# Nerf Ganking Megathread **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [March 7, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004 "2021-03-07T02:12:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 276
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5633 "2022-08-03T20:35:11Z")
Let me tell it to you straight, I don’t really care what you think of me. If it is being built up or eroded or what. What I am telling you is, is 💩 -ing on pepople’s playstyles is just a dick move. For any game. Eve, or otherwise. Let gamers be gamers. You’re the one coming into the community, and bringing “correct morals” or “actual risk” like so many other players do, and try to impose ideological mindsets and _persuade_ people. What myself and others do, is _play the game_. Do the mechanics let you activate aggressive modules in high sec? Press the button, play the game. That bother you? Then figure out how to counter-play. _In the game_. Trying to come and convince the rest of us that _our button presses are immoral_ or _not actually risky_ is just being, objetively, a meanie butt hole to your fellow players. You’re earning the pushback you are getting. I did not call you names. I only identified what I said earlier – alts that troll and make low quality posts – and provided you _candid feedback in the moment_. If you can’t handle that candid feedback, fine. If you think my opinion is 💩, fine. But it’s not about me or you, it’s about generally treating players pushing buttons not like 💩 just for playing a game with the _intended mechanics_, and it’s what you’re trying to do. Not a good look for _any_ person in any game. ---
**Author:** ![Geminus\_Duolphus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geminus_duolphus/32/329938_2.png) [@Geminus\_Duolphus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geminus_Duolphus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5634 "2022-08-03T20:42:17Z")
I’m not criticising you for pushing back I’m criticising your low effort trolly response which smack of hypocrisy. I didn’t put a value judgement on it I just pointed out that both parties enjoy are risk adverse play style when one part was criticising the other as being ‘care bears’ which is a pejorative. That was a ganker that started that criticising the other persons playstyle. I merely pointed out that both parties are as risk adverse as eachother so if you are going to call them carebears then you ought to consider that you are carebears too. The only group that I have outwardly derided are the toxic salt miners which you yourself have said we all should want to go away. You say you don’t care what I think of you but you sure spent a lot of time telling me how you are better than me because you post on a ‘main’ and I post on my alt. In actuality I don’t have a main I use most of my accounts for different things. I don’t even pvp that much on one account over another because different accounts have different skills. This account is the one I use to scavenge and shuttle stuff about. It used to be a mining account but I don’t do that anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5635 "2022-08-04T00:28:24Z")
> [@Geminus\_Duolphus](#): > > Generally speaking if I don’t like someone I don’t make time for them. And gankers are supposed to be the pricks. Guess common courtesy is lost on the emotionally volatile. I give a good fight even if I don’t like the person. That is a show of true sportsmanship. ---
**Author:** ![Geminus\_Duolphus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geminus_duolphus/32/329938_2.png) [@Geminus\_Duolphus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geminus_Duolphus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5636 "2022-08-04T00:40:38Z")
If I don’t like the person but it was a good fight then of course I give a good fight. If it’s a hollow gesture then no I wouldn’t. Sportsmanship starts before the fight. There are people out here flying around in blobs only taking hideously one sided fights like they were shooting fish in a barrel thinking a gf in chat suddenly makes the whole thing good sportsmanship. Common curtesy would be to have the decency to acknowledge when you are on the side with the advantage. However that is I guess lost on people who think manners are a formality and using them hollowly is the same thing as using them and meaning them. Maybe you do mean it when you catch the three day old noob in their vexor while flying the Loki with a billion isk pod and utterly annihilating him. He’s sitting there wondering what was good about that fight that leaves him feeling the gulf in skill to entering solo pvp is insurmountable. It would be better to say unlucky to him and offer some words of encouragement. However no, you’ve said Gf you are all good… You’ll now tell me how you do all those things in which case why are you willfully miss interpreting a thread where i said courtesy, manners, politeness is more conplex that just saying please, thankyou, good fight like an automaton. Gg forum warrior, you really got me there with that quote… ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 1:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5637 "2022-08-04T01:01:13Z")
When did the the **Cat** alyst become the go to Destroyer for ganking Highsec Minners? ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 1:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5638 "2022-08-04T01:01:15Z")
There are a lot of “you” statements in there and assumptions on my RL character without really knowing anything about me. Says a lot right there, buddy. I have been know to catch noobs unaware, toss them the GF, and then send them isk and talk with them at length about what happened, what went wrong and link resource after resource to them so they learn more about this great game, and teach them instead of leaving them high and dry and resentful. But one really wouldn’t know that about me, especially if they come in with a holier-than-thou bitter attitude. ---
**Author:** ![DKslopoke](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dkslopoke/32/487122_2.png) [@DKslopoke](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DKslopoke)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5639 "2022-08-04T06:58:34Z")
THIS , lmao! ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5640 "2022-08-04T07:04:48Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Look at the alts coming out of the woodwork to show their depth of deep, considered, well-thought out, rooted in evidence, and against the grain opinions. Thank lo I do have in-depth knowledge of the game and my rooted evidence that ganking is bad, is about as well rooted you community is at proving it is good… > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Meanwhile I’m sitting here on my main posting shallow, bad, and unsupported-by-evidence mainstream meta ideas like [Siege Green hurt small groups](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/siege-green-structure-updates-now-avaialble-for-testing/357746/750) which would have been 100x better had I made it with an anonymous alt so I don’t live in fear of every major CSM and Nullbloc coming after me for poo-poo-ing their idea and standing up for the little guy. There is nothing wrong with alts, they are just as important to the game as a main. You could clearly see this in the community beat publication of main and alt play time. It would be like saying all the holding corps in Eve are not legit and only there because people in the real corp don’t want to face wardec. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Imagine all the _really_ controversial opinions of mine y’all miss out on because I’m not posting with an alt. Make supers have an ISK cost upkeep. Increase sov bills exponentially based on number of systems held. And so on. That’s how it works, right JJ and Geminus? You can have controversial opinions lo, it is okay from our side because we are mature adults that can handle real life. You on the other hand, get flustered and all mad and want to sick mecs on people and try do something to them because of a forum post. It is okay we are two different people, one that needs to accomplish something in Eve they are lacking in real life and those that play Eve for the fun of the game. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5641 "2022-08-04T07:27:17Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > **Q1-** No, we can’t agree. The problem isn’t that ganking is fundamentally broken. I believe the problem is two fold -players who have incompatible tastes, and players who respond to challenge and adversity by lobbying for their enemies to be nerfed, rather than by getting better at the game. Shipwreck don’t give me BS anymore, this is the weakest cry baby stuff I have heard in a long time. Challenge by adversity, have gankers go do real PvP on ships that shoot back, and watch the salt flow through the forums. Adversity lol what a joke. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > **Q2** - What exactly are we agreeing on -The need to compromise? I know this might sound unreasonable, there’s the argumentative fallacy known as the argument to moderation. It’s the idea that the truth is supposed to lie in a compromise between two positions. The problem, however, is that gankers have already been forced to compromise… and compromise… and compromise. And the Jedi are never happy. It’s never enough. CCP always needs to go further. And that’s why you sometimes hear gankers complaining about one more nerf. In my honest opinion, ganking is already in a terrible spot, the challenge and risk of highsec is laughable, it is way to easy for players to optimize towards boredom, and some players just straight up have mutually exclusive values and priorities (i.e. see the people that want PvE only zones/servers). The only thing people want is balance, I don’t think that is an extreme request. Balance the isk/reward as ganking and little to no risk. All your fallacies should be replaced with “in my opinion”. You don’t hear gankers complaining because it is still unbalanced. Boredom? You mean like going out and shooting something that can’t shoot back? > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > So, no, this is not a suggestion. I’m do not think that gameplay around ganking is horrible, Agree it just needs to be tightened up a bit, and could be done easily. For example, you are causing a criminal act, you only get 30% drop chance as an example. Why should you get reward to be a criminal? Or go down the long road of pirates but gankers don’t want that either, they want to bake cakes and eat them, but call themselves successful bakers. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > and unique style of game play that I want to see preserved. Unique in as a referral link with maybe a week of training if that and you are shooting baby seals? It adds no value to the game, and only drives people away from the game. Gankers want to be PvP pilots but they can’t graduate from the baby activities of shooting things that can’t shoot back. Mostly because of their personalities and it is toxic in a lot of cases and drives new players from the game. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > **Freighter Fits** > Meh, I think the real problem with freighters right now are their price, but I suppose I’m not opposed to more fitting options. Lord knows, I would kill for the ability to fit an MWD to my freighters. Of course, increased fitting options would need to be balanced, so that it doesn’t result in ganking becoming collateral damage. Agree Freighters could use a few slots based on the cost, they are the most nerfed ship in the game if you compare slots to cost. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > **Crime Index** > I’m open to the idea, but my support would be contingent on it also making it easier to gank in systems with low ganker activity, and it all being balanced in such a way that it doesn’t significantly hurt ganking. I could also get on board with this, and still like the idea of make anti ganking a LP making job so that guns and hunt down those scared to shoot at guns. I think it would make it fun and give some counter play to ganking. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > You say that you aren’t against ganking, but between this, the suggestion to kill suicide ganking as we know it, and approaching the issue as if it’s ganking in that is in need of fixing, I can’t help but feel like I’m getting some mixed signals here. Ganking has already received an absolute ton of “fixes” over the years. Maybe it’s time for players to either figure out how to effectively use the strats and tactics that are already available to them or go play something that doesn’t feature UPvP. Ganking removed or balanced I would be happy either way. Since no one in the ganking community is creative enough to have thoughts or come up with ideas, well, all the ideas land on those that want to balance, restructure, or remove it from the game. Even you haven’t come to the table with any ideas at all for balancing ganking. Just a bunch of BS about Jedi and fallacies and all that other crap that is okay, but doesn’t solve anything, and you can’t even come sit at the table with the idea. Because OMG what if it was wrong…well a conversation should allow people to be wrong and discuss it. Your closing pictures are BS, too Shipwreck, they are just the one-sided story we can never get past. Oh hey everyone, I do it from both sides of the gun, I am in the middle neutral, if you don’t want to get ganked, for one of the lowest paying activities in-game, you must be the most active on. Yeah and the world will keep turning. I am still hoping that the Chineses server is successful and it is brought here for a fresh update and we can put the rest all these forum post. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5642 "2022-08-04T07:29:44Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Oh hey another alt giving us a JJ-style [triple-post](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5589) full of walls of text. Just because your mind can’t think big doesn’t mean ours can’t. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5643 "2022-08-04T07:36:10Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > And the other half of carebears believe that ganking shouldn’t net any profit at all. So essentially carebears will never be satisfied till two contradictory conditions are met. Which brings us to the real agenda of them - remove U-PvP from the game completely. Yeah why not, I mean the vast majority of people live in high sec. From those numbers we should shrink low sec and null sec and create more space for high sec carebears. From a business standpoint this is what should be done. > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > And as we know from AO, this won’t end up with highsec. For example lets say that CCP will cater towards carebears once more and make that change that is now on Chinese test server. Assuming that this change will be offset by the fact that you will no longer be able to do anything wortwhile in highsec and it will force players, who wants to do their high-end PvE or mining again, into lowsec, then the whole debate about U-PvP starts again because “other players are harassing me and prevent me from doing what I want to do”. This is what I am hoping to happen, it comes from China to UK server. I think it would be great and it would kill this discussion altogether. One, if more people wanted more dangerous activities maybe null and low and WH would start growing in population again. And a carebear couldn’t start the conversation over, because the answer would be go back to high sec, end of the argument. I liked the map layout more than anything, would do a lot of things I would see as correct in the game and have wanted for a very long time. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5644 "2022-08-04T07:38:17Z")
> [@Kenrailae](#): > > Congratulations, we finally got to the crux of the issue: > > “Play the game my way, or go play some other game.” > > With the player count being what it is already, I wish you luck with that strategy 🙂 @Kenrailae, the unfortunate part is these people just don’t get it. Trust me, I have tried, and it is all sunshine on their side, I mean making people, not like the game is what I think their goal is sometimes. It makes them happy in life, which is a condition. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5645 "2022-08-04T07:42:24Z")
But…Im not a ganker and I dont think it needs rebalanced. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5646 "2022-08-04T07:43:44Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Compromise? When the gank-haters goal is to remove ganking from the highsec completely and they won’t budge an inch from that goal? That is kinda hard to do you know. I have given a dozen idea and none of them are liked by the ganking community at all. What do you expect? Easier to move all want a be PvP to low and make them grow up and do real PvP. > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Several of us, psychopatic gankers, already shown a willingness to do some compromise. I for one consder -10 security chars being able to dock in npc station stupid also. But that is never enough for your kind. And it will never end until ganking is gone forever and you know it. Did you know the majority of PvP players do not do it for isk? If ganking is closely related to PvP, I don’t think it is but your sides argument, then why don’t you do ganking at a loss? It isn’t the profit it is the seek of the kill right? > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > There cannot be compromise if one party never intents there to be one. And it is not our party. Furthermore over the years there were only nerfs to ganking and hardly any buffs (and when something indirectly buffed ganking it was shortly revertad after). So right now, there isn’t time to nerf ganking even more. Not without compensation buffs anyway. Why would you buff the crappies part of the game? Why would you spend any time at all trying to make that gameplay better? Ganking is still not balanced and needs more nerfs, until it barely makes isk, or loses isk it is how it should go. Then I might be more willing to bend and call ganking PvP. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5647 "2022-08-04T07:45:14Z")
1. People are playing a game they like. 2. Some other people show up and don’t like the game the way it is. 3. The other people lobby to have the game changed to appeal to themselves more and the existing players less. 4. The other players then assert that the suggestion that they go play a game they do like instead is somehow an indication that the old guard is sadistic. Sound about right to you? ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5648 "2022-08-04T07:45:37Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > What a nonsense. We play by the rules. The game was from very start designed to allow what we do. It is you who come 20 years later and desperately cry for this to be removed. > > Yoru argument is like if I came to The Sims forum to start advocating that ganking should be possible and then throwing everyone who will be against that idea this line of yours lol. I have mentioned and trying bring it up to the community a hundred times, this isn’t 20 years ago, so we need to change or watch the game go to nothing. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5649 "2022-08-04T07:46:24Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Did you know the majority of PvP players do not do it for isk? If ganking is closely related to PvP, I don’t think it is but your sides argument, then why don’t you do ganking at a loss? It isn’t the profit it is the seek of the kill right? Lolz please. Check first who I am and what I do. I earned 0 ISK by ganking and I already spent over 2 bil for ships, fits and tags. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5650 "2022-08-04T07:49:50Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > How exactly is ganking risk adverse? > > Ganking a Marauder in highsec has guaranteed loss, and is much harder than blapping the same Marauder in nullsec with a larger fleet and no loss. > > This was a very easy kill, with negligible risk: Ganking is near to almost zero risk and if anyone knows this you should. Why are you playing your ignorant card here? I hope I see it play out below. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5651 "2022-08-04T07:50:40Z")
I dunno I was just told elsewhere that the new guard were in the minority and so Im not sure who or why they are lobbying anything. Id imagine writing directly to CCP would be more effective than arguing on the forums with people who are enjoying things the way they are. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/5652 "2022-08-04T07:58:37Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > But…Im not a ganker and I dont think it needs rebalanced. Everyone plays a different play style so thinking it doesn’t need a rebalance only shows you have a different game style, and what parts might rub up against ganking may make things exciting for you and no issues with that. JJ [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004.md?page=275) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004.md?page=277)