# My contribution to the "Highsec Lobby" initiative **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [February 12, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219 "2020-02-12T07:46:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/691 "2020-02-25T21:49:49Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > You gotta flower the rock to get the flower Wtf This is like something Billy would say. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/692 "2020-02-25T21:51:09Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Reasonable PvE players express you’re opinions and you start screening “farmer trash” at them when they don;t agree with your view that everyone should be fodder for rookie PvP players like yourself. {citation needed} Also, please remember that the primary victims of farmer trash are legitimate PvE players whose income is crippled by the excess production flooding the market. PvP players can always leave highsec and go find people to shoot elsewhere. > Show me where CCP have declared it not to be an exploit to bypass the ineligibility for wadecs. They allowed public discussion of the mechanic and did not take action against anyone who used it. They did change the mechanic to function in a way that many people prefer, but in no way did they treat it as an exploit. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/694 "2020-02-25T22:04:44Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Prove it. It’s basic supply vs. demand. The more supply is in the market the lower prices will be. Therefore if fewer people are able to successfully complete PvE content prices for the things they produce will be higher. If PvE is made easier and safer to appease the farmer trash then prices go down for the people who don’t need additional safety to succeed. > Most of the market flooding comes from nullsec by a massive margin. What’s your point? Regardless of other sources of production reducing production will still increase prices, and many nullsec residents are farmer trash just like their highsec counterparts. > So again, show me evidence of CCP stating that it is not an exploit to bypass the ineligibility for war mechanic. The fact that nobody was banned for using the exploit and discussion of the mechanic was not restricted at all. I’ve provided evidence that CCP didn’t view it as an exploit, if you want to establish that it was in fact an exploit then you need to provide some evidence of your own. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/695 "2020-02-25T22:08:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Most of the market flooding comes from nullsec by a massive margin. See “farmer trash” “krab” “kulak” etc ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/697 "2020-02-25T22:20:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > . I was apparently farmer trash the other week too Siding with kulaks shows disrespect for The People. That’s not an accusation though. That would be for the NKVD to decide. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/698 "2020-02-25T22:28:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Except a PVE player affects both supply and demand. Not really. Loss in PvE is virtually nonexistent if you are a competent PvE player (and if you aren’t then competent PvE players want you to continue to fail and keep prices high), so the only time PvE players create demand is when they are destroyed in PvP attacks. > To an industrialist, lower prices of minerals is a good thing. Assuming the industrialist is not smart enough to understand the benefits of vertical integration and buys their minerals on the open market. Higher mineral prices may drive up the costs of production but they also drive up the sale price of the finished product, for a net change of zero. > To a mission runner lower prices of improvements to or replacements of ships and modules is a good thing. Competent mission runners do not ever buy improvements or replacements because loss in mission farming (outside of being suicide ganked by another player) is virtually impossible. You assemble a single mission ship and then farm indefinitely with it, the only thing you ever buy is ammo. And to the limited extent that you could ever conceivably “improve” (IOW, make it more profitable to suicide gank) a mission ship it would come in the form of faction/officer upgrades that exist entirely separately from the mining/industry system. > Parts of PvE have been made easier in the past and it hasn’t caused everyone to stop engaging in them. I never said people would stop engaging in them. I said that making PvE easier drives down prices for whatever that PvE activity produces because more people are able to successfully farm that PvE content and increase supply. But the fact that people are willing to take a reduced income over zero income does not prove that this decline in prices doesn’t exist. > My point is that you’re banging on about highsec “farmer trash” like they run the economy. Lolwut? I never said they run the economy, stop posting blatant straw man arguments. > Classic Merin. “I don’t want to provide evidence, so you provide evidence to prove my wild assumptions wrong”. Stop lying. I have provided more evidence than you did, and even evidence that is not 100% conclusive is still better than your unsupported assertion that you are right unless I prove you wrong. > Indeed, but seemingly depending on the position of the moon or some other arbitrary factor, Merin chooses to include or exclude those from the definition of “farmer trash”. And this is just you being an idiot. I have _constantly_ insulted nullbears who act entitled to safe 23/7 solo farming. The only time I have ever said anything positive about them is maybe a grudging acknowledgement that, while they are utterly pathetic, they are maybe just a tiny bit less pathetic than highsec farmer trash because they don’t have CONCORD to hide behind. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/700 "2020-02-25T22:57:09Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So then it’s not irrelevant when talking across EVE unless you think all players are competent. You’re missing the point. Competent players do not lose anything in PvE and want PvE to remain at its current difficulty level. A competent mission farmer does not care if mining becomes more dangerous because they are barely buying anything. Incompetent players lose stuff and are hurt by higher prices, but competent players want them to continue losing stuff. > You seem to have a habit of making very general statements based on pure theory with no actual experience. Sorry, but economic theory is not something you can ignore. To the extent that EVE’s markets diverge from what theory would say it is 100% because of irrational behavior by incompetent players. And it’s in the best interest of competent players for the “minerals I mine myself are free” idiots to get driven out of the game so that the market can move back towards rational behavior. > But again you’re just saying “PvE” as if it’s one thing. It’s not. It is in the context of this discussion because the changes farmer trash demands apply equally to all PvP. For example, removing suicide ganking would be an increase in safety for all PvE activities so it would have a PvE-wide effect of making PvE easier for low-skill players and driving down the income of high-skill players who are not being hurt by suicide ganking (and often take advantage of its benefits). The exact numbers for each activity would be different, but in general terms the result is the same. > Where? all you’ve done is make statements about industry and trade that prove you to have no idea what you are talking about. Stop lying you worthless piece of \*\*\*\*. You know perfectly well that the statement you just quoted was in reference to the war mechanics being an exploit or not, not industry/trade like you are presenting it. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/702 "2020-02-25T23:04:42Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Stop lying you worthless piece of \*\*\*\*. Why do people continue to talk to him or read any of the drivel he writes? He is clearly incapable of having a rational adult conversation. All he does is make blanket generalizations, with a heap of passive-aggressive pseudo-intellectual snark, and then start crying about ‘harassment’ when he’s confronted with the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/703 "2020-02-25T23:21:15Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m not. And here ends the discussion. You blatantly misquoted me and lied about the context, and now you deny that you lied. \*\*\*\* off you dishonest piece of \*\*\*\* troll. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/707 "2020-02-25T23:30:44Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Please refrain from personal attacks. Please refrain from performing sex acts on livestock so I won’t have to. > I’ve not lied at all. And now you lie again. I said “I have provided more evidence than you did” regarding the question of whether or not the recent war mechanic was an exploit or not, you replied with “Where? all you’ve done is make statements about industry and trade that prove you to have no idea what you are talking about.”. That is a blatant attempt to pretend that the statement you quoted was about industry, not about war mechanics, and the claim that I had not provided evidence regarding the war mechanics was also a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/708 "2020-02-25T23:31:17Z")
I think Merin has raised some really good points here. I sincerely hope Lucas takes this to heart and thinks about what she said. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/710 "2020-02-25T23:37:36Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Please refrain from personal attacks. It’s not my fault the truth hurts. You can stop receiving criticism of your perversion at any time if you choose to do so, just stop posting here. > Nope, It was simply a summary of your post. Please refrain from defending your dishonest out of context quoting and blatant lying. ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/712 "2020-02-25T23:39:45Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > The miner fancies himself to be a big flower, growing despite the hard rock of the high security zone. He is proud of himself, although incompetent, because he has chosen to plant himself outside the main throughfare, in Audaerne. He is convinced that he will be allowed to spread. Unfortunately, he is already doomed, and will inevitably be crushed. A flower grown is the beginning of a great meadow 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/713 "2020-02-25T23:42:18Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > \*\*\*\* off you inbred sheep\*\*\*\*er. Woah somebody is raging ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/715 "2020-02-25T23:43:04Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > \*\*\*\*er damn racist too ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/716 "2020-02-25T23:44:09Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > I am an idiot who doesn’t know what the f-word is so I’m going to try to pretend that you said something actually objectionable. And you can also \*\*\*\* off and go back to WoW. ---
**Author:** ![Sabus\_Narian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabus_narian/32/147677_2.png) [@Sabus\_Narian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabus_Narian)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/717 "2020-02-25T23:45:18Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > And you can also \*\*\*\* off and go back to WoW. whatever racist ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/718 "2020-02-26T00:00:54Z")
> [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > whatever racist Making things up yet again I see… ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/719 "2020-02-26T00:14:57Z")
> [@Galaxy\_Pig](#): > > I totally agree, it is just a semantic distinction. I’m just pointing out that non-butthurt players don’t feel the need to harp on this little semantic distinction about what constituted REAL PVP. Point of order: 1. I feel the need to argue semantics all the time because that’s just how I am, not because I’m feeling butthurt. 2. In my opinion, no matter how unbalanced it is, when players compete against one another then they are, _by definition_, engaging in PvP. I don’t understand why other people feel the need to keep harping about how EvE doesn’t have “real PvP” when it’s such a broad term in the first place. There’s room for everyone, why be exclusionist about it? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > He’s not. Like most players he just has opinions on what he feels would make the game better. Code players just like to pretend that they get to decide what opinions are valid. Everyone’s opinions are valid, but that doesn’t mean everyone’s opinions are _good_. Regardless of the merit to his ideas, my issue with him stems from how he appears to be taking advantage of new players to their detriment and his own benefit. That’s just not okay. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > No, he really is unhappy with it. All of his “opinions” consist of “EVE is not the game for me, it needs to be the exact opposite of what it is now”. He’s trying to play a PvP sandbox game as a solo AFK farming game and spends all of his time demanding that CCP remove PvP and make everything easier so his wallet numbers can go up faster. He would genuinely be better off playing a game that is already closer to what he wants to do. Maybe he feels satisfaction in finding something - _anything_ - to fight against, no matter how futile it is to do so? If that’s the case then he certainly picked the right game to try and turn into a farming simulator. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Which is a valid playstyle. That’s the whole “sandbox” thing. People can in fact play however they want, no matter how much you cry about it. [Maxim 47](https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-01-19): “Don’t expect the enemy to cooperate in the creation of your dream engagement.” You’re not playing in a vacuum. Failure to account for what other players are going to do _will_ end up biting you at some point because having relatively few limitations on player actions is one of the cornerstones of EvE’s gameplay. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > There’s a reason why, when someone made his corp war eligible, he stopped playing EVE and told his corp to spam CCP with petitions instead of fighting back. Wait, _seriously?_ > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > redundant “yes, what 99999 people here already said” spam That’s what likes are for, isn’t it? > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Lol, I will not dig trough logs just to get some “prove” he will just ignore. I have better things to do with my time. Fair enough. > [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > The live video made it clear it is one person. …I stand corrected. Is he the guy with a dozen monitors hanging over his desk? I haven’t seen his streams. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why? I’ve seen your posting history. I know that you’ll accept no evidence that goes against what you believe to be true. If you make claims, then the burden of proof falls to you when they are challenged. > [@Bernie\_Nator](#): > > Ooooo what about that mail where you demanded your corp to mass petition CCP? Screenshots, please. Even better if someone still has that in their EVEmail and forwards it to me. > [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Jesus wept. Something like 90% of the internet appears to consider punctuation as their mortal enemy. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Years ago, I pioneered this modern trend of point by point addressing each part of someone’s essay. I soon realized that this was a lot of work, and it was also ineffective as a means of communication. **BEWARE THE HORRORS OF [SPAGHETTI POSTING](https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/spaghetti-posting-and-you.36634/)!!!** > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > You are infected with bot aspirancy, and James teaches us to pity the miners. Speaking of which, if you ever feel like paying Deltole a visit there’s a group of bot-aspirants farming the Skeleton Comet COSMOS site. It’s borderline impossible for anyone else to run the site with them there. > [@Sabus\_Narian](#): > > ![marguerite-729510__340](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/c/3c17c5d0153779922a30a938fc97c6c1dd3a1bf2.jpeg) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/b/fb1c9ff415594d541b8c0e2ffbdc957d41bc98bd.jpeg) > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > I think Merin has raised some really good points here. I sincerely hope Lucas takes this to heart and thinks about what she said. So do I. Constant back-and-forth arguments like this accomplish nothing constructive. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/720 "2020-02-26T01:15:35Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > Wait, _seriously?_ Yep. He even proudly admitted it on the forums. ![war](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/2/e2e716a1cde6f33b9be8db166cf1b6d95565e176.jpeg) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219.md?page=32) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219.md?page=34)