# New Eden Industry Strike! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 3, 2020, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636 "2020-09-03T11:18:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Serene\_Repose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/serene_repose/32/384960_2.png) [@Serene\_Repose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Serene_Repose)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/360 "2020-09-07T15:53:07Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > your whiny carebear ass Oh my! Your text is so…very droll. This isn’t real life kids. Your market activity can go untouched for months and you won’t be “losing” anything. Or, are you that heavily indoctrinated…you need to be decompressed before rational discussion. care bear ass…what a hoot. That was so…_whatever_ to read! ---
**Author:** ![KalAshAman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalashaman/32/169209_2.png) [@KalAshAman](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KalAshAman)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/361 "2020-09-07T16:32:12Z")
A bit more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/362 "2020-09-07T16:35:12Z")
> [@KalAshAman](#): > > A bit more than that It’d be pretty cool if OP would specify then. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/363 "2020-09-07T18:09:36Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > > This book develops an original theory of group and organizational behavior that cuts across disciplinary lines and illustrates the theory with empirical and historical studies of particular organizations. Applying economic analysis to the subjects of the political scientist, sociologist, and economist, **Mancur Olson** examines the extent to which the individuals that share a common interest find it in their individual interest to bear the costs of the organizational effort. > > > > The theory shows that most organizations produce what the economist calls “public goods”—goods or services that are available to every member, whether or not he has borne any of the costs of providing them. Economists have long understood that defense, law, and order were public goods that could not be marketed to individuals, and that taxation was necessary. They have not, however, taken account of the fact that private as well as governmental organizations produce public goods. > > > > _The services the labor union provides for the worker it represents, or the benefits a lobby obtains for the group it represents, are public goods: they automatically go to every individual in the group, whether or not he helped bear the costs. It follows that, just as governments require compulsory taxation, many large private organizations require special (and sometimes coercive) devices to obtain the resources they need._ This is not true of smaller organizations for, as this book shows, small and large organizations support themselves in entirely different ways. The theory indicates that, though small groups can act to further their interest much more easily than large ones, they will tend to devote too few resources to the satisfaction of their common interests, and that there is a surprising tendency for the “lesser” members of the small group to exploit the “greater” members by making them bear a disproportionate share of the burden of any group action. > > > > All of the theory in the book is in Chapter 1; the remaining chapters contain empirical and historical evidence of the theory’s relevance to labor unions, pressure groups, corporations, and Marxian class action. > > This is why your silly strike will fail. Nobody is going to follow it. Nobody. In fact, my guess is 99.8% of HS won’t even know about it because they don’t even know the forums exist, let alone your ridiculous post. You might as well go bang your head on a brick wall…you’ll feel much better afterwards than you would from trying to get HS people to do anything, even if it is in their own best interest. As you can see in my prior post : > [@bluelysian](#): > > i do agree that this strike will not work … Because small indy corporations are mostly the ones who dont want to engage null sec esp high sec ones or even some WH and low sec variations … they are not interested be part of high hive mind… and prefer to be in small groups . > > Same pattern you can see small pirate low sec corporations too… these kind of organisations never be capable to become organised … As result of their perspective … their play style… therefor they cannot be presented even in the CSM or form up a great defence fleets and cooperate… BUt i only agree about the result that in fact yes it will not work.. But not the reasoning you represented there because if you read the critics to the book you have quoted : Olson’s original logic of collective action has received several critiques, based either on a different interpretation of the observations on minority interest representation, or on a disagreement on the degree of concentrated interest representation. ### Information asymmetry[[edit](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Logic_of_Collective_Action&action=edit§ion=3)] Susanne Lohmann agrees with puzzling observations made by Olson, which she classifies as economic and political puzzles. Economic puzzles are cases of general welfare loss in favour of a minority benefit which is smaller in sum. An example she gives is a quota on sugar imports in the United States, which generates 2261 jobs at the expense of a general welfare reduction of $1,162 million (Hufbauer and Elliot, 1994). Then the implicit price for a job in the sugar industry is above $500,000, allowing for significant room for [Pareto improvement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_improvement). Political puzzles are cases where minority trumps majority. An example she gives is the rural bias in urbanized countries, such as the [Common Agricultural Policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_Policy) in the European Union. Lohmann claims that Olson’s [free-rider problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem) is insufficient to explain these puzzles. Instead, she argues they are due to uncertainty ([information asymmetry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry) among actors) when special interest groups evaluate how political actors promote their interests. She states that everyone can be considered a special interest. Because everyone is (relatively) sure how well their interests are represented, they give more weight to their interest representation when evaluating political actors than to the general benefit. Lohmann argues that it could be politically viable to focus on separate narrow interests at the expense of general benefits. ### Legitimacy[[edit](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Logic_of_Collective_Action&action=edit§ion=4)] Gunnar Trumbull rejects the observation by Olson and Lohmann that concentrated interests dominate public policy. He points out that historically, diffuse interests nearly always found ways to be represented in public policy, such as the interests of retirees, patients or consumers. Trumbull explains this with the role of legitimacy of interest groups that promote policies. He argues that diffuse interests have a legitimacy premium when they manage to mobilize, while concentrated interests are viewed with suspicion. He describes the concept of legitimacy coalitions, which are coalitions between state policymakers, social activists or industry to promote certain policy. By having to form a coalition, the interests are more broadly represented. An example of such a coalition is the post-war neo-corporatist system. ### Critical Mass[[edit](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Logic_of_Collective_Action&action=edit§ion=5)] Marwell and Oliver [[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_of_Collective_Action#cite_note-1) use mathematical and computational models to show that a number of the assumptions made by Olson are unrealistic, and if they are relaxed, the behavior of a system of rational agents changes dramatically. One assumption is that the “production function” of goods is linear. If this function instead accelerates, then a [critical mass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_mass_(sociodynamics)) of early contributors can encourage a large number of others to contribute. Another assumption is that the cost of the good is a function of the size of the group that would benefit from it. For many public goods, this is not true, and Marwell and Oliver show that when the interest group is larger, there is a larger chance that it will include someone for whom it is rational to provide the good, either in part or in full. you can see that its off for real life and its EVEN MORE OFF if you pan this evaluation on top of The EvE ECO SYSTEM… I have asked CCP directly that if they know how their players base activity lvl in order to security zones / areas in eve online with all alt accounts ect.. and also numbers of their major activities /side activities combined .. They dont have these numbers .. Assuming indy players as a minority is great mistake.. they just scattered all around. and the reason this thing fail inEvE online is more lie under the reasons i had explained up there bit more simple way.. What i dont like is… > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > This is why your silly strike will fail respectless > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Nobody. In fact, my guess is 99.8% of HS won’t even know about it because they don’t even know the forums exist, let alone your ridiculous post. he has right to post here . might be ridicuouls for you.. and you explained already very fine way.. no need for intimidation. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > You might as well go bang your head on a brick wall…you’ll feel much better afterwards than you would from trying to get HS people to do anything, even if it is in their own best interest. unfortunately my friend and sadly …yes you are right!. and im sory for that. this is a game .. if people dont like they will leave.. its not real life activity engaged to bread for life.. So build up enough motivation to change things and lead to great revolution.. slim chance.. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/364 "2020-09-07T21:33:51Z")
Keep ignoring the elephant in the room. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/365 "2020-09-07T21:35:55Z")
So like, is this happening tomorrow, or the day after? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/366 "2020-09-08T00:18:34Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > Assuming indy players as a minority is great mistake… Nobody is assuming that industry players are a minority. We’re assuming that _industrial players dumb enough to go along with a strike_ are a minority. ---
**Author:** ![Serene\_Repose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/serene_repose/32/384960_2.png) [@Serene\_Repose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Serene_Repose)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 3:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/367 "2020-09-08T03:29:07Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Keep ignoring the elephant in the room. We try. You won’t let us. ---
**Author:** ![Serene\_Repose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/serene_repose/32/384960_2.png) [@Serene\_Repose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Serene_Repose)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/368 "2020-09-08T03:31:31Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > this is a game … if people dont like they will leave… its not real life activity engaged to bread for life That being said, _you take hogwash to an entirely new dimension._ The internet groans under the weight of that post which essentially said nothing but for a rehash of the owner cult’s philosophy of capitalism. ---
**Author:** ![Derlin\_Fishen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derlin_fishen/32/477895_2.png) [@Derlin\_Fishen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Derlin_Fishen)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/369 "2020-09-08T03:42:33Z")
Please go in strike. My T2 mining ships have been languishing on the market because I refuse to sell them below cost. ---
**Author:** ![Ashterothi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ashterothi/32/459299_2.png) [@Ashterothi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ashterothi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 4:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/371 "2020-09-08T04:11:50Z")
On behalf of the Convocation of Empyreans, Baseliner Liberation Front, and the Kybernaut Clade: go getum, tiger! ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 5:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/372 "2020-09-08T05:30:13Z")
![istockphoto-635931560-170667a](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/9/69b6c239fb0a1d29f83754016dc36b0ab4e8097b.png) ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/373 "2020-09-08T19:16:35Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > > [@KalAshAman](#): > > > > A bit more than that > > It’d be pretty cool if OP would specify then. I’m going to name my goldfish Scoots Choco. I hear the past doesn’t exist for them either. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/374 "2020-09-08T20:01:12Z")
So… is this thing happening or what? > [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > I hear the past doesn’t exist for them either. Your definition of “poor” and mine don’t match up. It’d be nice if there were some common ground. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/375 "2020-09-08T20:06:09Z")
The words appear to be English. Which is a good first step. Now maybe you could try rearranging them until they make some sense. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/376 "2020-09-08T20:09:08Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > The words appear to be English. Which is a good first step. Sigh, since we’re gonna do this. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/8/f83477524b830d492c13ac12709377d7794a2c9e.png) I own the equivalent of your entire hangar of ships in _just_ Gila blueprints **alone**. Your definition of “poor” and my definition of “poor” do not match up. Edit: before someone asks, no I’m not selling them. at least not until i max it out to 1,000. [I did this with Phantasms last year.](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/sold-1-000-phantasm-bpcs/177872) ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/378 "2020-09-08T20:52:15Z")
Cool, but what does it have to do with my goldfish? You’re making no sense. Still. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/379 "2020-09-08T20:57:09Z")
Our hoards of material trinkets might exceed whatever he has in his respectable stock, but neither of us will **ever** beat the wealth of his moral character. He truly is the King of Kings. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/382 "2020-09-08T21:39:31Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > Cool, but what does it have to do with my goldfish? The fundamental difference here is that what _you_ think is “poor” and what I think is “poor” are not the same. Similarly, what you considered to be “small indies” that OP refers to and what I consider to be “small indies” are also not the same. If we have such a fundamental difference in what these words mean, there will never be any meaningful discussion, especially if one party will conveniently move goalposts and change their personal subjective idea of what “poor” or “small indy” means during the course of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Buldath](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_buldath/32/381437_2.png) [@ISD\_Buldath](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Buldath)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636/389 "2020-09-09T00:05:31Z")
8 posts removed. **1. Specifically restricted conduct.** > The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to courteous when disagreeing with others. > > In order to maintain an environment where everyone is welcome and discussion flows freely, certain types of conduct are prohibited on the EVE Online forums. These are: > > Trolling > Flaming > Ranting > Personal Attacks > Harassment > Doxxing > Racism & Discrimination > Hate Speech > Sexism > Spamming > Bumping > Off-Topic Posting > Pyramid Quoting > Rumor Mongering > New Player Bashing > Impersonation > Advertising [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-eden-industry-strike/264636.md?page=18)