# Nerf Ganking Megathread **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [March 7, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004 "2021-03-07T02:12:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 354
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 11:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7456 "2022-09-03T23:52:33Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > I can’t play LoL for whatever reason. What’s crazy is I used to love the actual DoTA it came from in WC3. I couldn’t get into Heroes of Newearth or Dota2 even though they are the same game. I think there is only enough room for one shitty moba in most peoples hearts. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7458 "2022-09-03T23:56:59Z")
I still play it, but it worse and worse each year. About 4 years ago or so they completely shutdown official boards. They no longer officially talk to players maybe except reddit. That was first nail into coffin. Ever since they are making the game faster, more “bursty” and balance went downhill completely. Yet at the same time they added new mechanics that prevents you to finish the game too quickly, so what now happens is that you are stuck in game that cannot be win with other players who flame each other and are toxic as fun, mostly also making you a hostage by intentionally not agreeing with surrender to punish you and the opponent team is unable to end the game by force or they take is slowly because they know that attempting to force the end wouldn’t work. This year it seems that while I was taking a break due to the shittiest class balance ever (mages and enchanters are way too useless and free kills with almost no impact on game outcome) they now removed the “post-end-lobby chat” probably due to the toxicity that was happening there. Now to involve in that chat you must click into it and hit enter to see what others type or to type yourself. Which essentially killed in completely and ppls no longer talk after game ends and move onto next game. The actual toxicity in the game increased heavily from about 10 games I played in last 2 weeks. And the above is imo the culprit. Players no longer can vent the frustration or anger after the game so they do it in next game they play, trolling or going afk when someone does a mistake that then results in automatic loss (which still take 25 minutes to end because they will refuse to surrender as well). Not sure how many players play it these days, but I think it is still highly popular due to the short queves. RIOT also increased their portfolio with 3 related games to LoL - Teamfight Tacticts, an autochess based on LoL champions which is really great and fun, Valorant which is team fps like Overwatch (this wasn’t exactly a hit, but it is still running and players are still playing it) and latest addition was Runeterra which is a card game based on LoL lore. Oh and e-sports are only going up, the changes to game made it less fun to play, but more fun to watch which was probably their intent. LoL has several leagues which I used to watch too ocassionally and world championship. Overall the bussiness is going well for RIOT and while the player counts might have go down a bit, it is not visible and noticeable. I suppose they are successful in hooking new and new players. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7459 "2022-09-03T23:57:33Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > you get overly emotional about a video game You are the one spamming the forum at length. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7460 "2022-09-03T23:58:37Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Then I’m as young as I feel since I don’t mine! I’ve been told by EvE players that I’m 12 years old. A girl, and I’m serving multiple life-time sentences in prison because I blow up pixilated space ships. Does that count towards the demographics? ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7461 "2022-09-03T23:59:11Z")
Sry, what was that? I’m too busy making false acct’s in Starborne for all the forum trolls to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7462 "2022-09-04T00:02:08Z")
“Shrink, I want to kill. I mean,… I wanna,… I wanna kill! KILL! I wanna,… I wanna see… I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.” And I started jumpin up and down yelling, “KILL KILL” and he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, “KILL! KILL!” My bio. Gets a few chuckles. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7463 "2022-09-04T00:02:47Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > > > I happen to think it’s meaningless to call EVE pay to win and I’m most certainly not an Aiko fan. > > It depends on if you’re interested in seeing any change. I’ll continue to call it P2W trash until CCP starts to focus on improving the game rather than pushing sales of packs. Were at the first point I can remember where even third-party tool devs are jumping ship at a phenomenal rate. Response and quote have nothing to to do with eachother? CCP have announced changes, we just had an update on the upcoming faction war changes. I personally would rather they take their time and get it right than see them rush out “improvement changes” just to be seen to be doing something. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7465 "2022-09-04T00:26:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re joking, right? They kept doing basically nothing while making noise about huge upcoming changes and a big reveal at fanfest, then what came out of it? No I’m not joking. Like I said, they’ve given us an update, they’ve told us they are still working on it. It’s not just about pvp that pays. It’s about PVP/PVE that lets you see changes in the universe based on your effort. There are whole corps dedicated to FW for no other reason than roleplay. Judging by your over simplified view of FW it’s not important to you but it is important to plenty of people. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Meanwhile missions haven’t been revamped in ages, mining is still a fairly inactive playstyle, industry is still just click-and-wait and PI is still a massive ballache to setup and zero fun to play. Hell they could replace PI with a ripoff of a mobile “idle” game and have a better experience than they have now. You know what would happen if they changed all those things? Half the fan base would complain. That’s the problem. EVE currently works. Developing EVE right now is a bit like landscape gardening a minefield. They are as likely to upset people as make it better so it has to be done very slowly and carefully. Just look at gate rats. Such a simple change that I happen to love but just as many people hated. Now imagine implementing more complex changes. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7466 "2022-09-04T00:33:23Z")
Another wall of text from Lucas. 😴 ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7468 "2022-09-04T00:52:52Z")
Ok so the whole premise of the majority anti ganking argument is this. Ganking is somehow bad for new player retention. Let’s put aside the lack of data, the lack of actual newbeans coming forwards and complaining, the lack of looking at the otherside where ganking might actually encourage players to join and stay. Let’s imagine this is a real problem. What if we get CCP to finally define exactly where being a new player ends. Step one. With that defined we protect those newbros. They get clear in game warnings that tell them when their safety is up. Wether that is because they go to low sec for the first time or they finish all their career missions and the SOE epic arc, or they have been actively playing for X amount of time. Step Two. How do we protect them if ganked? We remove concorde responses for them and instead we have a similar response from an Air fleet that shows up and puts a magical logi beam on them stopping any further damage. They get some messages to click through explaining what just happened and what will happen once they lose their new player status. Gankers keep their ships. NPCs drop replacement ammo for the gankers with some message thanking them for the demonstration and the newbeans is educated about the potential dangers of high sec. We educate them better about the different kinds of space. As a career mission they get to take uniqu filaments that take them to fake low sec, npc null, wh, pochven and sov null systems that explain the basic mechanics about gate guns and ess and so on. Step three. We instigate actual new player corps that the players only stay in until they lose their protected status. GMs would be active in these corps offering advice. Step four. There in four easy steps we’ve solved “the problem” without needing to actively nerf ganking. Now let’s discuss how this might be problematic or open to abuse. I promise I won’t call anyone stupid or just plain wrong because they have a counter view point. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7469 "2022-09-04T01:09:01Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > What if we get CCP to finally define exactly where being a new player ends. They’ve already done this, a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7470 "2022-09-04T01:09:10Z")
I just read your forum bio, and my God! ROFLMAO! That is the best! ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 1:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7471 "2022-09-04T01:10:23Z")
Ooh what is it? Because the defenition thrown about on here seems a bit wish washy. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 1:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7472 "2022-09-04T01:25:24Z")
I can’t take credit. It’s a line from a song. You have to be old and from the US to get it. [Arlo Guthrie - Alice’s Restaurant Massacree lyrics - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPx2t7xoF1k) Time stamp 8:35. It’s a long song. ---
**Author:** ![Sere\_O\_Asis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sere_o_asis/32/374997_2.png) [@Sere\_O\_Asis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sere_O_Asis)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 1:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7474 "2022-09-04T01:33:27Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Where is that stated? It’s most certainly not in any of the original promotional material and all iterations of the game have had a main focus on player-driven narratives in a sandbox with an array of playstyles. “HURR DURR PEE VEE PEE” is just your preference, not CCPs core design. It’s stated here, back in 2005: _we often piss people off, but it’s a necessary evil with PvP games, you always have to be on your guard for imbalance and as a result, we lose a lot of customers for it._ —Nathan Richardsson, senior producer on the _EVE_ project in early 2004 Mr. Richardsson unambiguously calls EVE Online a _pvp_ game. Full article here: [Interview: Evolution and Risk: CCP on the Freedoms of EVE Online](https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/interview-evolution-and-risk-ccp-on-the-freedoms-of-eve-online) @Gix_Firebrand does have some justification for his position on pvp being a core design feature of the game. Also, from the 2005 article: “The founders had two passions which they wanted to join,” explained Richardsson. “The sci-fi feel and vastness of space from _Elite_ and the social interaction of massively multiplayer and player vs. player gaming from _Ultima Online_ . I should also add that they were quite active PvPers in _UO_ and this is the main reason for our emphasis on _PvP_ . We feel that the emotions involved with losing something of value is just as important as gaining something of value, it makes a very immersive experience. There have to be lows to make the highs more enjoyable. PvP allows us to achieve that.” —Nathan Richarsson * * * My personal opinion on this _is_ I look at the game today, and the changes that have been made over the years, and I am left of two minds as to whether this design philosophy still exists at CCP, or if the market CCP is currently courting wants this. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7475 "2022-09-04T01:40:15Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You say “four easy steps” but all I see are convoluted steps where the primary focus is to desperately try to not affect gankers and the secondary focus is to protect players before a predefined cutoff. Convoluted steps that do nothing according to you: -Define new players so there is no excuse for attacking them. -Educate the new players better on when they are not going to be protected anymore and on what ganking actually is and how to avoid it. -Provide increased GM support for new players. -Better educate new players on the wider eve universe so they are less scared. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This is pretty much the problem with trying to have any conversation about ganking on this forum, gankers are immediately of the view that they should see absolutely zero negative effects from any changes, and be compensated if they do. But the core problem is that ganking is already ridiculously unbalanced in favour of gankers. The “problem” is players are completely unwilling to engage in any kind of middle ground discussion that doesn’t fit their view of how it should be fixed or challenges it. I just gave you four positive changes to the game that completely aside from any ganking consideration would improve chances of new player retention. You dismissed them as convoluted because they didn’t fit your agenda of nerfing ganking. What is more important to you, nerfing ganking or getting new players into the game? Because your response makes it seem like you’d rather not have the new players if it means you get to spite the gankers… For the record I’m not a ganker. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why put it aside? CCP stated at fanfest that ganking affects new player churn and stated in a follow up post they want to look at reducing ganking to rebalance highsec. Correlation is not causation. Did they release the findings from an exit poll on players that left and why? All they have said is there is a connection and they are going to look into it. Anything else is supposition. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 1:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7476 "2022-09-04T01:45:51Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > Lol you guys are both wind up merchants. Two peas in a pod. She’s actually just one in a long line of people like her in the playstyle. The blog idea isn’t new. Peeps were doing that for UO as well. However, it warms my heart that its still continuing. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not semantics, it’s simply the reality that your view of what the core of EVE is has never been indicated as such. If anything the core principle of EVE is a fully player-driven economy. That’s been a core USP since day one. ROFL. Yea, it is a player economy. In an open world PvP game where you consent to PvP as soon as you undock. Having a player driven economy doesn’t change that fact ROFL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > \*breaks Nope. Meant the brakes 😃 Keep up with the lingo gramps. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again, that is your opinion, yes. I don’t think that it would be worse for the majority of the game. Of course it would. What’s funny is you claim to be an economist but don’t understand what that would do LOL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 🤣 Again, to you, and I’m sure Aiko would nod along too out of spite. But opinions about me from some nobodies on the internet is really of no concern to me. My bro, you’re the one who decided to lie. Aiko nor I didn’t force you ROFL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That’s called “projection”. Because you get overly emotional about a video game you assume other people do too. Bro you throw tantrums about Fortnite every other post and shake your cane at them ROFL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Perhaps from time to time, but there’s a significant difference in scale. LOL not really. Hence why he said it. Be sad 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You literally admitted to playing Fortnite and were screaming about how it’s making “vidya game history”. Come on guy. And? I’ve played the majority of games in almost every genre, as I do like vidya games. See, and this is how you know you’re a boomer hater. You can not like the game, of course. But you cannot objectively say it hasn’t made a mega impact on the meta of vidya games as we know it. The fact that you do, shows your bias 😃 Man. I pity you bro. You are the literal definition of a boomer LOL. I suggest downloading Tik Tok. Don’t be scared of the youngins! > [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Sry, what was that? I’m too busy making false acct’s in Starborne for all the forum trolls to keep up. Never played it 😃 > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > we just had an update on the upcoming faction war changes He don’t care. He doesn’t play LOL. I have a feeling he barely undocks if he does play at all. Even when they re-do FW, he won’t play it. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Meanwhile missions haven’t been revamped in ages, mining is still a fairly inactive playstyle, industry is still just click-and-wait and PI is still a massive ballache to setup and zero fun to play. Hell they could replace PI with a ripoff of a mobile “idle” game and have a better experience than they have now. Sounds like EVE isn’t the game for you because you can’t handle the sand 😃 > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > You know what would happen if they changed all those things? Half the fan base would complain. That’s the problem. EVE currently works. Developing EVE right now is a bit like landscape gardening a minefield. They are as likely to upset people as make it better so it has to be done very slowly and carefully. Just look at gate rats. Such a simple change that I happen to love but just as many people hated. Now imagine implementing more complex changes. He doesn’t understand it nor care. He wants what he wants to benefit himself. What’s hilarious is what he want would basically destroy EVE and then leave him with even more nothing 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why put it aside? CCP stated at fanfest that ganking affects new player churn and stated in a follow up post they want to look at reducing ganking to rebalance highsec. LOL why do you keep pushing this lie ROFL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > primary focus is to desperately try to not affect gankers I thought you liked player driven universe and all that. If so opposed to ganking, why aren’t you AGing? Why cry to daddy CCP? > [@Sere\_O\_Asis](#): > > “The sci-fi feel and vastness of space from _Elite_ and the social interaction of massively multiplayer and player vs. player gaming from _Ultima Online_ This is what drew me to EVE in 06 😃 > [@Sere\_O\_Asis](#): > > My personal opinion on this _is_ I look at the game today, and the changes that have been made over the years, and I am left of two minds as to whether this design philosophy still exists at CCP, or if the market CCP is currently courting wants this. Sadly, the players are the ones pouring out the sand. I’d like for EVE to remain EVE, but its unlikely. I am merely tilting at windmills, attempting to slow the tide. One day, players like Lucas will cry enough where CCP will think that’s the answer. However on that day EVE will truly end. It’ll become just people mindlessly farming in high and null. Null is already turning into a snoozefest, at least from the outside. No one wants to make big moves anymore because everyone is afraid of losing stuff. But small peeps can’t be upstarts and start anything because they’ll get crushed. In reality, Aiko and her brethren are the last of what EVE was and is rapidly not becoming. > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > For the record I’m not a ganker. Nor am I. And I don’t think ganking needs to be “fixed”. It’s fine as is. Actually, I feel war decs should go back to way they were. You’d then see a large decrease in ganking I feel. You’ll notice he says he has no problems avoiding ganks. The bigger question is if Lucas is so concerned about the noobs, why isn’t he in rookie chat/EVE UNI and the starter systems, educating the noobs 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 2:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7478 "2022-09-04T02:11:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > My hard stance is ganking should be purged entirely This is why nobody takes you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7479 "2022-09-04T02:16:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > > > … bunch of stuff tat bears no resemblance to the previous post … > > You literally talked about AIR ships showing up with a magic repair beam, and gank pilots being reimbursed their costs where the NPs then thank the gankers. You’re really not helping your case proving you’re not an Aiko fan, that could pretty much be copy-paste from her blog. I made it as simple as possible for you to understand. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No you didn’t, you did the typical ganker thing of demanding zero changes to ganking and forcing new players into some cut-back version of the game where CCP pays someone to babysit them until they opt out of it. New players should get to see the rest of the game, they should just do it without getting farmed by a bunch of veterans with nothing better to do than hang around oneshotting noobs. Again not a ganker… Providing additional education to true new players is not forcing them into a cut back version of the game. Showing them a world beyond high sec is not forcing them into a cut back version of the game. Providing better support to new bros is not forcing them into a cut back version of the game. If they leave high sec they are going to get one shot wether they are educated or not. You would apparently like them to be able to lose their ship to those veterans? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Getting new players into the game, > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > “did you here they removed ganking” Did you hear they made eve soft? Damnit I first found about eve watching a gankers stream now the content I was interested in has been removed. Is no more of a niche than, I was interested in eve but ganking seemed scary now it’s on rails it feels just my sort of game. Also recruitment without efforts at retention is a bad business strategy. That’s how games workshop almost went bust when they were inducting hundreds of young kids into the hobby and their heads were suddenly turned by Pokémon cards. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > They didn’t say it was just correlation, they said that a subset of ganking that they labelle griefing was causing an increase in new player churn. Again, you’re claiming not to be a ganker but then you’re handwaving away CCPs own statements because they go against gankers. So they didn’t even say ganking as a whole was affecting churn, griefing is effecting churn. Again correlation is not causation… did they exit poll these people to find out they actually left from griefing? They also haven’t given any clarification on the numbers of the ganking population that are considered griefer. I’m not waving away CCPs statements. I’ll be interested to hear the results of their investigations. What I’m waving away is your misappropriation of those statements to fit your agenda. Especially as when actual positive changes are proposed to help new players avoid ganking and thereby the subset of gankers who grief. You dismiss them because they don’t fit your remove ganking agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2022, 2:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/7480 "2022-09-04T02:22:40Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > > My hard stance is ganking should be purged entirely > > This is why nobody takes you seriously. I don’t take him seriously because he doesn’t argue in good faith. It’s clear he has an agenda to remove ganking but if you challenge his assertations with reasonable discourse he dismisses instead of discussing. If you attempt to solve the problems he is saying is caused by ganking he dismisses because he needs that problem to justify his agenda. I’m officially done talking to him. He’s not here to discuss, he’s here with an agenda and he’s going to be as obtuse and persistent as he needs to be till he sees that agenda come to pass. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004.md?page=353) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004.md?page=355)