# Negative/toxic culture towards new players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 2, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377 "2024-09-02T20:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/143 "2024-09-03T20:38:38Z")
> [@Quadra\_Frost](#): > > A game where I have no control, don’t do the driving, but I’m fine with that - is, no offence, absolutely pointless. Let me speak more plainly, then. CCP makes the decisions. If those decisions affect negatively my game experience, I find a way around them, if I can. If I cannot do so, I have two options: do something else, or quit. There’s nothing wrong with cutting your losses, if that’s what’s necessary. I’m sure many a failed business owner regretted not pulling the plug before it was no longer there to be pulled. You may regard my cautious and circumspect attitude as defeatist (I’m not offended), but it is simply my nature. It has also proven not to be pointless for, despite the nerfs, here I still am, patient and persistent to the end (or until I’ve had enough…). ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/144 "2024-09-03T20:39:21Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > False dichotomy. > There can be dangers, that you can’t watch for. Not in high sec space. You’re right if the context was Pochven or Wormhole space. But even there you would be watching for the dangers that you can watch for. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/145 "2024-09-03T20:43:55Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > If I cannot do so, I have two options: do something else, or quit. Or you can complain about it. You don’t have only two options. That’s a false dichotomy. It’s a game. It’s totally normal to explain when something _feels_ wrong, because feelings is precisely the selling point of a game. Does not mean that the game devs will listen to your opinion, but it’s still a viable choice. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Not in high sec space. Yes, everywhere. There can be dangers that you can’t watch out for. Because you are not a bot. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/146 "2024-09-03T20:45:48Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Yes, everywhere. > There can be dangers that you can’t watch out for. Because you are not a bot. Before I risk ‘misinterpreting’ your post again and get flagged, can you explain what you mean by that? ---
**Author:** ![Quadra\_Frost](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quadra_frost/32/415160_2.png) [@Quadra\_Frost](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quadra_Frost)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/147 "2024-09-03T20:48:13Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > You’re right if the context was Pochven 100% agree. My other toon operates there. Albeit Star Citizen has taken most of my time in recent months. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/148 "2024-09-03T20:55:44Z")
I just answered before. Since you don’t seem to be aware : human can be active and focused only for short periods of time. You claimed that people just need to “pay attention and warp away before they get to you” to not be “humiliated” by a group of toxic players. Most people can’t constantly pay attention. They fall asleep, especially after a day of work. Bots can. What’s more, just because people are coming in catalysts to suicide gank you, does not mean you can see it. Only when they are in the system and \<14 AU can you notice them. And that’s why people play in highsec : because it does not require an intensive focus for extended periods of time. They play the sandbox to chill, not for a so-called “PVP” that is only a glorified seal clubbing. So yes, your “trick” actually only amounts to “be a bot”. And that’s why you have so many bots in NS. Now another of your post was how it was okay in NS and not in HS. Well, that’s the idea of NS and HS. There is a “higher security” in HS. That being said I don’t mine, it’s really too boring. Maybe things changed. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/149 "2024-09-03T20:58:27Z")
Edit: I found nothing offensive in the post below, and have edited it accordingly. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > human can be active and focused only for short periods of time. Well, some of us can remain focused for long periods of time. Perhaps you should see someone about your attention deficiencies. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Only when they are in the system and \<14 AU can you notice them. This is nonsense, and you should learn to play the game before complaining. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/150 "2024-09-03T21:00:22Z")
First, people who are looking to kill your ship are not ‘toxic’. They’re just looking for kills in a game that is partly about spaceship combat. Next, if people cannot pay attention they could pick up an activity that doesn’t require attention. I too sometimes make that mistake of trying to do something that requires more attention than I could give at the time and lose ships. That’s my mistake, not a problem of the game. If you cannot pay attention to the game after a while, maybe do something else? Most player can pay attention, at least for some time, and calling them all bots is a bit strange. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Now another of your post was how it was okay in NS and not in HS. > Well, that’s the idea of NS and HS. There is a “higher security” in HS. The difference between HS and NS isn’t that HS doesn’t require attention. The difference is that in HS you have a guaranteed response fleet to show up when you get attacked, while in NS you need to organize such a response fleet yourself. This makes HS a more casual place for players who don’t want to bother with such level of player organization. In either part of space _you_ have to play in such a way that you can survive until backup arrives, or get away before you need backup. These different parts of space aren’t so mechanically different after all. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > What’s more, just because people are coming in catalysts to suicide gank you, does not mean you can see it. Only when they are in the system and \<14 AU can you notice them. You could set known ganking groups to -10 and red, so they show up the moment they jump into local instead of the moment they are in warp towards you. Also if they’re at 14 AU in warp to you you still have plenty of time to get away. … if you were paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/151 "2024-09-03T21:01:54Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > people who are looking to kill your ship are not ‘toxic’. This is really the fundamental issue here. Some people have this absurd notion that PvP is griefing - and that’s kind of absurd. CCP needs to do a “PvP is ok” theme event. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/152 "2024-09-03T21:03:49Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Or you can complain about it. You mean whine? Not my thing. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > You don’t have only two options. That’s a false dichotomy. I was speaking subjectively, Stefnia. I discount any and all other options in this context. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > It’s a game. It’s totally normal to explain when something _feels_ wrong, because feelings is precisely the selling point of a game. It’s certainly normal for _some people_ to behave in this way, but not everyone does. You often generalise in this way, Stefnia. I do not behave in this way. If something _feels_ wrong, I investigate it until I locate its source, then, if no action is required, I move on. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > feelings is precisely the selling point of a game. Not entirely so, for me. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/153 "2024-09-03T21:15:55Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > First, people who are looking to kill your ship are not ‘toxic’. They’re just looking for kills in a game that is partly about spaceship combat. So what ? Are you again misrepresenting my point ? Have you ever done that already (yes Gerard, you have) > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > if people cannot pay attention That’s not it. It’s HUMAN to only be able to pay attention for repetitive tasks for a small amount of time. Now there are ways to be focused, like talking to other people, making exercise. But people don’t play a game like Eve for the competition. Whatever you do, your brain will start losing attention. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > If you cannot pay attention to the game after a while, maybe do something else? So back to your trick being, be a bot. Only bots can maintain attention on low activity tasks for infinite amount of time (even above 30 min is already difficult for human) > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > isn’t that HS doesn’t require attention. No, it requires LESS attention. You are supposed to have MORE security so less need to protect yourself. That’s the whole idea of “risk and reward”. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > You could set known ganking groups to -10 and red And so the other people still won’t be visible. Also even if they are red, you don’t know what they are in. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > You mean whine? Not my thing. No, I mean complain. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > I was speaking subjectively, Stefnia. I discount any and all other options in this context. Does not change your choices. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > I do not behave in this way. If something _feels_ wrong, I investigate it until I locate its source, then, if no action is required, I move on. Sure, if you have infinite time. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/154 "2024-09-03T21:17:39Z")
> [@Quadra\_Frost](#): > > Did AGs primarily operate to be “white knights”? Some perhaps, particularly those who rep’d victims under attack. Not all. Some worked with kill-rights, but this a BS chalkboard that’s easily manipulated or too expensive. Once tag-pimping got traction, the AG game loop ended. HS is now an unattractive, out of balance, gank simulator that is not only costing CCP the players from this loop, but it also means that experienced toons can stamp their authority on newcomers without consequence. It’s got so brain-dead that selling “mining permits” to those who felt overwhelmed became a boasting right. Yeah, pitiful, I know. It’s a terrible product look, shameful actually. It’s also why this simulator is now in maintenance mode: the mobile app is dead, FPS shotgun-to-the-moon… “Obi-wan Kenobi, you’re my only hope”, and “let’s go fishing” for worthless Trig loot. It’s overdue for CCP to end the stupidity of HS pirates being Concord cronies. They’ll restore more faith in their brand with balanced decision-making. Make PvP equitable - HS piracy pays, but there are consequences too. Real “PvP’ers”, not gloat bears basking in CCP’s clueless direction-taking, would want this. This is just meaningless word salad hyperbole. It’s a classic case of someone using as much flowery language as possible to hide not really saying anything meaningful or true. I mean, what the heck is ‘tag pimping’ even supposed to be ? The fact that you have to invent a phrase that I cannot find anywhere else on the internet other than this thread only serves to further the hyperbole. Then you throw in totally subjective opinion along with ‘gank simulator’, and with objections to things that have been a fundamental part of the game since it began. Pointless and meaningless references to Star Wars…and then the flowery hyperbole ends without you actually having said anything of substance. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/155 "2024-09-03T21:20:32Z")
This thread is reaching levels of autism that shouldn’t be possible… ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/156 "2024-09-03T21:28:19Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Next, if people cannot pay attention they could pick up an activity that doesn’t require attention. I too sometimes make that mistake of trying to do something that requires more attention than I could give at the time and lose ships. That’s my mistake, not a problem of the game. Paying attention is precisely how I’ve repeatedly gotten expensive ships through Uedama without being ganked or even needing ‘anti gankers’. With a little practice one can do it without even being noticed. But people get ganked because they don’t set gankers to red, don’t scout , and they don’t use a simple tool like killboard to see where the gankers are or whether they are even online. And they then end up calling the game ‘toxic’ to cover for their own incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/157 "2024-09-03T21:29:32Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > So back to your trick being, be a bot. > Only bots can maintain attention on low activity tasks for infinite amount of time (even above 30 min is already difficult for human) If you’re a bit creative you could think of other tricks to pay attention that do not involve breaking the EULA. For example you could turn on some music, open the ingame chat and communicate with others while you’re playing and paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Quadra\_Frost](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quadra_frost/32/415160_2.png) [@Quadra\_Frost](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quadra_Frost)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/158 "2024-09-03T21:29:43Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I mean, what the heck is ‘tag pimping’ even supposed to be ? ROFL. Ok, Mr Hyperbole. Wake me up after your chronic YAWNware. You bored me the 1st time, but pretending not to understand a simple phrase (because you need an internet mentor to assist) while also pretending to be a God of understanding perfectly explains your confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/159 "2024-09-03T21:33:26Z")
> [@Quadra\_Frost](#): > > pretending not to understand a simple phrase No pretense here, Quadra; I don’t understand it either. Can you help? ---
**Author:** ![Quadra\_Frost](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quadra_frost/32/415160_2.png) [@Quadra\_Frost](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quadra_Frost)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/160 "2024-09-03T21:43:51Z")
Ask Mr Hyperbole - he’s actively scanning the net for mentors. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/161 "2024-09-03T21:46:13Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > And so the other people still won’t be visible. > Also even if they are red, you don’t know what they are in. Simply not true. In my corp, there is so much intel available in the intel channel that a fly can’t land on a station between Torrinos and Dodixie without there being a report on it. Reports will say exactly who is ganking and where they are and how many gankers there are. Yet for some bizarre reason a lot of people simply don’t have the intel window open. In fact there’s regularly more people in the ganker chat channel than there are in the corp intel channel. You can lead a horse to the water…etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377/162 "2024-09-03T21:51:30Z")
I’d prefer to receive the definition from someone who both understands the phrase and knows in which context/s to apply it. If that isn’t you, you only have to say so. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/negative-toxic-culture-towards-new-players/460377.md?page=9)