# My contribution to the "Highsec Lobby" initiative **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [February 12, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219 "2020-02-12T07:46:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/531 "2020-02-21T06:54:20Z")
Don’t bother answering Dracvlad, nobody takes you seriously. Jush shush, and self-assess quietly. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/532 "2020-02-21T06:58:15Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > What moral equivalence? Nowhere did I say that the two sides are equivalent. I said that the AG side is pathetic trash in comparison to even criminal scum like gankers. You only wish you could be elevated to equivalency. This is just fake moral outrage and hate towards people who give up their time to resist the depravations of ganker scum. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > What’s so wrong about that? Gankers openly and honestly say “I’m killing these people and taking their stuff”. The fact that you don’t like what they’re doing doesn’t make them any less honest about it. Well if you can’t work that out then what can I say. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Stop making excuses for your theft. You could easily contract their loot back to them for zero ISK, no conversation needed. But you won’t, because you don’t care about the victims AGs steal from. What theft, we removed stolen items from the grasp of criminals, nothing more than that. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > So if Kusion has a lot of isk, then you claim that ganking should be nerfed. Bumping was a huge imbalance and made it too easy. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > If Kusion has no isk, then you claim that you are victorious. That is the intention, will be difficult due to the head start he has from bumping. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Do you ever critically analyze your own thoughts? I think you should look at your own posts. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Don’t bother answering Dracvlad, nobody takes you seriously. Ah but you have to keep saying that, holding your breath and stamping your feet. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Jush shush, and self-assess quietly. Why, not going to accept being told to shut up by a noob killing lowlife. I just opened up CODE.'s killboard and all I can see are Ventures… ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/533 "2020-02-21T07:02:09Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > This is just fake moral outrage and hate towards people who give up their time to resist the depravations of ganker scum. You don’t resist anything. You just enrich yourselves at the expense of the gank victims. > What theft, we removed stolen items from the grasp of criminals, nothing more than that. Imagine if a thief stole your car. The police recover your stolen property and arrest the thief, but declare that because the police department really needs money they’re going to keep your car and sell it at auction to buy more gear. The fact that you took the stolen property from the people who stole it doesn’t change who the legitimate owner is, and you are nothing more than a common thief if you do not return it to that owner. > Bumping was a huge imbalance and made it too easy. Only because idiot freighter pilots flew profitable gank targets. If freighter pilots had managed to stop being greedy idiots the might still have been ganked out of sheer desire for killmails but the gankers never would have made a profit. (Now, granted, bumping was a bad mechanic because extended stalemates are bad game design and encounters should be pushed towards a resolution, but that’s a very different objection than yours.) ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/534 "2020-02-21T07:03:16Z")
And, once again, for those who missed it: What Dracvlad thinks he is: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/b/2bb1e351879989bd06bb02f9f4bb559593336fad.jpeg) What Dracvlad really is: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/d/dda28730c2d9dd25ed9ef4faeadccf622c8ed13b.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/535 "2020-02-21T07:10:15Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > You don’t resist anything. You just enrich yourselves at the expense of the gank victims. Opinions are not fact. I can safely say that opposing ganking has cost me ISK. Though not from any loss to them, just in terms of investing in ships to oppose them. I make this sacrifice for the greater good of course. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Imagine if a thief stole your car. The police recover your stolen property and arrest the thief, but declare that because the police department really needs money they’re going to keep your car and sell it at auction to buy more gear. The fact that you took the stolen property from the people who stole it doesn’t change who the legitimate owner is, and you are nothing more than a common thief if you do not return it to that owner. Bringing RL comparisons into a game is always rather silly. The person who has the car stolen in RL will be paid his loss by the insurance company assuming that he insured his vehicle in the first place. The vehicle then becomes the property of the insurance company if they have already paid out compensation, if not it is returned to the victim and repairs made. Can you apply that back to Eve please. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Only because idiot freighter pilots flew profitable gank targets. If freighter pilots had managed to stop being greedy idiots the might still have been ganked out of sheer desire for killmails but the gankers never would have made a profit. Well that 44bn Nomad pilot was certainly that. You would be happy to know that all the loot went up in smoke. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > (Now, granted, bumping was a bad mechanic because extended stalemates are bad game design and encounters should be pushed towards a resolution, but that’s a very different objection than yours.) That is pretty close to my issue with it. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > And, once again, for those who missed it: I like the hat the second guy is wearing, he looks rather cool in it. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/536 "2020-02-21T07:14:17Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Bringing RL comparisons into a game is always rather silly. The person who has the car stolen in RL will be paid his loss by the insurance company assuming that he insured his vehicle in the first place. The vehicle then becomes the property of the insurance company if they have already paid out compensation, if not it is returned to the victim and repairs made. Can you apply that back to Eve please. So, as expected, you ignore the point of the analogy in favor of nitpicking at irrelevant details. It doesn’t matter what happens with the insurance, the police are never allowed to keep the stolen property and refuse to give it back to its rightful owner just because they decide that they’d like to use the stolen property to fund more police activity. > That is pretty close to my issue with it. Hardly. My objection is simply to the duration, not the outcome. You complain endlessly about how “overpowered” ganking is, while I would have been quite happy with every single instance of long-duration bumping instead ending after 30 seconds with a successful gank where the gankers get the loot. > I like the hat the second guy is wearing, he looks rather cool in it. I pray you do not seriously believe that and are just trolling here. ---
**Author:** ![Australian\_Excellence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/australian_excellence/32/367782_2.png) [@Australian\_Excellence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Australian_Excellence)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/537 "2020-02-21T07:14:58Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Over a trillion ISK, just goes to show how broken bumping was Where did I say he got it all through ganking? God you’re a ■■■■■■■ retard > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Bumping was a huge imbalance and made it too easy. Another excuse for being a complete failure ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/538 "2020-02-21T07:16:59Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > What theft, we removed stolen items from the grasp of criminals, nothing more than that. Sounds like you’re a CODE. agent. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/539 "2020-02-21T07:20:36Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > So, as expected, you ignore the point of the analogy in favor of nitpicking at irrelevant details. It doesn’t matter what happens with the insurance, the police are never allowed to keep the stolen property and refuse to give it back to its rightful owner just because they decide that they’d like to use the stolen property to fund more police activity. That is telling you how it works in real life. You are likely the type of person running around uninsured. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Hardly. My objection is simply to the duration, not the outcome. You complain endlessly about how “overpowered” ganking is, while I would have been quite happy with every single instance of long-duration bumping instead ending after 30 seconds with a successful gank where the gankers get the loot. No problem with the outcome at all actually, as it is now I am happy. There was a convo detailed in the CODE bully thread where a ganker asked someone to bump someone until he got back from work. That was broken. Now they have to be set up and ready to go, which for me is perfectly fine. Problem is with people like you, you believe your own and other peoples propaganda. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > I pray you do not seriously believe that and are just trolling here. Nice hat, he does look cool in it, I also like the way his bare feet are curling into the shag pile carpet, obviously enjoying the feel of it. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Where did I say he got it all through ganking? God you’re a ■■■■■■■ retard Salty…, I was talking about Kusion you complete and utter retard. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > Another excuse for being a complete failure Against that it made it too easy for you. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Sounds like you’re a CODE. agent. In your mind. Funny that. How are you by the way, I hope you are OK now, don’t forget that these exchanges are game related. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/540 "2020-02-21T07:22:23Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > That is telling you how it works in real life. You are likely the type of person running around uninsured. Like I said, ignore the substance of the argument in favor of nitpicking at irrelevant details. Thanks for admitting that you have nothing to say in defense of yourself and are nothing but a petty thug with delusions of grandeur. > Nice hat, he does look cool in it, I also like the way his bare feet are curling into the shag pile carpet, obviously enjoying the feel of it. Shrug. Whatever, wear the height of incel fashion. It’s not like you have any dignity left to sacrifice at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/541 "2020-02-21T07:24:05Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Like I said, ignore the substance of the argument in favor of nitpicking at irrelevant details. Thanks for admitting that you have nothing to say in defense of yourself and are nothing but a petty thug with delusions of grandeur. You made no argument. A couple of years ago I managed to get a freighter pilot to accept a convo, I managed to warp in two DST’s twice in which he placed some of his stuff in it, they ganked him before I could finish clearing his stuff. He got it all contracted back to him as promised. The simple fact is that one makes agreements with people and stick to them, one also makes decisions and takes the heat. In the example of Kusions gank in Uedama the player who took the loot asked me, and I told him to keep it, but only after the guy had refused the convo or had logged. He had given up on his items, so people can judge me on that if they want, I am totally fine with that, I am of course very happy that my fellow AG’r can place more loot scoopers around key locations because of that haul from the gankers failure. That is my defence, purely and simply, but the person who is nit-picking is you. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Shrug. Whatever, wear the height of incel fashion. It’s not like you have any dignity left to sacrifice at this point. I was thinking old style detective or private eye films from the past. It is all a question of perspective… I was thinking that the use of the word incel is you projecting your own inability onto me, I tend to find people who do this on forums suffer from the thing they throw at people, you are obviously a very angry and bitter person and it shows with every post you make. ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/542 "2020-02-21T07:39:38Z")
I went to Audaerne and watched for myself the effort put in by Knowledgeminer in his Mach. I have to commend you on your perseverence in the face of repeated verbal volleys by the miners in the belt. And you kept your cool and did not stoop to insults or petty comments. 👏 Will return… ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/543 "2020-02-21T07:47:08Z")
> [@Wanda\_Fayne](#): > > did not stoop to insults or petty comments. If only he had done that in the AG chat channel… ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/545 "2020-02-21T09:15:23Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Do you ever critically analyze your own thoughts? Rhetorical question, right? ---
**Author:** ![Ugren\_Okaski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ugren_okaski/32/181459_2.png) [@Ugren\_Okaski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ugren_Okaski)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/546 "2020-02-21T09:17:36Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > If only he had done that in the AG chat channel… Was it really that bad? ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/547 "2020-02-21T09:19:22Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Over a trillion ISK, just goes to show how broken bumping was. Bollocks. You don’t know he made the money from bumping (alone). ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/548 "2020-02-21T09:37:29Z")
> [@Ugren\_Okaski](#): > > Was it really that bad? I have said what I felt was the issue, I should not have posted that whimsical comment actually, because it is done and dusted in that he is no longer in the AG chat channel and that works for me. I will say however that he is a very good hunter and knows the game very well, I took the time to go into his personal channel and pick his brains and I learnt some things from him. This game has complicated mechanics and you can get it wrong, I accept players making mistakes on understanding things and that they will at times be stuck in their misunderstanding, has happened to me too. There were a lot of trolls in the AG chat channel and some were targeting him, but he was unable to work out who was trolling him and who was not and his pre-conditioned idea that everyone in AG were idiots resulted in what I would call an over reaction or too quick to start calling names on those that were not trolling. It matters not to me whether he was doing this deliberately or whether this was just personal incompetence, it was just destructive. I have come across people in this game who have been stirring up stuff and breaking up groups, I saw that occur in Pirate Nation and he looked like that to me, but I could of course be wrong. In any case when you look at it the starting point of how you feel about others and how they play is often how you deal with your feelings towards others that are different to you and defines how you will play. He is definitely in the ganker camp in attitude. So even though he might not be a ganker and was actually trying to help people get better, he was interacting with people he already had contempt for. Sad really, both Astevon and I tried to make him see it and he was blind to it. That being said AG is changing, it is becoming more aggressive in certain areas, objectives are changing, previously there was more focus on saving people, but that is actually ineffective and needs a lot of bodies if you are trying to use logi to save a target. We don’t have the numbers pure and simple. > [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Bollocks. You don’t know he made the money from bumping (alone). I listened to his interview on TIS, you are the one talking bollocks… ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/550 "2020-02-21T10:51:10Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I listened to his interview on TIS, you are the one talking bollocks… If you mean this one: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/0/7/e0761ffade772a8559472d9187196bc7ecdf294b.jpeg "Talking in Stations - S01E15 - High-Security Ganks") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpEXZFtz-Go) In which the discussion with Jason starts at 12:14 and goes to 1:03:46, then there isn’t anything in it that discusses a trillion ISK, nor that bumping alone is how he made his ISK. He talks about being an industrialist before starting ganking and hauling for PushX and that he is financially stable, but he doesn’t identify ganking, and certianly not bumping, as the single source of that income. Maybe you mean some other evidence to support it, but it can’t be that interview. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/551 "2020-02-21T10:54:35Z")
Listen to the comments he made about indy and his transition to ganking. It is rather evident in what he said, at least it was to me. I also find it interesting that an indy player transitioned directly to ganking on an industrial basis. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/552 "2020-02-21T10:57:08Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Listen to the comments he made about indy and his transition to ganking I did. I just listened to it again myself because I didn’t recall anything like that and it would be good information if it was there. But it isn’t. @Nicolai_Serkanner was correct in what he said, at least if that interview is really where you recalled it from. Maybe you’ve seen evidence elsewhere. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219.md?page=25) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219.md?page=27)