# My contribution to the "Highsec Lobby" initiative **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [February 12, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219 "2020-02-12T07:46:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/63 "2020-02-16T23:34:52Z")
Can someone fill me in on how Sabus Narian is supposed to be a scammer? It’s hard finding reliable details on all this drama. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Please feel free to close the door, seal the lock and throw the key. I will continue shooting and harassing gankers because I love to do that, but I don’t want to be part of that “community” anymore. You should start your own channel, then! Present yourself as an alternative to them, and offer to teach people who seem interested in learning about anti-ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/64 "2020-02-16T23:43:06Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > Can someone fill me in on how Sabus Narian is supposed to be a scammer? It’s hard finding reliable details on all this drama. I personally haven’t said anywhere Sabus is a scammer. I wouldn’t be surprised he is, but I don’t know and hence haven’t said anything to that effect. What I’ve said and maintain is that he hoards newbies, which he then _ **uses** _ for his lobbying purposes, not to mention all the forum spamming that has caused most of his threads to be locked by the ISDs. > [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > You should start your own channel, then! Present yourself as an alternative to them, and offer to teach people who seem interested in learning about anti-ganking. No, I shouldn’t. I _might_ do that, but have no inclination to do so atm. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/65 "2020-02-16T23:44:52Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > Sabus Narian Firs off, he’s this guy that Scipio profiled here: [How to get more people to play eve - #1260 by Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve/144040/1260) That scam ran its course and the new one is Incompetent and Proud. It’s a mass catch-all for new players using fake accounts to boost membership numbers. People join and their taxes are easy revenue SN. I’m sure they do some good for new players but what he claims is total BS…this also has been documented by spies…(I don’t have those links but if you really need them I will dig them up). Go look at Incompetent and Proud’s [https://evewho.com/corporation/98584128](https://evewho.com/corporation/98584128) characters and check the departed list’s dates…no normal corp looks like that… Others can add more I’m sure… ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/66 "2020-02-17T00:19:40Z")
Holy carp, if he’s that freaking bad then why hasn’t this guy been run out of EvE like Scottmw15 was? And what were the changes that @Scipio_Artelius referred to that nearly eliminated “ways to weed out the truly toxic people”? Edit: _■■■■_, I just realized that I got a mail from these guys when I just started playing. If I hadn’t known about E-Uni at the time I might very well have joined _them!_ ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/67 "2020-02-17T06:56:36Z")
We always had problems with people like those in the past, but we had better tools to deal with them. Mainly wardecs and safary (AKA awoxing). ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/68 "2020-02-17T07:00:10Z")
You are going after him for opening a chat channel to lobby for a better deal for hisec? For what it is worth I do not agree with his statement that he wants to remove PvP from hisec. * * * About this entity: I read through Scipio’s post previously and that Procurer BPO did stand out as suspicious, however it can also depend on when you try to buy it from the Jita market, currently cheapest is 1.75bn, there are only 5 on sale and the most expensive is 2bn. I am not sure I can see that as proof of a scam. I have been in nullsec alliances that do buybacks and who pay for key players subscriptions with plex, and who apply tax on their alliance, and adjust it to 100% for a brief time to get ISK for certain projects. Is it because he is a hisec player and that he is attracting new players that this is a scam? I have yet to see details of SRP for his Defence against the Dark Arts corp to fight war decs, does he do one? Can a new player keep funding 47m for each lost Ferox, the ISK has to come from somewhere? > **[Ferox | Dobby-is-a-dead dobby-master | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/81491304/)** > > Dobby-is-a-dead dobby-master (Defence Against the Dark Arts) lost their Ferox in Tar (Genesis) Total Value: 46,658,937.27 ISK There is so much that people don’t know about his setup. > [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > Holy carp, If he’s that freaking bad then why hasn’t this guy been run out of EvE like Scottmw15 was? And what were the changes that @Scipio_Artelius referred to that nearly eliminated “ways to weed out the truly toxic people”? That would be the war dec system, because previously you could war dec every corp and now you can only war dec them if they have a structure. So smart people have their main entity without any structures, have structure owning corps, and a specific war dec defence entity. People can get back at them for destroying their structures of course, but they want to go after his members in space. The other option was to infiltrate and blow them up, but CCP implemented a friendly fire toggle, but that was needed because most veterans gave up on recruiting players because they were exposing themselves to being attacked by gankers posing as new players. It ended up having too negative an impact and CCP had to adjust it. * * * With all this being said. A number of people I spoke to about this entity liked the fact that people can now create large scale hisec entities without unending war decs that crushed the life from them, and seeing this group have a corp that fights a war dec’s is also seen as a good thing. They are also trying to create a community that does something, and fighting back against war decs is what you lot want isn’t it? > **[Defence Against the Dark Arts | Corporation](https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98508428/)** > > Defence Against the Dark Arts: 11,617 ships destroyed and 4,740 ships lost. Anyway…, whatever! And look at [this](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-to-get-more-people-to-play-eve/144040/1405), a detailed reply to Scipio that refuted his allegations in detail. And not long after he refuted Scipio the thread was closed, oh dear… At least I now know who the POCO gantry exploit is being used against and by who. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > A more ironic statement has never been said before Why would we care what a butt hurt foul mouthed and ignorant ganker would yell at us. ---
**Author:** ![R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/r-0-b-0-c-o-p/32/474175_2.png) [@R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/R-0-B-0-C-O-P)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 8:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/69 "2020-02-17T08:22:51Z")
I’ve been gone from here too long… Glad to see there’s still some good left in the game. Thanks for the entertainment @Knowledgeminer! ---
**Author:** ![Tradulix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tradulix/32/275143_2.png) [@Tradulix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tradulix)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/71 "2020-02-17T11:34:45Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Knowledgeminer and his alts have now been banned from the AG channels LOL … please ban me to. I could have 1k other chars … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/73 "2020-02-17T12:23:54Z")
I mean this was clear from the start that this would eventually happen. @Knowledgeminer is a competent player and that never really matched with ag. He also never subscriber to the true values of the ag community, which is hate for gankers, feeling yourself as the white knight hero and a lot of crying and meta gaming for changes in your favor to compensate for incompetence. He had just fun hunting gankers, and that’s just not what ag is or ever was. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/74 "2020-02-17T12:33:49Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > You are going after him for opening a chat channel to lobby for a better deal for hisec? LOL. Talk about not getting it. Why am I not surprised? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Does this mean we can stop pretending Knowledgeminer isn’t a code alt? Oh, look, the sage and perspicacious guy that needs to invent stories to be able to make reality fit well with his narrative, and is so clueless he’s not even able to realise his theories don’t have a leg to stand upon, has come to grace this thread too… I truly simply wanted to announce that I had started to suicide gank myself, but this thread is getting better and better… 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/76 "2020-02-17T12:41:33Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > He had just fun hunting gankers, and that’s just not what ag is or ever was. Well if he was just having fun hunting gankers why was he spending so much time annoying the hell out of himself and others in the AG chat channel? Which was mainly due to his inability to get on with anyone and his anger issues with anyone else’s less than fully efficient approach? Your comments makes no sense as per normal. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > @Knowledgeminer is a competent player I agree that he is a competent hunter, not much else though. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > and that never really matched with ag. Disagree, his inability to get on with anyone, was what did not match with AG. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > He also never subscriber to the true values of the ag community, which is hate for gankers, feeling yourself as the white knight hero and a lot of crying and meta gaming for changes in your favor to compensate for incompetence. The hate I and other AG get from gankers is the issue. Above in this very thread Australian Excellence goes off on a tragic event once again which got him banned as Loyalanon. There is the hate right in front of your nose. The rest of your rant is just another ganker trying to protect himself and their easy play against any balance passes. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > LOL. Talk about not getting it. Why am I not surprised? Well I am now in that highsec lobby channel to find out what it is all about, I suppose that you will come after me now based on this statement. > I totally support this and hereby announce my intention to help make high sec better by increasing the risk of doing all kinds of activities in high sec for everyone in that “Highsec Lobby” channel, in order to keep the risk vs rewards in line with the increased rewards that I’m sure these lobbyists are going to get from CCP Real Soon™. > > I won’t just avoid interfering with anyone ganking pilots belonging to the wonderful alliance the OP belongs to. From now on, I’m also willing to _actively help_ anyone wanting to gank them, all in the hope that the increased risk will help CCP see that the demands of these lobbyists are fully justified and highsec rewards need to be increased to compensate… ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/78 "2020-02-17T12:58:43Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’ve never really understood […] I just assumed […] Yes, yes, you may rest assured your well informed, sage and perspicacious “contributions” to these forums are truly appreciated for what they’re worth… > [@Dracvlad](#): > > why was he spending so much time annoying the hell out of himself and others in the AG chat channel? That _some_ people there gets so annoyed when someone tells them the truth is _their_ problem, not mine… > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Due to his inability to get on with anyone This is a lie, _another_ lie… > [@Dracvlad](#): > > his inability to get on with anyone, was what did not match with AG. 🤣 🤣 > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Well I am now in that highsec lobby channel to find out what it is all about Funny, I’ve never been, nor did I need to in order to know what it’s all about… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It should be noted that I too now support the highsec Lobby and I’ve just brought a 16 man highsec AFK mining fleet back to counter any potential loss of overall mining yield caused by @Knowledgeminer This is great. I was running out of content because nearly nobody mines for them there anymore. Are you going to be mining in Audaerne and nearby systems? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/79 "2020-02-17T13:03:25Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > That _some_ people there gets so annoyed when someone tells them the truth is _their_ problem, not mine… But it was not the full truth actually, and telling was actually ramming it down their throats with an extreme level of smug superiority and aggression. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > This is a lie, _another_ lie… Let me see, I had several people tell me that they would go back into the AG chat channel now that you were banned. I am lying obviously…, LOL. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > 🤣 🤣 Oh look you can only answer with emos… > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Funny, I’ve never been, nor did I need to in order to know what it’s all about… Obviously…, following on from your ‘winning’ AG chat channel approach to gaining friendships and influencing people. Wow… ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/81 "2020-02-17T13:21:33Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > But it was not the full truth actually Oh no, I was surreptitiously including difficult to notice lies that sage players like you were able to notice… > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I had several people tell me that they would go back into the AG chat channel now that you were banned. I am lying obviously… Obviously. And not only lying, but showing you don’t know the difference between ‘some’ or ‘several’ and ‘everyone’ or ‘anyone’ too… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m not going to make it that easy for you. Damn. Guess I’ll have to keep bumping and ganking the poor souls still remaining in Audearne and leave you alone then… ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/82 "2020-02-17T13:22:01Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > but that was needed because most veterans gave up on recruiting players because they were exposing themselves to being attacked by gankers posing as new players. It ended up having too negative an impact and CCP had to adjust it. Have to chime in here. This is not the case. If you asked the corps themselves they were never worried about awoxing. Anyone who wasn’t openly recruiting new players was because they didn’t want to spend effort training new players on the basics of eve and/or mentioned how often new players didn’t stick around. There was only one very vague mention of awoxing from 20-something corps. And several corps that claimed to not be new player friendly said they’d still take on new players if they showed the right attitude. Exactly as predicted, the awox changes just meant corps could click accept to every applicant and collect the corp tax from their members. Leadership don’t spend any time providing content, supporting corpies or getting to know the players they are leading. Good corps are obscured by spamming from bad corps. I’d say the awox change lowered corp quality and worsened the npe for huge amounts of players. CCP screwed up with awox changes. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/83 "2020-02-17T13:29:23Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Oh no, I was surreptitiously including difficult to notice lies that sage players like you were able to notice… For example you would tell people there was no value in shooting gankers unless you blew them up to stop a gank. And yet people shot them, got large bounties and then upped their game with more involved play and better ships. One such player just had to move along the pipes to get multiple Tornado gankers to log out, while you ineffectually sat in one system in Mimmatar space. And of course certain gankers use smart bombers to try to prevent people from picking up bounties, and they do this because of what reason? Or does this actually denote a value to it when you kept on saying that there was none. Just one example where you got it wrong. 😂 > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Obviously. And not only lying, but showing you don’t know the difference between ‘some’ or ‘several’ and ‘everyone’ or ‘anyone’ too… Oh look arguing on word use and not on the fact that several people are glad to see the back of you and have re-joined the AG chat channel. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Have to chime in here. This is not the case. It was the case. I suppose CCP made this change in a vacuum? And they did not analyse any of their data on recruitment and the like at all in hisec… ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/84 "2020-02-17T13:46:49Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I suppose CCP made this change in a vacuum? Ccp just went with it on a whim pretty much. They said it was an ‘unintuitive’ mechanic but that was it. There was no calling from the players to get rid of it. Instead players and at least one csm said it was a bad idea. There was no data from ccp to suggest corps were reluctant to pick up new players because of awoxing. I understand that ccp wanted as many players in corps as possible because players that joined corps stuck around more. But they seemed oblivious to the reason _why_ players in corps stuck around more. Players spent time and effort on eachother and built close relationships. (the whole thing where relationships in eve are stronger than any other game). That is no longer the case. I’d be interested to see how retention rate regarding joining a corp was affected by the awox changes. Case in point Incompetent and proud… ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/85 "2020-02-17T13:52:19Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Ccp just went with it on a whim pretty much. They said it was an ‘unintuitive’ mechanic but that was it. That is one hell of an assumption to make. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > There was no calling from the players to get rid of it. Instead players and at least one csm said it was a bad idea. I seem to recall some people asking for it, so I think you lie again. And if a CSM for the Goons declared it was a bad idea one would never question their motives perhaps? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > There was no data from ccp to suggest corps were reluctant to pick up new players because of awoxing. You are so sure about that… Do you know for certain or are you just deciding that this was the case based on your feelings. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I understand that ccp wanted as many players in corps as possible because players that joined corps stuck around more. But they seemed oblivious to the reason _why_ players in corps stuck around more. Players spent time and effort on eachother and built close relationships. (the whole thing where relationships in eve are stronger than any other game). This part is at least true. Though they do know that now and if this was the wrong thing to do, why has it not been removed? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > That is no longer the case. I’d be interested to see how retention rate regarding joining a corp was affected by the awox changes. No idea, but what I do know is that some people started to recruit with the friendly fire turned off, I know several. But that is just a few people I know. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/87 "2020-02-17T14:14:38Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > That is one hell of an assumption to make. That was the dev blog in a nut shell. ‘unintuitive’. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > And if a CSM for the Goons declared it was a bad idea one would never question their motives perhaps? The most vocal was DJ Funky Bacon. But it was understood that ccp weren’t listening when it came to awoxing (bundled in with other changes i admit). > In my personal opinion the CSM is under utilised by the CCP developers and releases/patch notes need to be released to the CSM for their feedback with sufficient time for alterations to be made before going to the public. Things like Phoebe and, most recently, the new changes to high-sec corp awoxing need to be looked at and opinions need to be listened to. The fact that the CSM are expressing their opinions and then the patch notes are released before the CSMs point of view is taken into account is not the best way for the CSM to be utilized. The CSM represent the voice of our community, or at least it should, and if they notice something that the players won’t like, they should be able to point that out and know they are being listened to. > **[CSM Drama between CCP Leeloo and CSM DJ FunkyBacon](https://evenews24.com/2015/02/02/csm-drama-between-ccp-leeloo-and-csm-dj-funkybacon/)** > > \*\*EDITORS NOTE: This article, while trying to remain factual, also includes the personal opinions of the author and does not reflect on the views held by EN24. \*\* In a \[…\] > [@Dracvlad](#): > > You are so sure about that… Do you know for certain or are you just deciding that this was the case based on your feelings. There was no data presented by ccp. But i myself started contacting corps and asking questions during the controversy leading upto the change. I posted replies on the old forums. (link coming…maybe). > [@Dracvlad](#): > > why has it not been removed? About as hard to swallow as admitting the rorqual change was a bad idea. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why is that no longer the case? Players getting awoxed find better corps or can be liberated (like so many want to do with Incompetent and proud). ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219/88 "2020-02-17T14:38:24Z")
I think that what you linked or detailed proved nothing. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Players getting awoxed find better corps or can be liberated (like so many want to do with Incompetent and proud). Except most of the targets of AWOX’ing was the CEO of said hisec corps in their more expensive ships. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-contribution-to-the-highsec-lobby-initiative/219219.md?page=5)