# New Dawn Initiative: Political Asylum for Caldari Citizens **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699 "2021-05-16T00:26:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vehaima_zekaarin/32/260875_2.png) [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vehaima_Zekaarin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/61 "2021-05-24T09:54:23Z")
The New Dawn Initiative is intended as a pathway to freedom for those who languish under the cruel yoke of State corporate oppression and violence. Chief among the persecuted of the State are its unknown multitudes of non-citizens euphemistically designated by corporate regimes as the, “Disassociated”. Declared _persona non grata_ among their own people, stripped of all rights and legal protections by a State who reject their own people they are forced into a deplorable existence on the margins of society. Living in abject poverty forced upon them by Caldari corporations they are forced into a life of exploitation and servitude to labour in jobs deemed too menial or dangerous for their once fellow citizens. No one should be forced into a life of meagre subsistence as the modern serfs of corporate overlords who profit from their callous indenture. The New Dawn Initiative desires to break the chains of their bondage and break the cycle of poverty and abuse by allowing them a new life in the Federation and within a society that will grant them inviolate rights to their pursuit of happiness and the Gallentean dream of human progress. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/62 "2021-05-24T12:16:59Z")
Is that really the best you got? The disassociated? A vanishingly small minority of anomalous citizens, many of which continue their employment under different circumstances? I don’t know where you are getting all this from: > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > Declared _persona non grata_ among their own people, stripped of all rights and legal protections by a State who reject their own people they are forced into a deplorable existence on the margins of society. Living in abject poverty forced upon them by Caldari corporations they are forced into a life of exploitation and servitude to labour in jobs deemed too menial or dangerous for their once fellow citizens. Because it is all completely false, but seeing as this is a running theme with your horribly written propaganda, I suppose I can’t be too surprised. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > The New Dawn Initiative desires to break the chains of their bondage and break the cycle of poverty and abuse by allowing them a new life in the Federation and within a society that will grant them inviolate rights to their pursuit of happiness and the Gallentean dream of human progress. I don’t get why you keep trying this approach. You do understand absolutely no-one is buying it, right? The only ones that would support you are already feds, which I am guessing are not your target demographic. We know what you are. We know what you have done. We can see through your lies. ---
**Author:** ![Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vehaima_zekaarin/32/260875_2.png) [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vehaima_Zekaarin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/63 "2021-05-24T13:10:54Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > The disassociated? A vanishingly small minority of anomalous citizens, many of which continue their employment under different circumstances? Indeed the persecuted minorities of the State are the target demographic of the New Dawn Initiative. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/64 "2021-05-24T13:31:42Z")
> [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > the New Eden Initiative. Forgetting the name of your own initiative? Really shows how deeply you care about all this and how much it is not a horribly disguised attempt to spew the federation’s drivel all over. Just log off at this point, you are being a huge embarrassment for everyone involved. ---
**Author:** ![Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vehaima_zekaarin/32/260875_2.png) [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vehaima_Zekaarin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/65 "2021-05-24T13:48:51Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > Forgetting the name of your own initiative? The foibles of Neocom auto-correct. Cheers on the catch, it has been amended. Although while careless of me in terms of spelling, I feel it is no correlation to the true depths of my feelings of care and concern towards the disenfranchised of the Caldari State which remain immense. Truly, I am privileged to be in a position to help them through my program. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/67 "2021-05-24T15:04:24Z")
If a Caldari wishes to leave for the Federation, it is likely that both nations will see an increase in productivity. Win win ---
**Author:** ![Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auriga_menkalinan/32/351666_2.png) [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auriga_Menkalinan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/68 "2021-05-24T15:44:13Z")
> [@Tanagura\_Amoii](#): > > Win-win. > [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](#): > > Win win > [@MantelGlobalIndustries](#): > > The least we can do is offer all that the Federation can provide That’s what I assumed too. Many paths most worth following involve swallowing prejudice and pursuing uncomfortable collaborations. I understand that some people don’t like the Federation or Mlle Zekaarin but the idea itself doesn’t seem so bad. What is all this vitriol achieving, other than further harm? > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > revolting > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > I was just trying to be hurtful > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > filth > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > a waste of biomass and oxygen > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > absolute ■■■■■■■ scum ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/69 "2021-05-24T16:21:21Z")
What I am seeing is every Caldari voice in this thread speaking out against this blatant lie and calling those that wish to force this transparent destabilizing nonsense what they rightfully are. What I am seeing is every Gallente voice in this thread denying atrocities, denying evidence and, in fact, trying to pin them on the State. What I am seeing is Gurista scum that wished destruction upon the State fail at pretending to have had a sudden change of heart, left her mass murdering ways behind and now playing the humanitarian. You make me _sick_. Accepting this malicious campaign is to accept that the State is somehow guilty of all those libelous charges, it is to accept that a regime of terror that routinely tries to dismantle the State and subjugate its people is somehow ‘a better place’. Luckily, as I stated earlier, it seems that the only people in support of this sad joke of a movement are the malefactors that stand to benefit from it. I am confident that every single citizen of the State can see this hypocrisy for what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/70 "2021-05-24T16:33:59Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > I am confident that every single citizen of the State can see this hypocrisy for what it is. And if they do not, they will probably be better off far far away. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/71 "2021-05-24T16:37:34Z")
> [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > I understand that some people don’t like the Federation or Mlle Zekaarin but the idea itself doesn’t seem so bad. What is all this vitriol achieving, other than further harm? “Doesn’t seem so bad”, you surely are joking! As for what the cause of the vitriol, you should have read the discussion and see what exactly caused that before jumping in. No, I mean, really nobody can know everything, for sure, but jumping into discussion to make conclusion about something without actually checking the information that was available in the open - that’s, excuse me, crying ignorance. For example, the topic starter was blaming the State in “massacring” own citizens without any evidences, while on the other hand was denying massacre of State citizens by the Federation and torture of POWs, which doesn’t simply has multiple evidences, but actually can be verified by every capsuleer with minimal set of skills. That sort of behavior for sure deserves all the vitriol she can get. If the person can’t be argued with logic, why not shove it back where it crawled from with some heavy dose of vitriol, eh? Then… calling the State “regime”, “maniacal”, “mass murdering”… cmon. With the same degree you can pull out a random psycho from the asylum, present them to audience of people, and tell that their paranoidal ravings are “ideas that don’t seem so bad”! ---
**Author:** ![Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auriga_menkalinan/32/351666_2.png) [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auriga_Menkalinan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/72 "2021-05-24T16:47:18Z")
Neither of you have answered my question. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/73 "2021-05-24T16:47:21Z")
So-- a concern, Mr. Menkalinan. The author of all this, known originally as one Veikitamo Gesakaarin, has worn, shall we say, a lot of hats. I didn’t actually realize this at the time but she was in fact the founder of the mercenary corp I first met her in, though no longer its leader. She spent quite a while (like, years) “undercover” as a KK Patriot (or perhaps more accurately Provist), in which role she was conspicuously and needlessly violent, boasting about purposely shooting for crew compartments and aiming to disable escape pods before a kill. This was a boast made while active in the Amarr/Minmatar war zone, mind you, so it can’t even be justified as over-the-top “grr I hate Gallente” -ness. It was attention-grabbing in exactly the way you would NOT want if you were undercover. The only explanation I could, or can, come up with is that she did it because she liked it. Since then, she’s tried on a lot of other hats-- various manifestations of consultant and businesswoman, Gurista partisan, and now apparently Federal sympathizer, which would be less disturbing if she didn’t switch hats every couple months while active. A somewhat predictable pattern has emerged over time, where she proudly and very publicly adopts a certain role and position before undercutting that position by displaying a total lack of understanding of and interest in the nuances of her position. Her blanket denial of Federal atrocities is typical. Veik has proudly and repeatedly self-identified as a psychopath, and I recommend taking the designation seriously. It’s the one aspect of her self-presentation I am nearly certain is consistently correct. The rest is a sort of shattered puzzle-box of glass, mirrors, and fog, and I’m not sure it’s solvable any more if it ever was. Mostly what I’m sure of is that if you try to discover the truth or if you rely on appearances in any way you are likely to get hurt. This might, possibly, be a worthwhile initiative if someone else ran it. As it stands, it’s one more example of Veik making a game attempt at appearing to be a warm and caring human being which she then proceeds to ruin by doing stuff like denying wartime atrocities. As for the realities on the ground, maybe it’s changed since I lived in the State, but traditionally those who wish to go are free to do so. Dissidents, “_jaalan_,” do suffer somewhat, usually having some trouble finding work and such rather than, like, getting shot at, but their power comes from their willingness to stay regardless. They’re tolerated and even somewhat grudgingly respected. Generally their detractors are more than happy to see them go, since leaving effectively silences them. Those who surrender their place in the State lose also their voice. But, not everyone should be forced to be a hero. I just don’t think leaving the State is actually very difficult to do, and with Veik at its head this seems likely to be at best a well-intentioned effort that’ll barely be remembered, never mind operational, in four months. “Protecting The Innocent” isn’t historically something Veik more than toys with caring about. ---
**Author:** ![Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auriga_menkalinan/32/351666_2.png) [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auriga_Menkalinan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/74 "2021-05-24T16:50:07Z")
Thank you for the coherent explanation. So it’s not the proposal but it’s sponsor, of whom I’ve never heard? Edit: I still don’t see how much of the language used does anything other than reduce the likelihood of a genuine offer of help. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/75 "2021-05-24T16:52:25Z")
> [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > So it’s not the proposal but it’s sponsor, of whom I’ve never heard? Hang around a while, sir, and you’ll hear of, or from, her pretty often. “Veikitamo Gesakaarin.” Try a search. She’s not shy. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/76 "2021-05-24T16:56:43Z")
> [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > Neither of you have answered my question. I believe I gave rather a clear answer. > [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > What is all this vitriol achieving, other than further harm? > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > If the person can’t be argued with logic, why not shove it back where it crawled from with some heavy dose of vitriol, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auriga_menkalinan/32/351666_2.png) [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auriga_Menkalinan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/77 "2021-05-24T17:02:27Z")
Why not? Perhaps because it alienates more genuine offers of help. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/78 "2021-05-24T17:06:15Z")
> [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > So it’s not the proposal but it’s sponsor, of whom I’ve never heard? There are also some on these boards who will violently and vitriolically oppose anything involving the Federation that is not ‘kill them all’. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/79 "2021-05-24T17:08:47Z")
> [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > Edit: I still don’t see how much of the language used does anything other than reduce the likelihood of a genuine offer of help. So-- to be clear, my concerns are probably distinct from those of Ms. Malitia (whose ongoing … let’s kindly call it _concern_ … for her betrayed home is a little …) or Ms. Kim. Veik and I have history, not all of it necessarily bad. She actually is the last person to reply to me in the Thread of Kind Words; she complimented my firm moral sensibility, which impressed me a little since it’s usually the source of our clashes. The thrust of my argument is less that helping people who want to leave the State is bad; I’m not sure there are really a lot of Caldari who would argue that. I understand the popular view is, “If they want to leave, let them.” It’s more that Veik is actually a lot like Ms. Tsukiyo: if you see her doing something, odds are she’s dabbling (and as with Ms. Tsukiyo I can’t fault her curiosity-- she’s tried a LOT of hats). She’s trying something out, experimenting with a viewpoint. But, rely on her or otherwise get involved and you’re apt to find yourself clutching a fistful of broken glass. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/80 "2021-05-24T17:09:34Z")
> [@Auriga\_Menkalinan](#): > > So it’s not the proposal but it’s sponsor, of whom I’ve never heard? I understand Ms. Jenneth position, which surely doesn’t lack any merit. On the other hand, I prefer to deal with what and not whom (although I do the latter as much as I do the former), my own vitriol was targeted against antics of the named person rather than the person itself, which I certainly could have done as well - but with what’s going on, it surely would be an excess already. Besides the person and antics of the said person in this exact thread, the proposal itself is based on the wrong premises, the core of this idea is taking citizens from under authority under pretense that the authority tortures them - and transfer said citizens to the different authority that tortures them for real, while denying these tortures. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699/81 "2021-05-24T17:17:13Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > The thrust of my argument is less that helping people who want to leave the State is bad; I’m not sure there are really a lot of Caldari who would argue that. I understand the popular view is, “If they want to leave, let them.” Assuming the State forces people to stay is just an insult to the State as a whole and to all who are Caldari. Our corporations are built on the principle, that they provide opportunities to people, so people will want to join and stay with Corporations, and those who don’t want… can just go and do whatever they want wherever they want. Citizens fight and struggle to get into Corporations, to stay within Corporations, not to run away. For, probably, one of the worst punishments for Citizen is being fired and exiled. The serious issue in here is - it’s an attempt of a pirate pilot to kidnap citizens, which is filled by rather primitive and unreasonable gallente-like propaganda. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-dawn-initiative-political-asylum-for-caldari-citizens/311699.md?page=5)