# My Experience: An Open Letter to CCP **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pve\ **Created:** [August 11, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432 "2021-08-11T14:40:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pan\_Dora1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pan_dora1/32/277067_2.png) [@Pan\_Dora1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pan_Dora1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/22 "2021-08-11T21:19:42Z")
> [@Soltis\_Legate](#): > > And they agree with you because of the way you wrote your whole O.P. So just because you didn’t “whine” or “rant” you’re okay by them, even though you’re saying just about the same damn thing that every other “whiner” has written in the past and got shut down and insulted for because - get this - the way they wrote their O.P was different than yours! yes…if he need to send an “I quit” message, at least do it with some self-respect. I don’t share the same sentiment or perspective. But he earned my respect. …Altho, I would reiterate that I’m willing to accept any stuff he is leaving behind. ---
**Author:** ![Pan\_Dora1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pan_dora1/32/277067_2.png) [@Pan\_Dora1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pan_Dora1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/23 "2021-08-11T21:22:26Z")
> [@QuakeGod](#): > > I’m quitting EVE as well… Can I have your stuff as well? 😜 > [@QuakeGod](#): > > Just kidding. Don’t let it stop you from sending me the stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Thayden\_Reid\_Nordic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thayden_reid_nordic/32/282134_2.png) [@Thayden\_Reid\_Nordic](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thayden_Reid_Nordic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 2:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/26 "2021-08-12T02:36:57Z")
My friend, I’m genuinely happy that you still find such enjoyment in it. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 2:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/27 "2021-08-12T02:42:42Z")
![Captura de Tela 2021-08-10 às 14.21.03](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/2/1/9215b961685e840b48da6aee323e158bf1983522.jpeg) tl dr but since @Destiny_Corrupted is posting steam games here is my favorites PS: played 24 hours of the poˆ% one just for the history… ofc ---
**Author:** ![Ptolomu\_k\_Findruk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ptolomu_k_findruk/32/261903_2.png) [@Ptolomu\_k\_Findruk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ptolomu_k_Findruk)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 3:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/28 "2021-08-12T03:20:24Z")
It has always been an honor to fly with you my friend. I don’t have anything to add to your letter, except simply that I endorse everything you said. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/29 "2021-08-12T04:47:34Z")
Removed some off topic posts. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/30 "2021-08-12T05:56:43Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/6/e/c6e58b19fd811f637833c8002be3ea8f6e6f6182.jpeg) > [@siegfried\_tahl](#): > > # Player types > > I heard many times in Talking in Stations, INN, CCP twitch videos how they oppose “fighter” and “builder” player types. That is pretty narrow view on player motivation. CCP\_Hellmar often brings up Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, a theory which has been falsified. At least in that the “hierarchy” part is based on the assumption that the lower needs must be satisfied before a person can achieve their potential and self-actualize, which is demonstrably false. > > > ## PLEASURE AND MOTIVATION IN VIDEO GAMES > > > > [Game Reward Systems: Gaming Experiences and Social Meanings](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268351726_Game_Reward_Systems_Gaming_Experiences_and_Social_Meanings) > > Many researchers have tried to clarify why people play video games. LeBlanc (2004) has proposed an MDA (mechanics, dynamics and aesthetics) model for game design analysis that includes a list of eight kinds of fun: sensation, fantasy, narrative, challenge, fellowship, discovery, expression, and submission (see also Hunicke, 2004). Lazzaro (2004) has listed four keys to creating emotion in video games as hard fun, easy fun, altered state, and a people factor. Bartle’s (1996) four player categories, based on multi- user dungeon (MUD) games, are achievers, killers, socializers, and explorers—a taxonomy that corresponds to player activities. Based on player responses to massively multiplayer online role playing games (MMORPGs), Yee (2007) has extended Bartle’s taxonomy to propose three major MMORPG gaming components: achievement, mmersion, and social interaction. According to Ryan et al. (2006), the pull of a game is sometimes associated with out-of-game effects. Using self-determination theory (SDT), they posit that the pull of games largely results from their ability to generate (at least in the short term) three key feelings of well-being: autonomy (sense of willingness), competence (challenge and feeling of effectance), and relatedness (feeling of connection with other people). Koster (2005) views game fun in terms of four categories: fun, aesthetic appreciation, visceral reactions, and social status maneuvers. In that taxonomy, un focuses on mastering a problem mentally—that is, recognizing new patterns based on our brain’s desire for stimuli. Thus, Koster’s definition of a good game is one that teaches a player all aspects of the game before the player stops playing. In the following sections, we analyze how reward systems provide pleasure and satisfying experiences by classifying rewards and playing activities, and relate reward mechanics to psychological theories. > > Famous [Bartle taxonomy of player types](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_taxonomy_of_player_types), which divides players into Killers, Achievers, Explorers, and Socializers according to their interest in acting/interacting with world/players. > > Famous [Self-determination theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination_theory) claims that Autonomy, Competence and Relatedness are innate and universal psychological needs. > > I highly recommend watching Ubisoft’s Jason VandenBerghe GDC2016 talk [Engines of Play: How Player Motivation Changes Over Time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg2GndSat1E) (1:02:12) where he connects [O.C.E.A.N.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits) personality model with SDT theory and Bartle’s taxonomy. By taking away sand from the sandbox CCP is taking a lot of autonomy, competence and relatedness away from players, thus destroying intrinsic motivation, player trust, long term planning, ability to establish dominance hierarchies, which supported serotonin reward system. Scarcity also crippled extrinsic motivation of players, which supported @CCP_Dopamine reward system. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/31 "2021-08-12T06:14:32Z")
EVE will never have what these other games with story have, to feel incorporated into the story, to feel immersed. Because EVE doesnt have technology, tools, and people behind the tools. There was CQ, but instead of being incorporated into scene generation with player as a center of events, even with DUST like shooting elements or exploration, it became space office you could sit in, for years, then removed. EVE PvE is largely only bare bones with text bubble in missions nobody reads after first time doing them. In cases where its a fleet site without any agent contacting you, its more complicated and things you have to pay attention to, to win encounter. These are largely more fun than solo missions. ---
**Author:** ![ntopios](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ntopios/32/253890_2.png) [@ntopios](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ntopios)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 8:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/32 "2021-08-12T08:53:34Z")
very good post .There is also the issue of the omega time price . Omega game time cost 15$ , That is rly high for some country’s .But it seams ccp is focused on US and central Europe costumers . ---
**Author:** ![May\_Q\_Cry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/may_q_cry/32/370362_2.png) [@May\_Q\_Cry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/May_Q_Cry)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/33 "2021-08-12T14:33:16Z")
> [@Thayden\_Reid\_Nordic](#): > > I’d see PvE in Eve Online completely overhauled, greatly expanded and refined, and become something truly immersive and rewarding You have been playing for 8 years and you haven’t yet realized the only reason PvE content exists is so PvP players have victims to kill? ---
**Author:** ![waltari](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/waltari/32/284175_2.png) [@waltari](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/waltari)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/34 "2021-08-12T16:53:21Z")
So you is saying whats being said prety much since 2009 and you hope that anyone up there gives a damn, you are trying to succeed where many of us have failed. Even when i appreciate the write up and i realy do, its sad to say, but its completely pointless waste of time from your side. CCP adopted the “nevermind the bollocks” doctrine quite some time ago. They keep filling up their ocean of promises in which they will very likely drown sooner or later anyway. Let them do what they do best, live in the irrelevant ancient dogma of EVE being great one-of-a-kind hardcore mass multiplayer game. They fail to realize that in the meantime the game turned into huge pile of garbage anyway. Whether you leave or dont makes no difference to them. ---
**Author:** ![Aishtar\_Sheran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aishtar_sheran/32/381331_2.png) [@Aishtar\_Sheran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aishtar_Sheran)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/35 "2021-08-12T17:17:16Z")
You have complained more against your RL than against EVE: then, the logic imposes to do a bit better there, solve some issue, then return to EVE with new eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/36 "2021-08-12T22:28:44Z")
See; the trolls dont really have anything concrete to say when you make a thoughtful and polite OP, just jibberjabber and empty ad homineneniminems. ---
**Author:** ![Vekku\_Dradis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vekku_dradis/32/463196_2.png) [@Vekku\_Dradis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vekku_Dradis)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/37 "2021-08-13T01:15:38Z")
EvE players watching what ccp has been doing since the Greed is Good / Summer of Impotent Rage™ fiasco and trying to tell themselves EvE isn’t going where they see it’s going… ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/1/6/51644d6278bf5851ff601ea79cdc021e359b8e1c.gif) CCP: [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/c/3/5c32d7761e73a27f1272b3f57cda0515a43b9891.jpeg "HATARI – HATRIÐ MUN SIGRA") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVbShUW6QBM) ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/38 "2021-08-13T12:58:01Z")
EVE pve is a calculation of incoming dps vs repair, dps vs time, isk/h vs losses etc. It’s not like you can use asteroids as cover or do trick shots. And it’s never going to be like that. With regards to storyline: How are CCP realistically going to give every single player in the game their own personal narrative to play through? And how are they going to justify the end of that narrative impacting everyone elses game whether they are willing or not? And then what? Run it again? And again? CCP gave players the opportunity to alter the landscape with trig invasions and it pissed half the playerbase off. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/39 "2021-08-13T13:37:56Z")
Seriously…, the Trig invasion had a major imbalance that meant that Caldari systems were so much harder to defend. Otela was the best example which was lost due to the NPC vs NPC side of the fight. If that imbalance had not been so evident then I am sure that Otela would not have fallen and more people would have accepted the results. I think you may be baiting here, I hope you are not. PS Before I get an emotive reaction from Trig players, I am not downplaying your active participation in any way, and any one reasonable would acknowledge this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Maxim\_Sharpe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maxim_sharpe/32/283083_2.png) [@Maxim\_Sharpe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maxim_Sharpe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/40 "2021-08-13T13:59:45Z")
I can see the appeal of a more story or lore based PVE, it gives things more meaning and perhaps allows one to make choices for their character. The problem is that when content like that is added to an MMO people complete it (or rush through it) and then they’re “done”. They will probably whine about how it “sucked” and “had nothing great” and then ask for more content, feverishly waiting for the next expansion which they are sure of will be “awesome”. Rinse repeat. That is how most MMO’s are set up: Add easily consumable content in the form of a story and some carrots on a stick until people have done it all and then sell them a new expansion with the next part. Their monetisation partly comes from “sell next expansion with content”, that’s what fuels it and that is what makes it possible so if there would be no financial reason to make that content (sell expansions) then MMO’s probably wouldn’t do it at all or at least not at the quality and frequency one would want. Yes it would be cool but after having completed it then there’d again be “nothing to do” and you’ll want “more”, which CCP can’t do because A) it’s not that type of game and B) EVE doesn’t have that type of monetisation. EVE is not like that, it’s about player created content and stories. On top of that because EVE doesn’t do paid expansions so there is no incentive for CCP to start creating these continued story or lore based content patches. ---
**Author:** ![Meditril](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/meditril/32/378591_2.png) [@Meditril](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Meditril)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/41 "2021-08-13T14:04:40Z")
From my point of view it seems like in the past (\>2 years ago) EVE went into the direction of getting easier… too easy for people who love some kind of challenge. But easy enough to attract a lot of new people. Unfortunately most of these new people are of the type: „Go for the next big thing“. These people however tend to be not sustainable from a long term income perspective for CCP as well as from content provision perspective for EVE. Therefore CCP decided to move back to get EVE more challenging. This naturaly made all the new people run away quickly as game got to less instant rewarding for them and you know the next big thing is always available in another corner of the Internet. So we are currently stuck in the middle of a transition as it turns out to be not so easy to get the challenge lovers back, as they are less switching the gears quickly just because something changes or new is available. Let’s hope CCP manages the transition over X-mas maybe by coming up with really great innovation bringing people back to the game. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/42 "2021-08-13T14:24:21Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > the Trig invasion had a major imbalance that meant that Caldari systems were so much harder to defend. The most controversial part of the trig invasion was niarja by far. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Meditril](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/meditril/32/378591_2.png) [@Meditril](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Meditril)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432/43 "2021-08-13T14:26:06Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > The most controversial part of the trig invasion was niarja by far. Just saying. True, but it was a very good change of the landscape. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/my-experience-an-open-letter-to-ccp/323432.md?page=3)