# New Dawn Initiative: Political Asylum for Caldari Citizens **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699 "2021-05-16T00:26:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 9:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/21 "2021-05-17T09:57:09Z")
If these are going to be your retorts then I will no longer be engaging with this joke of a thread. You are a sad, _sad_ little girl and the only worthwhile thing you have waiting for you in your future is your inevitable final death, after which you can stop being a waste of biomass and oxygen and be forgotten by all. You are pathetic, Pirate, your only use in this world is being a living caricature, a dynamic piece of anti-Guristas propaganda, a parody of a person. You want to hurt the State? You are helping it by showing the public just what kind of filth makes up the Guristas. Can you imagine that? Being such an incompetent orator that you actively hurt the reputation of those you are trying to advocate for? Even when they have the lowliest of reputations already? Well, I guess _you_ don’t have to imagine it. ---
**Author:** ![Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vehaima_zekaarin/32/260875_2.png) [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vehaima_Zekaarin)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/22 "2021-05-17T10:02:08Z")
My only interest is in saving lives from corporate rapine; that such offends you is no concern of mine. ---
**Author:** ![Timiko\_Sato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/timiko_sato/32/282419_2.png) [@Timiko\_Sato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Timiko_Sato)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/23 "2021-05-17T10:18:35Z")
…Wew. I thought about putting my own two ISK there but Remilia already came and said everything. Well. Funny joke, Vehaima, funny joke. Are you really think that you can show so much love for the Guristas… And then swap shoes on the fly and pretend that you are simple fed who only thinks about live of caldari people? Remember, GalNet never forgets. ---
**Author:** ![Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vehaima_zekaarin/32/260875_2.png) [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vehaima_Zekaarin)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/24 "2021-05-17T10:29:38Z")
> [@Timiko\_Sato](#): > > Well. Funny joke, Vehaima, funny joke. Are you really think that you can show so much love for the Guristas… And then swap shoes on the fly and pretend that you are simple fed who only thinks about live of caldari people? Remember, GalNet never forgets. I just realized how blessed I truly was to be me, and the privilege I enjoy as a capsuleer. The Federation opened my eyes to the truth: that I should use my privilege to help those without it. I’m just so honoured and grateful that I’m in the position I am to save the oppressed and persecuted of the State. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 11:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/25 "2021-05-17T11:06:24Z")
I don’t know enough about Caldari State politics to be qualified to have an opinion, but that’s never stopped me or anyone else before. So I’m wondering. What exactly are all these apparent grudges about ? Why do so many people have it in for Vehaima Zekaarin ? ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/26 "2021-05-17T11:36:49Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > Why do so many people have it in for Vehaima Zekaarin I have not troubled to follow all that closely; my understanding though is that she was Caldari, and is now depending on the expedience to whatever argument is being made, either a Guristas psychopath or a Gallente humanitarian–I suppose those two being interchangeable speaks volumes. ---
**Author:** ![Tanagura\_Amoii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tanagura_amoii/32/310830_2.png) [@Tanagura\_Amoii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tanagura_Amoii)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/27 "2021-05-17T15:11:46Z")
Whatever the intentions, perceptions, or recriminations, the migration in question here would reduce social tensions in the State and increase access to skilled labor in the Federation. Win-win. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/28 "2021-05-17T20:10:01Z")
I don’t think so. If any Caldari citizen would entertain the idea of joining a nation as contemptible as the Federation, they should be tried for treason and suffer the appropriate consequences as defined by the tribunal, not handed over to the enemy as free labor. There is only one party “winning” here, and your attempts to paint this as anything else are only elevated in their worth when stood alongside Zekaarin’s idiocy. That being said, the fact that _she_ is the one delivering this message is sufficient to put any statement into question, even less egregious ones. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > either a Guristas psychopath or a Gallente humanitarian–I suppose those two being interchangeable speaks volumes. It really does. ---
**Author:** ![Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vehaima_zekaarin/32/260875_2.png) [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vehaima_Zekaarin)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/29 "2021-05-17T23:15:50Z")
While I understand the cynical pursuit of profit at the expense of the welfare of its citizens promulgates a mindset that views human interaction as purely a zero-sum game in the State, I do not believe there exists such a thing as winning or losing where benefitting human lives is concerned: only compassion, or lack thereof. ---
**Author:** ![MantelGlobalIndustries](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mantelglobalindustries/32/380599_2.png) [@MantelGlobalIndustries](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MantelGlobalIndustries)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/30 "2021-05-20T22:11:26Z")
When I first read this I must admit I was quite curious and somewhat sceptical as to this Initiative - knowing the actions of your past selves it is not exactly what I would expect from them. My response is admittedly one of concern - knowing how the Brothers of Freedom eventually found their fate I would be extremely careful about establishing an organisation that aims to liberate those within the Caldari State, should they be willing to leave and trusting of this organisation. This is of course thinking for the safety of those involved in facilitating such endeavours, as well as for those that seek an exit from that environment. One would have an immense duty of care to those that would place their trust in your organisation. I would also emphasise that if these individuals do make the journey to the Federation, that their rights as guaranteed under the charter whilst they are in Federation territory would not be infringed - such as the right to freedom of movement and association. I am sure that many will take up the Combine’s generous offer, but at the same time, they need to know that they possess the choice to move elsewhere in the Federation rather than be bound to Unel. The Federation is a land where someone can find their fresh start, or gain their second chance at life. The least we can do is offer all that the Federation can provide without delay or deliberation for those that genuinely seek it. ---
**Author:** ![Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vehaima_zekaarin/32/260875_2.png) [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vehaima_Zekaarin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/31 "2021-05-21T00:41:46Z")
> [@MantelGlobalIndustries](#): > > I am sure that many will take up the Combine’s generous offer, but at the same time, they need to know that they possess the choice to move elsewhere in the Federation rather than be bound to Unel. The choice of the Vaitunen Combine as host for the initiative is in order to provide a culturally appropriate environment for those entering the program of asylum and resettlement within the Federation to be among other Caldari. Those taking part in the initiative are expected to have been indoctrinated by a lifetime of State propaganda and repression which requires both care and time in psychological deprogramming and counseling for which being in familiar cultural norms is conducive to successful integration within the Federation. Those who do not desire settlement within the Vaitunen Combine can of course decide elsewhere of their own volition and support programs aimed at their successful integration in the Federation will remain extended if they so choose to partake in them. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/32 "2021-05-21T12:32:47Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > If any Caldari citizen would entertain the idea of joining a nation as contemptible as the Federation, they should be tried for treason and suffer the appropriate consequences as defined by the tribunal Unlike those noble souls who actually took up arms against the State and assisted a hostile military force in occupying State systems, right? ---
**Author:** ![Sahara\_Jackal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sahara_jackal/32/296697_2.png) [@Sahara\_Jackal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sahara_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/33 "2021-05-22T07:22:03Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Unlike those noble souls who actually took up arms against the State and assisted a hostile military force in occupying State systems, right? Does this mean you wont be attending our Niarja Anniversary Celebration this coming August 18? All of Goonswarm will be there as our celebrated guests of honor! We’re serving liminality margaritas iced with frozen Empire tears. _Refreshing!_ ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/34 "2021-05-22T11:18:31Z")
> [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > The cruelty and violence that underwrite the petty tyranny of the Caldari Megacorporation are so similar I feel no need to make distinctions between them. It does not matter to me the reasons why Caldari corporate management massacre their people, only that I do what I can to spare the lives of the innocent. Oh, sweet Maker! How did I miss this pearl! So, the gurista claims our management “massacres our people” (obviously without any evidences), and wants to transfer them to the Federation, which… ~totally\_not\_massacres\_people\_for\_just\_being\_Caldari\_not\_puts\_them\_into\_explosive\_cells\_not\_rapes\_not\_beats\_them\_etc\_etc~ despite otherwise was proven multiple times? ---
**Author:** ![Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vehaima_zekaarin/32/260875_2.png) [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vehaima_Zekaarin)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/35 "2021-05-22T11:51:39Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > claims our management “massacres our people” Yes. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > wants to transfer them to the Federation Quite so. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/36 "2021-05-22T13:02:18Z")
Not gonna address the reason _why_ that is hysterical? I think Commander Kim raises a very obvious point here. ---
**Author:** ![Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vehaima_zekaarin/32/260875_2.png) [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vehaima_Zekaarin)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/37 "2021-05-22T13:40:53Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > Not gonna address the reason _why_ that is hysterical? I think Commander Kim raises a very obvious point here. From what I can gather as was written here: > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Federation, which… ~totally\_not\_massacres\_people There is nothing in contention on my part. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/38 "2021-05-22T16:38:47Z")
I don’t know why I am even bothering trying to engage in actual dialogue with you, but: The _rest_ of her post makes reference to the continued operation of horrific POW torture camps. These facilities have been operating for over a decade now (at least) and continue to do so. Not only are those held inside subjected to truly horrifying torture and mistreatment, but the facilities themselves are even rigged with explosives as a part of protocol, as to prevent rescues in case of discovery. These aren’t rogue elements. These aren’t actions perpetuated by a corrupt few and disavowed by the Federation. These aren’t isolated incidents under some specific commander. These are official, sanctioned facilities operating under the FIO’s oversight, facilities whose operation have withstood multiple changes in office and haven’t garnered even some acknowledgement by the Gallente. These are multi-level atrocities on a wide, observable scale, all committed by the Federation. _This_ is what Commander Kim was speaking of. How about you learn what sarcasm is and at least _try_ to appear interested in an honest dialogue, you sniveling little rat? ---
**Author:** ![Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vehaima_zekaarin/32/260875_2.png) [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vehaima_Zekaarin)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/39 "2021-05-22T18:48:01Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > These aren’t rogue elements. These aren’t actions perpetuated by a corrupt few and disavowed by the Federation. These aren’t isolated incidents under some specific commander. Having done a parse as to what you might be referring to – the existence of facilities within the territories of the State purported to be that of FIO but which remain easily discovered by simple probe scanner seems farfetched to me. A more likely explanation is that any torture or abuse of prisoners is wholly committed by State authorities and any association to the FIO fabricated in order to deflect blame and attention. While it is unfortunate the State would go to the lengths of abusing their own citizens in the interests of smearing the reputation of the FIO, it is exactly such abuses the New Dawn Initiative is designed to save the Caldari citizen from. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/40 "2021-05-22T20:46:17Z")
> [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > A more likely explanation is that any torture or abuse of prisoners is wholly committed by State authorities and any association to the FIO fabricated in order to deflect blame and attention. > > While it is unfortunate the State would go to the lengths of abusing their own citizens in the interests of smearing the reputation of the FIO, it is exactly such abuses the New Dawn Initiative is designed to save the Caldari citizen from. Too far, Veik. Way too far. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699.md?page=3)