# My current feelings on why people dont stay after starting **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220 "2019-06-24T04:15:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/194 "2019-06-25T10:35:10Z")
Just so you know, I didnt flag you either. My new hand will be more powerful than ever before. Ffs do I have to get a cosmetic now? Well played Ccp ---
**Author:** ![Shai\_Hulud](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shai_hulud/32/279251_2.png) [@Shai\_Hulud](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shai_Hulud)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/195 "2019-06-25T10:36:04Z")
A lot of posts being reported here that shouldn’t… on both sides ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 10:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/196 "2019-06-25T10:45:07Z")
That’s because _some people_ can’t accept the things they’ve been claiming for four years have actually been ■■■■■■■■ all this time. And rather than having to “adapt” to the new situation, they rather shut down any voice that remind them of their failure. Those are the true carebears of eve online. “Even if the leader is wrong, the leader is right”. This in no way could lead to fascism, history says. You know, the kind of person that can affirm “the gap is in the imagination. There is a huge difference, but the gap is in the imagination”. > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > The gap is purely in your head. It’s the same gap everyone has everywhere, including real life. “the gap is in your imagination, unless I say so”. ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/197 "2019-06-25T11:03:37Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Ostrich Milk I just threw at him Eeewwww it’s all sticky! > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I genuinely had no idea ostriches could have milk. (non australian and non-native english language) LOL, totally not an australian thing, we have [Emu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu)s!.. sounds like some crazy Murican thing to me! > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > I’m starting to feel like this was a troll thread. Tis the best type of thread to make, gets **all** the comments! > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > There must be some new game made by people who aren’t assholes exploiting stupids while being deluded by corporate buzzwords. Unfortunately I do not believe there is, and I also believe you can thank “mobile games” for that. > [@Natocha\_Daisy](#): > > There should be an insta-pvp arena No, there really shouldn’t. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > I half suspect he was being ironic or something as my god, really? Are people really not staying because they can’t have a titian in week one as an Alpha? Complex gaming is doomed… Heh, the human race is doomed… I think they made a movie about it [once](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)… though i think if they’re dropping 50% of all sign-ups before they even play they need better captchas or have massive issues even the best NPE in the world isn’t going to fix. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > kthxbye BB. If you’re leaving, can I have ur stuff? 😃 > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > The mistake everyone else is making is giving the farmers the attention they require. Teh noisy thingy gets the lube! > [@Maekchu](#): > > The way the tutorial is structured, the most obvious ways to continue from there is to start mining or missioning. So much this! > [@Maekchu](#): > > So combine these two extremely boring activities, with no knowledge of what eve is/can be, are we really surprised no one wants to sit through that and quit? and even more this!! The RL friend that got me started decided to go the mining route, joined an ‘industrial corp’ and quit about a year later. > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > The gap is purely in your head. It’s the same gap everyone has everywhere, including real life. Young ones don’t get to compete with old ones, until they’re old enough to do so. Shhhh!!! or when the human race wipes itself out it will all b your fault!! \< points finger \> Kids these days, geez… remembers walking to school up hill **both ways** in the snow… and if there wasn’t any snow, we had to make it ourselves! Now get off my lawn!! \< shakes fist \> > [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Especially because lets face it, in the age of “Everyone’s a Winner” some people never learned how to lose with grace, which is an essential game skill for EVE. +1 to infinity & beyond!! > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > If you believe no new story linked to anything else has been added you really need to pay attention Wait wait wait… we have to _pay attention_ now too! omg what is this game coming to!!! > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > Supposedly originated with a “journalist” who didn’t understand “correlation does not establish causation”. If this is the claim, it’s false. > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Answering them, achieving nothing, or talking to reasonable people to move forward. Don’t do the first bit, definitely do the second bit… yes i am teh guilty of doing the first bit. > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > I think a better approach would be offering new players the choice to start in low sec. Nullsec already has enough players, lowsec definitely doesn’t and it’s a nice middle ground. I think this would be a good idea if it weren’t for Skill Injectors, you could then offer the choice to start in _any_ space and see how it all pans out. > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Ignoring the nonsense above … Aww but mah comments!!! > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > Experienced players “forget” how hard it is for new players to make enough money just to do missions and mine. For a while (well within the critical 5-15 hours) losing a frigate or destroyer _matters_ . Except at that early stage they are simply _playing the game_ and either having fun or not. When you ‘restart’ you are already aware of the various nuances involved… sounds kinda like an experienced player ‘forgetting’ things doesn’t it. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > it’s true that most players don’t understand the struggle of a new player. How is it true when **all** players **were** new players, you know, when they started? > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > It appears to be trying to communicate with me. > > Fascinating. I LOL’d 😃 > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Oh and also ban weapons We _totally_ need to nerf the living ■■■■ outta DPS, literally every ship I have lost has been due to _too much DPS_… so unfair! > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > They’re taking the scientific, psychologically abusive approach. Tis how you make money with video games! > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > What the hell? > > What was wrong with that?! Hmm, not sure but you’re replying to yourself… so if _you_ don’t know what you did wrong… then there’s no point in me telling you! 😃 lol > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Just so you know, I didnt flag you either. Tree loving hippies, the lot of ya!!! I flagged **everybody** … then the forums said "you have reported teh too many people, pls go away now and come back in 24hrs… fascist forums! Le Sigh, i am all forumed out now, but am pretty sure I win Eve forums for maximum number of quotes in one post! Who even knew you could do that!!! Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Natocha\_Daisy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/natocha_daisy/32/474632_2.png) [@Natocha\_Daisy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Natocha_Daisy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/198 "2019-06-25T11:04:57Z")
> [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](#): > > No, there really shouldn’t. I think it would be a great idea. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/199 "2019-06-25T11:06:45Z")
> [@Lux\_Model](#): > > Ended poorly. You can’t occupy both the high and low ground at the same time. Sadly they are more focussed on things like carebears are f a s c i s t s for example, or that people want total safety etc., and post like that. So their posting is always based on that premise and they already know the answer. I have them blocked but I read one of them because when you are looking at a thread their posts will show. It was pretty standard HTFU posting which means that they are pushing the same agenda. I think setting up the new players to be competitive in PvP by what I suggested above with level 4 fitting skills and of course the HAC ability either given or accelerated would get them able to get involved without waiting for so long. But they would have to be Omega. I am not going off on ganking or war decs or anything like that, I think the important part is making sure that they can be competitive in PvP in what is the most fun PvP ship type and yet one of the most warped of them mentioned me by name as if I had. Typical… ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/200 "2019-06-25T11:10:56Z")
You don’t even play the game though, so your ideas aren’t worth particularly much. And the reasons an instant PvP arena would be bad have been discussed all over this forum, the last one, and the one before that, and a basic search should find them. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/201 "2019-06-25T11:20:07Z")
That also was hot ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/202 "2019-06-25T11:24:01Z")
Is there a particular HAC that you feel is any more suited than another? I find the Sac a very comfy seat and have helped my new player friend to see its value, as its remarkably flexible. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/203 "2019-06-25T11:27:02Z")
It has to be the race that they started with, all of them have something about them and it would make them feel that they could compete without having to wait ages for training. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/204 "2019-06-25T11:30:48Z")
Ah yes. That would make sense lol. I keep forgetting that slog to Cruiser 5 is pretty steep for a new player ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/205 "2019-06-25T11:36:40Z")
what about downgrading the requirements for T2 guns and ships to the lvl IV of T1 ships ? AFAIK they will still need V to get the full bonuses. eg a hac needs racial cruiser IV, and medium guns T2 need racial guns IV + racial gun spe I It would make sense as HAC eg have a bonus per cruiser level, which ATM should be V to fly the ship, so it does not make sense now to have those bonus. If the issue is the alpha skillset, just remove the HAC skill from alpha skillset(IIRC it’s already not possible for alpha to train it) ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/207 "2019-06-25T11:40:13Z")
lol, that post. : D ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/209 "2019-06-25T11:43:53Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > what about downgrading the requirements for T2 guns and ships to the lvl IV of T1 ships ? AFAIK they will still need V to get the full bonuses. > > eg a hac needs racial cruiser IV, and medium guns T2 need racial guns IV + racial gun spe I IMO you could go a lot further than this. I don’t see any point in making newer players struggle to fit equipment into small hulls. It’s neither fun nor instructive. It feels like a pointless remnant from the past - was there was a time when Battleships were large ships in EVE, T2 didn’t exist, and it made sense to have four different versions of every unit, with different fitting constraints and capabilities? Or perhaps CCP has evidence that they make more by selling Skill Injectors to “whales” than they lose from all the other new players who don’t like the glacially slow startup process? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/210 "2019-06-25T11:48:24Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > You have been warned. And knowing is half the battle. The other half is… Crap I forgot to buy laser crystals ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/211 "2019-06-25T11:51:08Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > I don’t see any point in making newer players struggle to fit equipment into small hulls. It’s neither fun nor instructive. well most likely this should go away with tiericide. However I don’t agree with you in the general sense. Getting access to something is an achievement in itself, and should remain one. Having access to a titan on D1 would be a bad thing IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/212 "2019-06-25T12:01:55Z")
Anderson I meant only small ships for beginners: frigate- and cruiser-sized hulls, with no exotic capabilities. EVE has always looked to me like they originally decided to limit “capability escalation”, and created an environment for that with a cap on ship sizes. Then they appear to have switched to a version of the “MMO Hamster Wheel”, with ever-larger ships - but without removing the now-unnecessary complexity of the orignal. What’s left, along with the new-player issues of low ISK income and low SP in basic fitting skills, makes fitting ships much harder than it should be for new players. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/213 "2019-06-25T12:07:23Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > What’s left, along with the new-player issues of low ISK income and low SP in basic fitting skills, makes fitting ships much harder than it should be for new players. That’s were you’re wrong. It’s not about low SP income. It’s about low investment income. low SP players could make much more if they could use pirate ships. fitted with faction/deadspace/officer modules. a D1 toon could make a lot more money if he could fit a pimped orthrus and do anoms and escalations in HS. Vigilant for anoms, orthrus for escalations. the thing is, he would also lose that orthrus very fast. That’s why it’s better if you can’t invest more money until you learnt to use your ship correctly. (I tell you, it hurts to use a pimped worm to do that ded5 in LS, avoid the gate camps, refit, start the ded5… and get one shot in the last room) ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 12:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/214 "2019-06-25T12:17:53Z")
Your latest post seem to be past the "new-player issue into the “5 million SP” range. It might be correct, but it’s a bit outside what I’m currently interested in. What I’m interested in is what’s shown in Post 25: the graphic showing very fast drop-off between Day 1 (Logged on for the first time) and Day 7 - approximately 90% player loss. I think EVE has serious problems between Day 14 and Day 60 too, but IMO somewhere in that interval the pointless complexity of doing simple things stops being a _top 3_ issue. BTW: you have to wonder what those statistics would show if they include new Alphas created by experienced players, and those could be excluded from the later numbers (e.g. 30-days and later). ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/215 "2019-06-25T12:53:16Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > approximately 90% player loss. > > I think EVE has serious problems between Day 14 and Day 60 too I think that’s not an issue. Eve is a game with a strong identity. THIS is in total opposition with “appealing to the majority”. IMO the issue is not with “making most people appreciate the game”, but instead "making sure those who could appreciate at least one of its multiple facets are put in contact with this one facet. I would not go as far as “■■■■ farmers” because that’s a complete retard position, but I think that people who come in the game and only try one activity are at loss. IMO it’s not an issue with “being able to compete with other people” but rather “being exposed to many of the game activity”. IMO (again) the issue is not about the skills required to perform, but about the punishment when trying new activities. That’s why I think abyssal fleet are good, because you can go with newbros in calm filaments and make them learn how to play. I therefore believe that this new content is the correct way to increase retention in Eve. And you don’t need 5M SP to be able to do them. This goes along with the notion of “low investment newbros can’t enjoy the game well”. Of course since it’s only my opinion, feel free to disagree. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220.md?page=11)