# Nerf Ganking Megathread **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [March 7, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004 "2021-03-07T02:12:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 393
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8434 "2022-09-08T18:44:41Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > When you attack another player and your intention is to … sell mining permits, it’s not griefing, it’s roleplay. Unless you have some sort of a study done on the “intentions” of gankers in hisec, we’ll just ignore that statement. On the other hand, I can imagine that gratuitous salt and tears can be an extra bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8436 "2022-09-08T18:49:37Z")
Ask Aiko, who is in a better position to answer that than I will ever be. And please stop stretching the subject to include Erotica1 - that’s just silly. This is a thread about ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8438 "2022-09-08T19:06:14Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Could it be that perhaps that too is emergent gameplay caused by changes introduced to core gameplay elements by ccp ? There is more than the ring of truth to this position, Wadiest, if you substitute for ‘griefing’, ‘ganking’. It was ganking itself which underwent change, _in response to_ attempts by CCP to rein-in what was presented to it by some players as, basically, wholesale slaughter (which it has never been). Each time a nerf to ganking was deployed, we pushed back in an effort to preserve the playstyle, whilst at the same time operating within the new parameters. It was James 315 who organised the activity within Highsec at that time, drawing together previously disparate groups and solo players into a loose and broad-based coalition with shared objectives and interests. He wrote a daily blog, Minerbumping, which drew and entertained many of his supporters (and not a few of the other sort…). As far as Highsec is concerned, his achievement has been unparalleled. He started out as a lone capsuleer bumping miners in Arvasarus, in order to sell them Permits at 10 Mil a pop, and ended up fronting a huge organisation, known throughout New Eden. The nay-saying scallywags of our Official Opposition will struggle to achieve anything remotely as successful. (He also gave me my first break as a Voice Actor - which eventually became a RL job - Ta’, James!) So yes, emergent ganking gameplay has always been a _response_ to a situation presented to the ganker, and quite beyond his control. That so many of us have continued in spite of the nerfs and the hysterical, hyperbolic opposition sometimes seen on these boards is surely the best testament to our resolute and optimistic natures. We are EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8439 "2022-09-08T19:08:44Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’ve already linked to the fanfest presentation and the blog posts about ganking multiple times in this thread, > [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > I’ve gone back about 1000 posts so far and have been unable to locate it. > > Kindly re-link it please. Then a bunch of posts with other people. I know you got a lot of irons in the fire, with multiple convos going. Could you do me a solid and please re-link the fanfest presentation from CCP. I’m very curious to watch it, and I have been unable to locate in this massive thread of over 8000 posts. Kindly, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8441 "2022-09-08T19:11:44Z")
Thanks! ❤ ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8442 "2022-09-08T19:20:01Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > > > As far as Highsec is concerned, his achievement has been unparalleled > > Only to gankers. Name any other Highsec-dwelling capsuleer who has grown a similarly large organisation around a single playstyle, and which is known throughout New Eden. His legacy is certainly _respected_ mainly by gankers, but - personality aside - surely, not even you can deny that he built that legacy with hard work and commitment? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8445 "2022-09-08T19:44:09Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re being disingenuous. We all know why, we all know that their aim was to generate these responses. Not really, it was added content to a lucrative business of selling permits, and the fun of killing those who refused to pay. So if one strikes gold (salt and tears), why not make use of it. And to repeat it for the third and final time in today’s exchange, I fully acknowledge the existence of _real_ griefing in EvE. There’s nothing disingenuous about that. But we’re worlds apart in our respective ideas of what _is_ griefing. I don’t follow your lead on that one, that’s for sure. Even that is not important. It shouldn’t even capture your attention. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8446 "2022-09-08T19:48:10Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I absolutely can deny that. He harassed some players built a bunch of alt accounts then encourage a relatively small but relatively loud group of people to join up and repeat his phrases. Even that he only really managed to achieve though connections with goons. LOL, the haterade is so strong 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Tora Bushido Who? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Gevlon Who? Ahh mercs who reigned apparently while I was on EVE break. Guess they aren’t that famous huh? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’d definitely argue that @Mike_Azariah I agree MIke is a good guy. Never seen him in game tho. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > OK. Laugh away. Oh, I am 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8448 "2022-09-08T19:57:43Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 Thanks for proving my point. The only people following James around are zealots who have no real connection with the actual game. My youth, all you demonstrated is the people you named aren’t that famous. Also if you could read, you’d see that by then I’d already left EVE. I stopped playing back in 14 😃 Then I came back recently 😃 A quick google search revealed some merc activity. Seems pretty standard stuff. I also gather they don’t play anymore due to the war dec changes. They don’t seem that famous to me brosef. It seems like they are mostly ridiculed as well, esp according to that reddit thread about Tora. It also reveals the last time you were active was probably around those times 😃 Sorry bruv, I know you’re jealous and it hurts you. You need a hug or ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8449 "2022-09-08T19:58:28Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > a similarly large organisation > 🔃🔃🔃🔃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > a relatively small but relatively loud group of people +1 ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8450 "2022-09-08T19:59:56Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I could name people like Tora Bushido One of the Greats, to be sure, Lucas. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’d definitely argue that @Mike_Azariah smashes through James 315 You’re comparing apples with oranges, Lucas. Mike’s efforts - worthy though they may be - are not directly an example of playing EVE. I did say ‘personality aside’. Gevlon was a member of the CODE. Alliance (albeit briefly), so even he was _drawn_ to James’ Institution. Remember, I invited you specifically to consider Highsec-dwelling capsuleers who had founded a major organisation based around a single (EVE) playstyle. You have not done so because you cannot do so without imposing upon the terms I’ve used your own, newly minted interpretation. So, rather than say, ‘Yes, given those terms, you are correct’, you prevaricate. James 315 published The Code (or officially began his reign) in June 2012. His legacy is still going strong in 2022, under Princess @Aiko_Danuja. I salute them both! ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8451 "2022-09-08T20:00:08Z")
ROFL. Its ok bro. We get you’re jealous and sad. Do you need a hug or ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8452 "2022-09-08T20:01:28Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > because you don’t think that deliberately trying to wind up the actual player and get them so riled up the y produce angry content you can laugh about with your mates is griefing. correct, I do not think that that is the intent. I don’t think the average ganker is malicious. If that makes me naive, I can live with that. Ganking in hisec is just targeting what you can find, with some isk value in return, and with the calculated cost of losing ships to concord. Sometimes the ganker gets the extra salty bonus, a sign of a player who’s out of his depth, or just being a sore, immature loser. Wanna make more out of it ? That’s your prerogative, but not necessarily the truth. I’m sure the rabbits, if given a vote, would love to eradicate all the foxes. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > so riled up the y produce angry content you can laugh about with your mates is griefing. so, players who do not produce angry content (salt, tears, insults, funny threats, etc) are not being griefed, that is the direct consequence of your own statement. In other words, it’s the socalled victims who turn this into griefing, not the attackers. That may sound awkward, but do cogitate this for a while, and you will see the sun shining through the clouds. Nerf salt spewing, ban it from local, and most of the griefing would be … gone ? See, solutions do present themselves. As if most of the socalled griefing isn’t assuming a role of “victim” in the first place, at the expense of real victims of real griefing. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8453 "2022-09-08T20:18:21Z")
I have a hard time imagining Sasha ‘griefing’ me, or anybody else. Guybertini would come to kill me here or there, but was never anything but a gentleman in chat. I can expect that either one might shoot me if they find me, but they’re not going to harass me or try to inflict emotional pain. I don’t doubt that people do feel pain or anger from a loss of that sort, but that’s a reflection of a lack of maturity or self control, not an intention on the part of others to inflict that grief when we all signed up for a PvP game. I’m fine with being a rabbit and leaving the foxes to do whatever it is that they do. I’m just not going to make their hunt an easy one if I can help it. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8454 "2022-09-08T20:22:47Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > I don’t think the average ganker is malicious. You’re right, Wadiest, although I don’t have the data to support my assertion. (At least I’m honest about it…) Some folks are compelled to paint us all as bad/weak/unhealthy, because without that opinion to bolster their position, they appear to have nothing to say. We must be _bad_ in order for them to feel _good_. A psychoanalyst said that in we humans, feeling always occurs first, followed by thinking. It’s quite useful to remember because there are those for whom the ‘thinking’ part doesn’t actually happen, or if it does, it is so shackled to the overwhelming feeling that truly independent and objective evaluation becomes impossible. I know this because I’ve bought software when (on reflection) I clearly should not have done so. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8456 "2022-09-08T20:35:09Z")
My anecdotal experience is that when someone killed me they’d either offer a ‘gf’ and leave it at that, give me tips in a mail or in chat on how not to be a victim next time, or pay me ISK/give me a replacement ship by way of apology. All these options hinge on my being a good sport, though, I would imagine. Not saying there aren’t bad actors out there, but none with whom I’ve ever personally had to deal with in all my time playing. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8457 "2022-09-08T20:36:06Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Then you’re ither delusional or a liar, which is it What ? No other options ? No balanced, moderate viewpoint ? Nothing extreme enough ? LOL. I guess any progress we made over the last week has been reverted to naught. Sad bunny, or maybe not. After all, whether on the forums or in New Eden, almost every player here is a completely anonymous entity - as he/she should be. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The majority of ganks are unprofitable. ISK value has no relation to griefing, or even ganking. They are legit targets, thus can be killed. Should the rest of us assume that you are talking from a wide experience and direct involvement of anything related to griefing and ganking ? Hmmm 🤔, citation needed. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8458 "2022-09-08T20:41:31Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Some folks are compelled to paint us all as bad/weak/unhealthy, because without that opinion to bolster their position, they appear to have nothing to say. We must be _bad_ in order for them to feel _good_. Yep. They also seem to be unaware of what game they are playing LOL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again, for the very small but very loud group of gankers and their multiple alts. LOL. You just can’t factor in that most people aren’t actually people’s alts huh? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Then you’re ither delusional or a liar, which is it? Even right from the early days of the code blog it was all about “tears of the day” and such. LOL I find its mostly the bears who are terrible people. I mean Drac taught a homophobe how to evade moderation. I don’t see any gankers doing that. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This is a videogame, many of the people playing it do lack maturity - because they are actual children. ROFL. You got any proof of that? I highly doubt that there are many children playing EVE. I thought they all played Fortnite? Which is it ROFL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Except that the intention literally is to inflict grief. That’s why it’s not just PvP. PvP would be “Blow up ship, move on to next target”. PvP is not “blow up ship, send multiple eve-mails, invite to chat, repeatedly make statements designed to provoke a negative response, post mocking blog entry about that response on the internet”. I dunno mate, that’s been happening for a lot of PvP for forever. Do you even internet or ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8459 "2022-09-08T20:52:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > you picked specific criteria I did, and it’s a good thing that I did! Even given those criteria, you should have been able to come up with something to equal James’ achievements, if your view was correct. That you could not do so - and that you could not honestly admit that you could not do so - betrays the mind of a man who must win an argument at any cost, even at the cost of honesty, truth. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Consider James was a goon though even he doesn’t fit your criteria. James was indeed a Goon. He came to Highsec to seek his fortune, and succeeded. He was not a Goon in Highsec. Your point? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > the very small but very loud group of gankers and their multiple alts. All Corps/Alliances contain members and their alts. Safety. and CODE. are/were not alone in this. As for their being ‘small but very loud’ - why not? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > from the early days of the code blog it was all about “tears of the day” There was never a regular Minerbumping slot entitled ‘Tears of the Day’. There were: Kills of the Week Highsec Miner Grab Bag As for > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > > > You’re comparing apples with oranges, Lucas. > > Shocker. “Doesn’t count because :reasons:” Mike would surely agree that he is not in the same company as Tora, James, and Gevlon. Hence, to compare him with players like those is indeed like comparing apples with oranges - they are completely different, though players (fruits) nevertheless. I invite you to set aside your prejudices for a moment and to consider what I am writing, not just gobble it up and say the first thing that comes into your head. You are capable of better, Lucas. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8460 "2022-09-08T20:59:07Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > That you could not do so - and that you could not honestly admit that you could not do so - betrays the mind of a man who must win an argument at any cost, even at the cost of honesty, truth. Yep. Hence why he can’t admit the impact Fortnite has currently had on almost all genres of games LOL. > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > I invite you to set aside your prejudices for a moment and to consider what I am writing, not just gobble it up and say the first thing that comes into your head. You are capable of better, Lucas. You’re a saint for this but I don’t think he is LOL. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004.md?page=392) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004.md?page=394)