# My current feelings on why people dont stay after starting **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220 "2019-06-24T04:15:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/83 "2019-06-24T17:38:31Z")
> [@Paul\_TheMerc](#): > > Throw in the fact that people tell you you need multiple alts to be competitive(cyno alt, PI alt, market alt, whatever, etc), a new player sees the gap become THAT MUCH larger. You don’t need any alts if you play with other people. The alts thing is for people who insist on playing solo in an MMO. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/84 "2019-06-24T17:42:45Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Are you really, though? No, she’s not, by the useful definition anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/85 "2019-06-24T17:54:05Z")
> [@Paul\_TheMerc](#): > > The gap is MASSIVE, and VERY apparent The gap is purely in your head. It’s the same gap everyone has everywhere, including real life. Young ones don’t get to compete with old ones, until they’re old enough to do so. Nothing can change this, especially in EVE, because skillpoints are meaningless when you lack practical knowledge and experience, which can not be taught by tutorials. That’s learned over time! Time these people are not willing to invest! It is without sense to assume that this imaginary gap has any meaning. In fact, thanks to Skill Injectors, this imaginary gap would be even worse, because not everyone can afford them. People who speak of this gap seek competition outside of their league. Two equal chars, one played by a noob and one played by a vet, will still not be equal. The problem is that there are too many players expecting too much, without putting any work into it … not the other way round. This is a bottomless pit. Even if CCP pushed all new players’ SP significantly, someone will still come and cry that it isn’t enough. > THIS MEANS, THAT THE REASON FOR THIS COMPLAINT LIES WITHIN THE PERSON HIMSELF, CAUSED BY FEELINGS OF INADEQUACY, WHICH WOULD ONLY GET WORSE WHEN EVERYONE’S EQUAL IN SP, DUE TO THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT ACTUALLY EQUAL! It’s stupid to complain about an imaginary gap that doesn’t matter in practise. In practise, a noob injecting himself to all-lvl-V is still a noob, who will still not be able to compete and who will keep blaming everyone else for his perceived inadequacies. Most of the people aren’t even trying to think things through. They don’t even know themselves. They just come up with whatever lies on the surface of their wants and blurt it out. They don’t care about anything but having their inadequacies compensated by CCP by having the game changed for them! It feels like everyone’s from the USA, which is seriously confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/86 "2019-06-24T17:57:22Z")
I suspect the use of the term to describe oneself is ironic in this case; much as it would be if I called myself a carebear.\* \*Technically I am one according to the traditional definition, because I prefer the non violent activities in Eve and don’t engage in violent interactions with other players. Not many of the hisec belligerent undesirables would call me one though, because my attitude is one of adapting to, not calling for nerfs to playstyles I don’t partake of. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/87 "2019-06-24T17:57:38Z")
The whole approach is wrong imo. If you want to increase the retention rate, you have to figure out what makes the people surviving the great filter stick, and strengthen what you find out, and make sure the NPE tells this to all new players. Asking new players why they quit is fruitless because they haven’t seen the real EvE and their reasons are all over the place giving little inside. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/88 "2019-06-24T17:59:14Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Even if CCP pushed all new players’ SP significantly, someone will still come and cry that it isn’t enough. SP being no substitute for experience; the same applies in real life, book-learning is not a substitute for experience (an electrical engineer with a degree could tell me how to my job, but without experience there’s very little chance that they could do it themselves) ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/89 "2019-06-24T18:00:00Z")
We really need to find better terms. “Farmers” seems to be the new “carebear” to me and, thinking about it, seems to have always fitted the description. I’d never call you a carebear simply because you don’t have the need to hide serious inadequancies emerging from the inside of your pants. The end of that sentence feels weird. ---
**Author:** ![Ramon\_Sohei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramon_sohei/32/466346_2.png) [@Ramon\_Sohei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramon_Sohei)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/90 "2019-06-24T18:04:54Z")
But proper training combined with SP is good substitute for experience. (Source: Gooniversity) ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/91 "2019-06-24T18:05:22Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > inside insight… sorry. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/92 "2019-06-24T18:06:29Z")
> [@Ramon\_Sohei](#): > > But proper training combined with SP is good substitute for experience That approach stops working in situations where it’s required to be able to think for ones self, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/93 "2019-06-24T18:06:36Z")
> [@Ramon\_Sohei](#): > > proper training Is how experience is gained, much as large groups like Goons are maligned they do a far better job of player retention than CCP. > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > That approach stops working in situations where it’s required to be able to think for ones self, though. Oh agreed, but hopefully Goons also teach their members how to think, not what to think. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/94 "2019-06-24T18:08:04Z")
Correct. Something autocorrect can’t fix. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/95 "2019-06-24T18:09:40Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > but hopefully Goons also teach their members how to think, Modern goons are carebears/farmers with serious inadequacies. They couldn’t teach them thinking if they tried. Anyhow… my day’s done for today. Have a good one, y’all! ---
**Author:** ![Ramon\_Sohei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramon_sohei/32/466346_2.png) [@Ramon\_Sohei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramon_Sohei)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/96 "2019-06-24T18:12:32Z")
Thinking does not matter as long as they follow orders from their FC. Which is what is required in fleet combat. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/97 "2019-06-24T18:14:09Z")
Cya Sol o7 ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/98 "2019-06-24T18:19:55Z")
> [@Oliver\_Delorean](#): > > Iv already gave up… Good riddance. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/99 "2019-06-24T18:58:49Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > New Eden’s society isn’t properly structured I feel like most people can agree with you on this, but I feel like there is a lot more to this idea than people realize. Perhaps you could elaborate on it, to help us understand the problem, from your perspective at least. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/100 "2019-06-24T19:03:41Z")
Solctice The post I replied to is full of “classic bittervet victim blaming”. You don’t know anything about the new players who leave within the first three days. You know too much to simulate their experience - what’s hard due to ignorance is trivial if you already understand EVE. Despite the craziness of parts of the “SP vs experience” sub-thread, there’s one thing about it that’s true, and relevant here: with the same (relevant) Skills and SP, an experienced player has a _big_ advantage over a new one. Fact: For most “solo” new players it takes _far_ too much time and _far_ too much effort to get to the point where EVE is fun (or even just bearable) to play. It’s _not the new players fault_ that they leave. It’s “EVE’s fault” that it selects for people with a high tolerance for boredom, and almost inhuman patience for researching trivia. An NPE isn’t the answer. None of them have been. They’re a bean-counter’s answer to the responses to asking the question “why did you leave so soon?”. The average answer to that will be “it’s too much hassle to get started”. The bean-counter: “if we just explain it carefully and positively enough they’ll love it” /lol. Wait several years; ask the same question(s), get the same answers; rinse/repeat. /lol. Here’s a small challenge (no correct answers, and no prizes though 🙂 Assume each player is prepared to spend 12 hours, (3 sessions x 4 hours) of their time, starting after after downloading EVE and getting it to run, before deciding to stay or leave. What should they do in those 12 hours? - Budget a _maximum_ of 2 hours for private research - but remember, every minute of that is dead time (zero-value, not negative value) in terms or the go/no-go decision. - Don’t exclude anything essential (e.g. it used to take a _long_ time just to create the first character - I hope it’s faster now) ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/101 "2019-06-24T19:17:28Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > “classic bittervet victim blaming” Snicker. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-current-feelings-on-why-people-dont-stay-after-starting/169220/102 "2019-06-24T20:06:44Z")
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