# My contribution to the "Highsec Lobby" initiative **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [February 12, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219 "2020-02-12T07:46:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/428 "2020-02-19T15:21:34Z")
So, what you are really doing, is just fighting over the scraps that float down to the bottom? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/429 "2020-02-19T15:49:06Z")
I don’t want gankers to get a scrap, that one worked out rather well. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/430 "2020-02-19T16:16:52Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So one anecdote proves it’s all BS does it? Yes, it does. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Congratulations? Not all players are like you, and if CCP has to rely on attracting only players like you then they aren’t going to last very long. I think its thanks to players like me that CCP has existed for this long. The players who didnt like it, left already. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Well, no, both matter. No, it doesnt. The whole point about the golden rule is to prepare you with loss and to demonstrate that this game isnt for everyone. You have to be comfortable with loss, you have to be mature, you have to have a certain level of understanding. Because even if Awoxing didnt exist, even if Wardecs were completely removed from the game, even if you remove ganking completely from hisec, you could still fly a ship through lowsec and complain and whine and cry about losing it to a gatecamp, and leave the game. This goes beyond new or old, month old or year old players. You can play the game for a year and never experience it, but leave the game after because of it. And players who cant handle that are going to experience it for the first time eventually, meaning that they will not have stayed for very long either way. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Because it wasn’t just as satisfying in most cases. Only the peasant tier awoxer just joined and blapped stuff. The ones that really enjoyed awoxing went out of their way to deal maximum damage. > > It has to be said, the fact that people post around clips like this as some sort of trophy shows what a major part of the problem is. People playing games and blowing people up is all well and good but that’s not what a lot of these players want, they want to hear the real players behind the screens getting upset. Sure, but this didnt include new players, because most brand new players arent going to understand what happened to him, and isnt going to care as much because he doesnt have a lot invested. Take the Gecko Fleet Phoon awox soundcloud that I posted. His fleet Typhoon was 3 billion isk. He clearly isnt a new player. The reason why hes on the verge of tears is because he has put so much effort and investment into his ship. So yes, I wont disagree that people want to hear players get upset. But even then, most often than not, its not the new players who are crazy raging and shouting and are on the verge of crying, its the older players who put effort and investment into their ships who are the ones who are going to get the most upset. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The fact that some people cry over it does not make it a major loss. Not every loss is a major loss even to a newbie. So what do you define as a “Major loss”? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yep, and it’s CCPs job to make sure that’s balanced against retention. That’s why for example you’ll ger swiftly banned if you go and gank newbies in a starter system. You wont get banned, youll get a warning. But the funny thing is, you get no ban or warning if you kill a new player, in a starter system, that joined a corp and is at war. In other words, the incompetance of a corporation that sends mass spam evemails recruiting people, but not teaching them or telling them about Wardecs, can cause newbies to die. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Somewhat experienced players were already immune from that because there’s no way they’d recruit newbies. And that was the problem. Anyone with experience wouldn’t expose themselves to the risk of new players, which means new players were more than likely going to wind up in bad corps with bad security which were targets for awoxers. And yet the evidence points to the opposite. New players, as in newly created players, are easier to deal with with regards to AWOXing, because they are underskilled. They deal less DPS, have less tank, are limited in which ships they can fly, etc etc. Even with the Gecko soundcloud example, the character was already over a year old. And anyone who spent even a week in the rookie help chat channel, would know that there were never any shortages of corporations, even before the friendly fire option, that were recruiting. These guys were idiots, yes, but in terms of how long they were playing, they werent in any way inexperienced. People like you, like to bring this up because they think that the newbie corps that nullsec entities create somehow means that they didnt want to recruit newbies, which you are partially correct, but not for the same reason. They werent afraid of Awoxers, they were afraid of intel leaks. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/431 "2020-02-19T16:21:08Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Salty… Aww, did I hurt your feelings? > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Still salty… Looks like i did. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > So you can just link stuff, not impressed. Clearly you were. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Off you go. Thats not a question. Do you understand what a question is? ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/432 "2020-02-19T16:22:39Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Anti- Gankers as in against the gankers, does not say Save Ganked, that would be SG, do you want to call us LD now then? If I went in to AG and asked them if their goal was to prevent Ganks and Save Ganked victims from being destroyed, what do you think they would say? Exactly. Dracvlad: 0 Gankers: 12 ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/433 "2020-02-19T16:35:48Z")
What Dracvlad thinks he is: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/b/2bb1e351879989bd06bb02f9f4bb559593336fad.jpeg) What Dracvlad actually is: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/d/dda28730c2d9dd25ed9ef4faeadccf622c8ed13b.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/434 "2020-02-19T16:41:41Z")
![1557096623342](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/1/d16e3e7bb6536fcd3e2a835c47d5711d9b4b42cd.jpeg) More like this. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/435 "2020-02-19T16:48:17Z")
> [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > If I went in to AG and asked them if their goal was to prevent Ganks and Save Ganked victims from being destroyed, what do you think they would say? Hmm so who would people accept as right here in terms of AG policy, someone who is a ganker, or someone in AG. ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/436 "2020-02-19T16:58:13Z")
> [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > More like this. “Rescued maidens that rewarded me with loot”. ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/437 "2020-02-19T17:01:03Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Hmm so who would people accept as right here in terms of AG policy, someone who is a ganker, or someone in AG. I think that the message you answered to stated that different members of AG have different stances on AG policy, and that you are in a minority among them. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/438 "2020-02-19T17:10:58Z")
> [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > I think that the message you answered to stated that different members of AG have different stances on AG policy, and that you are in a minority among them. Stopping ganks is of course the aim when it is possible. But we have found loot denial and the posture of loot denial is the most effective way to prevent ganks. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/439 "2020-02-19T17:12:01Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > But we have found loot denial and the posture of loot denial is the most effective way to prevent ganks. And it’s especially effective when you can personally profit from “denying” the loot by taking it yourself instead of giving it back to the victim of the gank? ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/440 "2020-02-19T17:13:50Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > And it’s especially effective when you can personally profit from “denying” the loot by taking it yourself instead of giving it back to the victim of the gank? Of course, since then it also directly funds Anti-Ganking operations and does not lead to victims always demanding compensation from AG. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/441 "2020-02-19T17:15:49Z")
> [@Jerry\_Falcone](#): > > @Sabus_Narian Predominately targets and scams newbs. proven fact. Oh! Great! If it’s a proven fact, then you should have no problem getting him banned! Seeing as how targetting noobs is a bannable offense. I’m off to kill retrievers in Arnon… 😇 ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/442 "2020-02-19T17:16:40Z")
> [@Galaxy\_Pig](#): > > Seeing as how targetting noobs is a bannable offense. It isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/443 "2020-02-19T17:20:27Z")
> [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > It isn’t. Please do elaborate. Myself, other players, and the developers all seem to think that it is… Help us understand. ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/444 "2020-02-19T17:21:55Z")
> [@Galaxy\_Pig](#): > > Please do elaborate. As I understand, targeting noobs in rookie systems (and some SoE Epic Arc systems) is bannable. Anywhere else it is legal. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/445 "2020-02-19T17:23:42Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Stopping ganks is of course the aim when it is possible. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Who said we were trying to stop the gank? Lolwhat. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/446 "2020-02-19T17:26:53Z")
Ohhhh, I see the confusion. _Specifically_ targetting noobs is _always_ a bannable offense _everywhere_. _Incidentally_ targetting noobs through them being in the wrong place at the wrong time is a whole different thing and is allowed. I kill noobs all the time, I just don’t _target_ noobs specifically. There’s a difference. One is a bannable offense. ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/447 "2020-02-19T17:28:55Z")
> [@Galaxy\_Pig](#): > > _Specifically_ targetting noobs is _always_ a bannable offense _everywhere_ . The article on [rookie griefing](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing) suggests otherwise. > Attempting to abuse a new players lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited **in these solar systems**. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219.md?page=20) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219.md?page=22)