# Nerf to HS ganking increases dest. by 11% SRS, and HS WARS are next **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [January 7, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884 "2023-01-07T15:13:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/114 "2023-01-13T17:22:19Z")
As in defended by something that has a chance of actually succeeding. Not just one guy manning the guns. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/115 "2023-01-13T17:31:02Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > As in defended by something that has a chance of actually succeeding. That is entirely up to the persons defending ! Your entire argument is ridiculous. If people _choose_ to have stations that are easily defeated…why should there be any surprise when they are ? We don’t go around asking people to defend their structures as lightly as possible…we take what’s on offer. Seriously, your argument is some of the most ass backwards ‘logic’ I have seen. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/116 "2023-01-13T17:38:58Z")
Of course, you don’t agree so my argument is ridiculous. I’m not saying it’s is a surprise that undefended structures are destroyed. I’m saying that it’s happening because CCPs bad design has made it profitable to take down undefended structures and that alliances like yours take advantage of that design. I’ve even said that it’s not a bad/evil thing that you do take advantage of it, just that it’s not challenging gameplay. My view is that higher rewards should come with higher risk and lower rewards with lower risk. So if you attack a structure that does little and that no one is able to realistically defend your reward should be practically zero, while if you are fighting a structure with high usage and a strong defensive force your reward should be much higher. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/117 "2023-01-13T17:51:53Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I’m saying that it’s happening because CCPs bad design has made it profitable to take down undefended structures and that alliances like yours take advantage of that design. If people are putting up structures with no hope of defending them as all they have is a 5 man corp…in what way is that CCP’s fault ? Shall I blame CCP if I take on the gate camp at Kinakka with my Condor and get blown to hell ? Shall I wail that its not fair and my puny Condor _ought_ to be able to zap 4 Tornados ? Eve is not supposed to be ‘fair’. It is about gaining the skills, people, and so on to minimise the unfairness. This in some way necessitates noobs starting at an ‘unfair advantage’…but then being a noob is not something anyone escapes ! ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/118 "2023-01-13T18:04:39Z")
It’s not CCP’s fault that small corps are trying to put up structures to have something of theirs in a sandbox game. It is CCP’s fault that a few years after introducing citadels they added an NPC bought and sold item that has the specific purpose of making empty structures worthwhile to blow up, which also had a side-effect of making small groups running citadels profitable targets. I don’t know how I can say that in a way that you will understand but every time you’ve tried to present what you think my argument is, you’ve got it wrong. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Eve is not supposed to be ‘fair’ Funny how you say this when you are the one benefiting from the low-risk profit you’re defending. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Baird](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wesley_baird/32/455827_2.png) [@Wesley\_Baird](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wesley_Baird)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/119 "2023-01-13T19:07:10Z")
Id like to point out for the record that you two are going way off topic. The point was my alliance the SRS are baddies and we should hate them. So lets back to hating on the SRS. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/120 "2023-01-13T19:12:44Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > which also had a side-effect of making small groups running citadels profitable targets. Nobody’s forcing these small groups to place undefended structures in space. _Of course_ they are going to be targets. Why should they be any more safe than me leaving my Raven at the gate camp at Ahbazon ? I would not expect to return next day and find it still there. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > you are the one benefiting from the low-risk profit you’re defending. A few percent of my total worth is from bashing stations. I think I probably made more when I was trading clone tags…which with a fast align Sunesis _is_ practically risk free. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/121 "2023-01-13T19:15:15Z")
I get the impression, you both will not agree to _anything_. So why continue the arguing? However, out of curiosity, I have a honest question. Take no offense, really I have absolutely no knowledge about global political ties because I evaded nullsec alliances as much as I could over the years. I probably can’t name 10 sov alliances or 3 CSM members, so in this case its a honest “noob question”: Why do the large HighSec Wardeccers don’t attack the Perimeter Keepstar, the other big Market Fortizars or the Medialabs POCO Cartel if “fights” are their main inspiration? Because all of these would probably be well defended by other organized fleets, so great fights would be guaranteed and probably a huge amount of loot (and prestige!) if you win the fights? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/122 "2023-01-13T19:18:22Z")
> [@Wesley\_Baird](#): > > The point was my alliance the SRS are baddies and we should hate them. So lets back to hating on the SRS. 66 members. I’m quaking in my boots. ---
**Author:** ![Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mindahouf_davaham/32/379996_2.png) [@Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mindahouf_Davaham)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/123 "2023-01-13T19:27:34Z")
make it 69 and I won’t hate them ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/124 "2023-01-13T19:29:33Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Why do the large HighSec Wardeccers don’t attack the Perimeter Keepstar, the other big Market Fortizars or the Medialabs POCO Cartel if “fights” are their main inspiration? Because all of these would probably be well defended by other organized fleets, so great fights would be guaranteed and probably a huge amount of loot (and prestige!) if you win the fights? Like I said earlier, it is probably not in anyone’s interest to blap structures that are widely used by everyone. Some structures are invaluable ( if expensive ) sources of items that save me having to go all the way to Dodixie or Jita. There are some player stations where I actually buy and set up my ships _rather_ than doing so at Jita. Whereas a structure in the middle of nowhere is likely serving no-one’s interests except the holding corp. ---
**Author:** ![Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mindahouf_davaham/32/379996_2.png) [@Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mindahouf_Davaham)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/125 "2023-01-13T19:49:18Z")
unless you offer some market to other players ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/126 "2023-01-13T19:49:22Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Nobody’s forcing these small groups to place undefended structures in space. When did I say they were being forced? > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > _Of course_ they are going to be targets. Only because CCP implemented cores that are brought from and sold to NPC that specifically cannot be removed from structures and drop 100% of the time. Prior to that mechanic being added wardec corps didn’t profit from tearing down undefended structures owned by tiny corps. > [@Syzygium](#): > > I get the impression, you both will not agree to _anything_. So why continue the arguing? I’m just interested in the debate. It’s also amusing to watch people need to twist and misrepresent everything I say just so they can find a reason to be against it. My whole argument here is: CCP implemented a feature to clear space junk. That had an unintended consequence of making it profitable to shoot structures owned by small groups by breaking the risk/reward ratio, and that in my opinion, that’s a bad thing because small groups being able to create something they own in a sandbox is a good thing for engagement. Being forced to join some giant blob to survive is bad. > [@Syzygium](#): > > Why do the large HighSec Wardeccers don’t attack the Perimeter Keepstar, the other big Market Fortizars or the Medialabs POCO Cartel if “fights” are their main inspiration? Because they can’t. Altara may go on about it being because the of the usefulness of the structure but it really comes down to them not being able to survive an actual defense. If they could guarantee there would be no defense fleet they’d not hesitate to attack it. I’m sure I’ve seen them take down public refineries and other freeports. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/127 "2023-01-13T19:59:09Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > When did I say they were being forced? They aren’t…so what’s your problem ? As I have now said several trillion times, it is entirely down to the corp if they want to place an un-defended structure. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Only because CCP implemented cores that are brought from and sold to NPC that specifically cannot be removed from structures and drop 100% of the time. Great ! Given that I have spent over 2 billion on doctrine ships for the fleet…its nice to get some of that back. Again…what’s the problem ? You twist words every which way, make deliberately subjective and vague statements and then demand ‘that’s not what I said’. Is there some actual point to all this deliberate contrarianism or are you just bored. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/128 "2023-01-13T20:01:57Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > They aren’t…so what’s your problem ? > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Again…what’s the problem ? Read my post, I made my position clear. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/129 "2023-01-13T20:08:02Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Read my post, I made my position clear. No, you misunderstand. What is _your_ problem ? As in what about it personally affects you…as you have never owned a station, only once ever bashed one, and yet are somehow an expert ( as always ) on how _everyone else_ is affected by everything ! When’s the last time you posted a post from actual experience rather than inventing what others experience ? I post my actual experience here. It is the one thing I am qualified to comment on. Not that of others. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/130 "2023-01-13T20:09:26Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > What is _your_ problem ? As in what about it personally affects you Why does it need to personally affect me for me to have a view on it? Though technically poor design decisions affect all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/131 "2023-01-13T20:12:16Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Why does it need to personally affect me for me to have a view on it? Well, I would not accept views on how to drive a car from someone who had never driven one. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/132 "2023-01-13T20:14:10Z")
Except you have no idea what I’ve done. You’re making accusations that I have no experience because once again you are attacking me rather than discussing the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mindahouf_davaham/32/379996_2.png) [@Mindahouf\_Davaham](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mindahouf_Davaham)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884/133 "2023-01-13T20:16:38Z")
Okay okay lets get back to the topic were everyone here gives me isk for a station for my corp [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-to-hs-ganking-increases-dest-by-11-srs-and-hs-wars-are-next/390884.md?page=6)