarter. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/49 "2019-07-21T12:11:49Z")
Mining lasers that can target modules! Grenades you can prime and put in a can along with some juicy loot! Impalement spikes which you can put corpses on! Fedos! ---
**Author:** ![Franz\_Jacob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/franz_jacob/32/150051_2.png) [@Franz\_Jacob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Franz_Jacob)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/50 "2019-07-21T17:18:22Z")
> [@Holder\_Redren](#): > > eve pvp types: > > 1. gank: warp to → f1 : boring > 2. blob: anchor → f1 : boring > 3. big fleet: anchor → f1 to alpha strike a primary : boring > 4. actual eve pvp where you need to actually move, maintain transversal and choose a targets, overheat and repair with paste, change ammo types and loot navy batteries(oh my!): and its… STILL BORING! > > there is two faces of eve: “yet another boring kind of pvp online from 2003” and “actually unique space farm online” > so then player that playing space farm online wants to pvp he logoff and goes to his preferred, more engaging and cunning pvp game. > want more players go to pvp? then make eve pvp better, not a “well, its mostly about applied dps vs tank+ehp but sometimes you can do the trick!” but something at least resembling actual fleet/team fights.(yes i know that ccp is not able to do this) It’s not so much about the pvp engagement in itself that matters, But more the process and decisions leading up to it. ---
**Author:** ![Overlay\_One](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/overlay_one/32/150680_2.png) [@Overlay\_One](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Overlay_One)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 4:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/51 "2019-07-25T04:25:28Z")
The beauty with eve is: you can play the game however you want no matter what anyone else says. Sure prob 99% of the people will tell you “oh its all about pvp” but i for myself for example, i have a complete different oppinion on that. Sure there might be alot of pvp happening and sure the mindgames around pvp might be fun but is pvp the only thing you can do in eve because of it? not really. I actually think, eve pvp is borderline boring. And i dont really care to much about other oppinions. You can throw 100 People at me to say that pressing jump when the fc says “jump” and press f1 when the fc says “attack attack” is SO engaging and fun… to me i never saw pvp that dull and boring as in eve in any game. And i m talking about the actual “act” of pvp not all the stuff around it like setting it up and all that, because that doesnt matter. Its like an excuse almost to me. Imagine someone announces a BIG tournament in real life about the best of the best competing against each other and people spy on the others and try to see what pants they wear and you make them think that youre super weak just because mindgames and all that might be super fun… but then the tournament starts and you are like… “wait a moment, they havent said what kind of tournament it actually is?” and then it starts and its “who can stare at the blank wall without blinking with their eyes for the longest duration” tournament… so its great now because the preparation was fun? i guess in rl everyone would ask for a refund. To me. eve is like a social experiment, a mimic of some things that happen in the real world and experimenting with how things could go other ways. it is a sandbox… guess what real life is a sandbox too…does that mean that in real life, we all just kill each other just because…reasons? You can have complete different goals and stick to them. might it be “making friends” , or turn an empty system into something that people can live in with some infrastructure, or helping other people, trading (actually i think trading is way more fun as an pvp activity as real pvp… i get so much more thrilled if i spot a killer deal on system and 2 jumps out i m like…pls let no other snack it before me" or earlier today i bought an orca in low sec for like 230mil under sell value and it was thrilling to fly her out. I love eve politcs, i love reading about it, be around it…but that doesnt mean i need to be IN THE FIGHT. Its no different to real life. You might be interested in politics and stuff, but does that mean you want to be a politician or a soldier oder something like that? no. you probly just want to be you living in the world and observe whats happening around you. i actually think that playing and enjoying eve… like a life sim, and being a good guy can be way more challenging in a universe where everyone is just TRIGGERFINGER SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT ask questions later. if i feel like just blindly shooting at stuff… i ll just play a different game really. where you also have preperation and strategy before the game even starts and practice and try to learn the strenghts of your opponent and his weaknesses… but then the actual “act” of pvp… is engaging and skill based aswell. there is actually a quote you hear quite a lot by people playing competitive games who know eve and have played eve… its like “if youre are to bad, too slow or you have reaction times of a old granny walking across the street or youre color blind or you only have 1 arm or whatever, then you ll just play eve” while in other pvp games you re just out if you dont perform or practice every day to keep your muscle memory up just like in real sports for example. eve is like… yeah my granny could actually play eve… she can hold a mouse. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/52 "2019-07-25T07:06:27Z")
If you dont like PvP why dont you instead talk about what you do like? ---
**Author:** ![Misster\_T](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/misster_t/32/144989_2.png) [@Misster\_T](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Misster_T)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/53 "2019-07-25T07:53:17Z")
Me personally, would gladly give everyone a fight they want… if isk werent the issue. If I need to spent 1/3, 1/2 ? of my all isk for a ship to rival the other players bling ship, and knowing that making those isk back will take much time, then I’m sorry I’m not giving you the fight you seek. Problem is that in order to comfortably pvp , player needs to establish isk making engine to support pvp effort . That takes time, commitment, knowledge and investment. For new players this is no fun. Especially when more experienced players that have all that in line constantly try to prevent newer players from making enough isk so they can pvp without fear of isk bankrupcy. Yes, I’m talking of HiSec careber harrasers. Can’t you people see that ? This is what those poor bastards in HiSec are trying to do: start making enough isk to be able to throw themselves into ‘real’ gameplay, thus giving youall the content you seek. So let them do that. It’s in your best intrest. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/54 "2019-07-25T07:56:54Z")
None of this is true. You can pvp just fine in cheap ships, frigates, destroyers, the odd cruiser. It works fine and you can get wins just fine. Here’s a good example of flying just basic ships and killing all kinds of expensive targets. All solo. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/55 "2019-07-25T07:58:58Z")
What are you doing for activity? A cheap cruiser is less than 10m isk these days, and fit right still stands a smell against a lot of ships. ---
**Author:** ![Misster\_T](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/misster_t/32/144989_2.png) [@Misster\_T](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Misster_T)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/56 "2019-07-25T08:04:39Z")
> [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > Here’s a good example of flying just basic ships and killing all kinds of expensive targets. All solo. Posting cherry picked edited clips of all the ‘wins’ of someone who clearly has more experience than he shows is not convincing for me. Reality is vastly different. In order to win a fight in such ‘cheap’ ship you have to loose 3 maybe 4. Then maybe, and only maybe you get lucky. Show all uncut video of how he/she got there, not only the end result. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 8:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/57 "2019-07-25T08:05:33Z")
You seem to think losing some ships is a failure. Why is this? Do you think we should all have green kbs? ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/58 "2019-07-25T08:08:55Z")
> [@Misster\_T](#): > > Posting cherry picked edited clips of all the ‘wins’ of someone who clearly has more experience than he shows is not convincing for me. > Reality is vastly different. > In order to win a fight in such ‘cheap’ ship you have to loose 3 maybe 4. Then maybe, and only maybe you get lucky. So? It invalidates your “I can’t pay for pvp ships” excuse. You can, what’s LACKING is knowledge, experience and the will to do so. So if you don’t want to pvp (because you’re scared of not winning) then just say so, don’t come up with a silly excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/59 "2019-07-25T08:15:21Z")
I wouldn’t waste my time with folks like him. They will never accept responsibility for their own gameplay and will desperately look for any and all possible excuse so that they can cry that PvP is unfair. The worst part is their attitude and mindset. They’re so stuck up on the idea of making ISK in game, that they don’t _want_ to participate in PvP. Because to them, PvP means you lose money (even if you don’t die)." Why spend an hour roaming and getting a kill when you could be mining Veldspar and make a whole 5 million ISK in that same hour?!" is the type of mindset you’re fighting against. Nothing you say can convince them otherwise. In my 5 years of EVE experience, people like him are a lost cause and will never amount to anything. The problem comes from an internal mindset, and showing videos or providing fits or trying to explain how cheap and simple PvP can be done can’t help them. ---
**Author:** ![Yonna\_Leczarovitz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yonna_leczarovitz/32/218320_2.png) [@Yonna\_Leczarovitz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yonna_Leczarovitz)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397/60 "2019-07-25T09:41:30Z")
Censured [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-answer-to-why-so-much-players-dont-pvp/176397.md?page=4)