# Nerf to HS ganking increases dest. by 11% SRS, and HS WARS are next **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [January 7, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884 "2023-01-07T15:13:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/94 "2023-01-13T11:38:25Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > That is simply not true. Stop lying. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > As always, you are telling someone who actually _does_ stuff how it is done. As always you are lying to make it appear that what you do is exceptional. Put aside the fact that you aren’t in any leadership position where you actually coordinate these fights. It’s well known how these alliances operate. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > There’s _no reason_ for directors to go looking for the ‘cheapest’, least resistance, structures to bash…because the ships doing the bashing are seldom lost. I have not lost a single ship during highsec structure bashing, even during the period when I only had the skills to fly squishies, and even when we’ve been up against 100 man corps with well defended structures. Ships are never lost because you never take on any actual risk. It’s not “well defended” if the attackers never lose any ships. Almost all of the structures you attack will not be defended at all, and the few that are defended will rarely be defended well. Because that’s what your alliance and other alliances like your target. Do you honestly believe that your alliance takes on lots of challenging fights but rarely loses a ship on ops because you’re all so superior to all other EVE players? There are no personal attacks in this post. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/95 "2023-01-13T11:50:24Z")
I’m afraid you leave me no alternative but to flag your post for the personal attack and ad hominem that it is. ---
**Author:** ![God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/god_emperor_kane/32/399336_2.png) [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/God_Emperor_Kane)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/96 "2023-01-13T11:52:18Z")
I remember flying along side Wrecking Machine with my alliance BlackFlag and we were 55-65 vs about 210. We do have have fights… we won that one. I even have a video of it. Granted not many will stand up, not even null sec defends their individual members or corps structures. Even a little look at Wrecking Machine zKillboard will show you they do have fights. How many ships do you loose when you pop a sod on gate with 60 or 100 other people? What do you risk? I undock highsec capitals, what do you risk? A frigate maybe? Nothing of worth. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/97 "2023-01-13T11:56:16Z")
We have fights, but she’s making out that we deliberately go for easy targets…which is nonsense. Most WM members ( and I’d imagine most Blackflag members ) _want_ a fight. And yes, we’ve done structures alongside BlackFlag on a number of occasions. You guys are formidable. ---
**Author:** ![God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/god_emperor_kane/32/399336_2.png) [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/God_Emperor_Kane)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/98 "2023-01-13T12:03:12Z")
It is the same concept as many in the BBS channel. I pop a marauder with a nergal i baited in a mission. I get a ugh highsec. They pop a frigate with cloaky t3 solo in low or null they relive a scene from topgun and high five each other naked in the showers. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/99 "2023-01-13T12:10:05Z")
I’ve been on the receiving end of BlackFlag on one occasion in an alt ( spy ) account…so have actually been a station defender. Taking on Leshaks that have logi support is all but impossible, and the logi chain means its very hard to even take on the logi. Which is how it is all supposed to work. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/100 "2023-01-13T12:57:09Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I’m afraid you leave me no alternative but to flag your post for the personal attack and ad hominem that it is. There were no personal attacks. Saying something you disagree with is not a personal attack. It doesn’t surprise me that you are going to abuse the forum flagging system. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > but she’s making out that we deliberately go for easy targets…which is nonsense. It’s not nonsense, it’s absolutely true. That’s what your alliance does, it goes after undefended structures to get cores to sell. I’m sure you do occasionally get into fights, but they will be the exception not the rule. > [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](#): > > How many ships do you loose when you pop a sod on gate with 60 or 100 other people? None. But I’m not pretending that’s high-quality PvP in which I’m vastly superior. Altara is in an alliance that takes down undefended structures for profit and is claiming that she is “part of one of the most well disciplined fleets in Eve” which is complete nonsense. The fact is that the introduction of cores made it profitable to go after easy targets and so some alliances do that. It’s not necessarily bad that they do but it’s a poor design decision for CCP as it forces smaller corps to have to merge into giant alliances to be able to build their own home in the sandbox. ---
**Author:** ![Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mindahouf_davaham/32/379996_2.png) [@Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mindahouf_Davaham)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/101 "2023-01-13T12:59:49Z")
Hey if i get a station would you help me defend it ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/102 "2023-01-13T13:10:45Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > There were no personal attacks. Saying something you disagree with is not a personal attack. It doesn’t surprise me that you are going to abuse the forum flagging system. Nonsense. You are not merely ‘disagreeing’. It is downright bad manners and ad hominem to ask someone what they do and then accuse them of ‘lying’, and so on, when all they are doing is responding. I am getting sick and tired of your deliberately antagonistic responses, and have _every intention_ of flagging them as the trolling and personal attacks that they are. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/103 "2023-01-13T13:16:50Z")
I didn’t ask you what you did. I made a factual statement about what your alliance does. It’s OK if our opinions differ and it’s not a personal attack if I don’t agree with you. Abusing the flagging system isn’t going to make us agree. I’m not going to respond to your posts if they are just going to accuse me, threaten me and insult me. I’d like to be able to continue a discussion on the topic in good faith, so let me know if you would like to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/104 "2023-01-13T13:20:07Z")
> [@Mindahouf\_Davaham](#): > > Hey if i get a station would you help me defend it That would be fun. In fact some stations have their own defences…missiles, drones, neuting of enemy ships, and so on that add to the firepower. But given that the average opposing fleet is going to be formidable battleships in fleets of 30 or so, I doubt the two of us are going to hold out. But the carnage would be fun. That said…in order to do so I could not do so as an AO account. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/105 "2023-01-13T13:23:54Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > It’s OK if our opinions differ and it’s not a personal attack if I don’t agree with you. You were not ‘disagreeing’…you were outright accusing someone of lying, and making it personal by attacking me rather than the content with statements like ’ to make it appear that what you do is exceptional '. And even now you just can’t stop with the antagonism. God Emperor Kane has even told you what happens…but still you rant on. ISDs…please sort this person out. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/106 "2023-01-13T13:31:25Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I made a factual statement about what your alliance does I have been on 80 alliance fleets and you have not been on a single one…and you know more than me about what they do ?? Have you any idea how _ridiculous_ your ‘factual’ sounds in that context ? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/107 "2023-01-13T13:38:34Z")
You’re making an assumption I’ve never been on a single one. It’s also widely known what these alliances do, I don’t even think it’s supposed to be a secret. I’m pretty sure one of your alliance leaders posted on here a couple of years back specifically talking about how great it was they were going to be able to get loot from abandoned structures and how they’d scouted loads of them out. It’s also statistically implausible that your alliance picks such a high proportion of undefended structures by accident. There are countless trade hubs and freeports that would bring a defense force that you never attack and they are all more visible than the unlisted structures held by small corps your alliance tends to target. Again, it’s not an insult. It’s completely fine that in the mechanics that CCP has built there are some alliances that farm undefended structures for profit and in the process prevent the growth of smaller corps. It’s bad on CCPs part that they have a system that encourages that, it’s not bad on the part of the alliances who choose to take advantage of that bad design. It should be the case that the amount of profit you get is proportional to the risk you take, but as it’s currently designed the exact opposite is true, with completely abandoned structures being the most profitable and undefended structures being more profitable than those that are actively defended. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/108 "2023-01-13T13:42:31Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > It’s also widely known what these alliances do It is widely known that Santa Claus lives on Mars. Sheesh…anyone can come up with a ‘widely known’. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/109 "2023-01-13T14:08:39Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > It’s also statistically implausible that your alliance picks such a high proportion of undefended structures by accident. There are countless trade hubs and freeports that would bring a defense force that you never attack and they are all more visible than the unlisted structures held by small corps your alliance tends to target. As you have never been on an alliance fleet, you have _no idea_ what portion of structures are defended or not. Whereas I do…_as I am actually on the fleets_. It’s just unbelievable that you, with zero experience of it, think you have more knowledge of it than someone who actually does it. But then again, you do exactly the same with ganking…telling gankers what they do even though you have never ganked. I’ve encountered numerous defended structures. On two occasions almost lost my Phantasm ( which is what I was flying then ) to defenders. You wouldn’t know any of this…because you were not there ! The sheer gall with which you _pretend_ to know more about it all than _people who actually do it on a regular basis_ is just breathtaking. As for attacking trade hubs, etc…why would any structure bashing alliance want to attack structures that are serving _a useful function for everyone_ ? ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/110 "2023-01-13T14:21:01Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Stop lying. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > As always you are lying […] > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Do you honestly believe […] Wow, full on personal attacks! I’m flagging this post. This behavior is not okay. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/111 "2023-01-13T14:21:08Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > It’s completely fine that in the mechanics that CCP has built there are some alliances that farm undefended structures for profit and in the process prevent the growth of smaller corps. It’s bad on CCPs part that they have a system that encourages that, it’s not bad on the part of the alliances who choose to take advantage of that bad design. That’s nonsense too. I had a spy alt in a 300 man corp that had no player owned structures at all and was based solely in an NPC station. They clearly grew to 300 without having any player structure at all. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/112 "2023-01-13T16:11:23Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > As you have never been on an alliance fleet, you have _no idea_ what portion of structures are defended or not. Sure I do, because I can see related kills to structures. A defended structure would have a lot of related kills. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Whereas I do…_as I am actually on the fleets_. So what percentage are properly defended? > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > It’s just unbelievable that you, with zero experience of it, think you have more knowledge of it than someone who actually does it. It’s unbelievable that you assume a lack of experience. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > As for attacking trade hubs, etc…why would any structure bashing alliance want to attack structures that are serving _a useful function for everyone_ ? Why would you not? Haulers provide useful service for everyone but you are happy for them to be killed, right? > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > That’s nonsense too. You call everything you disagree with “nonsense”. It’s lost all meaning. It’s just a way for you to attack people. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/113 "2023-01-13T17:19:57Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > So what percentage are properly defended? I’ll respond to one example of where you just try to bamboozle with subjective words, rather than your entire post that is full of such. What is ‘properly’ ? Who gets to decide what ‘properly’ is ? And do stop the crybully behaviour where you attack others and then try to twist it round. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884.md?page=5)